Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch From Mercury - Anime Episode Discussion

[Sides]

Hanger 78 ^_^
I wasn't a big fan of this gundam incarnation until the last scene in S1. Honeslty could not stop laughing, it was brilliant. The whole S1 feels really just a set up for S2. Hopefully we get less fluffy stuff in S2 and more war drama.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Dextro

The whole point was to show how casually Suletta took the idea of killing someone who was threatening someone she cares about and how that flies in the face of what Minore (and, frankly, most normal people) finds normal.

Again, Miorine was literally one half second away from being riddled with bullets. Yeah, she is freaked out now by all the blood (I wonder if she'll be able to handle her tomatoes again...), but when she calms down, she should see that Suletta saved not only her but her dad as well. If we get a long-term split due to this, I will be disappointed in the writers.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Again, Miorine was literally one half second away from being riddled with bullets. Yeah, she is freaked out now by all the blood (I wonder if she'll be able to handle her tomatoes again...), but when she calms down, she should see that Suletta saved not only her but her dad as well. If we get a long-term split due to this, I will be disappointed in the writers.

The "killing to save" part is like the least of the concerns IMO. What's more disturbing is the fact that Suletta acted so carefree, cheery & smiley afterwards like all the blood & body parts weren't even there. That is not a normal behavior. Even the most battle-hardened Setsuna didn't act that way. The only comparison to Suletta now is Heero...

Spoiler for very minor spoiler for Gundam Wing episode 1:

cackling like a lunatic after killing OZ grunts in episode 1 of Gundam Wing.

YouTube

https://youtu.be/R29g6YObKLE

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[ryllharu]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

The "killing to save" part is like the least of the concerns IMO. What's more disturbing is the fact that Suletta acted so carefree, cheery & smiley afterwards like all the blood & body parts weren't even there. That is not a normal behavior. Even the most battle-hardened Setsuna didn't act that way. The only comparison to Suletta now is Heero...

I wouldn't say she's enthusiastically enjoying killing suddenly, but the fact that she slips in the gore she just created and acts like nothing is the matter, as the blood seeps off of her hands in low-G like an eldritch horror.

"Tee hee, I'm a such klutz sometimes, I'm here to pick you up! "

The yandere comparisons are kinda there.

Suletta acts like death is just a matter of fact, and Miorine is very sheltered by comparison. Most of Earth House probably wouldn't react quite as negatively as Miorine did.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

The "killing to save" part is like the least of the concerns IMO. What's more disturbing is the fact that Suletta acted so carefree, cheery & smiley afterwards like all the blood & body parts weren't even there. That is not a normal behavior.

That, admittedly, was the strange part about all of it, because just before she was scared of hurting people. I can see how people think Prospera brainwashed her somehow or activated a protocol, but the scene between Suletta and Prospera didn't read like that to me. Hence, her being so carefree about doing it in that incredibly gory way so far rather reads like a writing mistake to me, in terms of either being badly foreshadowed in this episode or the series so far or just mishandled. They very deliberately wanted the cour to end on this gruesome scene, but it just came kinda out of nowhere, given what happened before in the episode.

Yes, Prospera convinced Suletta that hurting someone to save her friends is okay... but unless Suletta is already very used to gore and blood due to her upbringing on Mercury (and I don't really see that, given that we already had some sort of written entry on her time there), her being so cavalier about it that she extends her hand to Miorine while it is slathered in gore seems very off to me.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dextro

That would be the traditional way to do this but it would diminish the impact of the scene. The whole point was to show how casually Suletta took the idea of killing someone who was threatening someone she cares about and how that flies in the face of what Minore (and, frankly, most normal people) finds normal.

But a few minutes earlier Suletta was just as freaked out. There's something wrong.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

That, admittedly, was the strange part about all of it, because just before she was scared of hurting people. I can see how people think Prospera brainwashed her somehow or activated a protocol, but the scene between Suletta and Prospera didn't read like that to me. Hence, her being so carefree about doing it in that incredibly gory way so far rather reads like a writing mistake to me, in terms of either being badly foreshadowed in this episode or the series so far or just mishandled. They very deliberately wanted the cour to end on this gruesome scene, but it just came kinda out of nowhere, given what happened before in the episode.

Yes, Prospera convinced Suletta that hurting someone to save her friends is okay... but unless Suletta is already very used to gore and blood due to her upbringing on Mercury (and I don't really see that, given that we already had some sort of written entry on her time there), her being so cavalier about it that she extends her hand to Miorine while it is slathered in gore seems very off to me.

That's why some people suggested that maybe Prospera has inserted some kind of "protocol" in Suletta or heavily indoctrinated her to do whatever Prospera tell Suletta. The method can be through something soft like the conversation that Prospera did in this episode.

If you noticed back in episode 8 when Prospera brushed off why she's lying to Suletta about Aerial all this time, Suletta's eyes when she said that she believed Prospera seemed to look like someone who was hypnotized or twisted. And those same disturbing eyes of Suletta appeared again in this episode after she had a convo with Prospera in the hallway with bodies beside her & in the after-credit scene when Sule acted like the pool of blood wasn't even there.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Dextro

That would be the traditional way to do this but it would diminish the impact of the scene. The whole point was to show how casually Suletta took the idea of killing someone who was threatening someone she cares about and how that flies in the face of what Minore (and, frankly, most normal people) finds normal.

That scene, more than anything else these last two episodes, has massive implications for the second cour. And that's considering that we had: Guel watching his dad die by his own hands, Nika being outed as having a connection with the Earth terrorists and Lady Prospera being in cahoots with Minorine's father.

There's so many questions left to answer still. I can't wait to see how season 2 goes. Will we have a Valvrave Season 2 or a Code Geass R2? Hopefully the latter

I think the best part was Suletta making a cute Suletta noise like she was swatting away a fly instead of a human being .

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Again, Miorine was literally one half second away from being riddled with bullets. Yeah, she is freaked out now by all the blood (I wonder if she'll be able to handle her tomatoes again...), but when she calms down, she should see that Suletta saved not only her but her dad as well. If we get a long-term split due to this, I will be disappointed in the writers.

Obelisk said it: what's wrong is not the killing, it's Suletta's reaction to it. She was just too carefree in her reaction. It was as if she had just squashed a mosquitto. It would freak any reasonable person out.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

But a few minutes earlier Suletta was just as freaked out. There's something wrong.

Clearly Suletta isn't 100% there. I'm going to chalk it up to her having unwavering faith in Prospera as her mother and having grown up very sheltered and very detached from normal societal values. The person she trusts most of all in the universe told her it's ok to kill people who endanger the ones she loves, so she took that and rationalized what happened. It is freaky and it is insane: I imagine that's the point.

[Frontier]

Now that I'm thinking about it, did she have to completely smush him? Couldn't she have just blocked the bullets with the Aerial's finger? Or maybe like flick him away? I guess she just moved quickly.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

That's why some people suggested that maybe Prospera has inserted some kind of "protocol" in Suletta or heavily indoctrinated her to do whatever Prospera tell Suletta. The method can be through something soft like the conversation that Prospera did in this episode.

If you noticed back in episode 8 when Prospera brushed off why she's lying to Suletta about Aerial all this time, Suletta's eyes when she said that she believed Prospera seemed to look like someone who was hypnotized or twisted. And those same disturbing eyes of Suletta appeared again in this episode after she had a convo with Prospera in the hallway with bodies beside her & in the after-credit scene when Sule acted like the pool of blood wasn't even there.

I'll go with just classic Pavlovian conditioning since the show already has a reference to Pavlov: Bob's ship name.

But in that scene it was more cognitive dissonance: her brains wasn't registering the blood/dead guy, she focused on the "I saved Mio" and ignored the rest.

Also, I've seen an image that juxtapose Prospera's extending her hand to Suletta to stand-up to in this ep to the scene of Suletta extending her hand to Mio at the end. It's like Suletta was just mimicking the actions.

Really, Suletta is a little kid mentally who worship/idolize her mother. Everything mom does is what she should do. She has cognitive dissonance whiplash in every episode after she talks to her mom face to face as a result since her belief of what her mom wants her to do (behave like a good person) and what her mom actually does (lying, manipulating, killing) contradict each others.

[kuroyanagi]

To add to this, Ichinose Kana mentions in the newest Majo-raji that for the C part, she was instructed to "do it comically, since that'll make it scarier." So at the very least, it seems the directorial intent was to have the viewers freak out with Miorine

Lynn also mentions she felt like Suletta's lines toward that mob terrorist felt off, like she was scolding/disciplining him, rather than fighting. Now that I think about it, the things she said towards Sophie ("didn't your mother teach you...") sound like that too. Makes me wonder if she really, truly realized what she was doing. In that context, Miorine's last line may have been the exact thing that was needed to bring her back to reality.

[FlareKnight]

I suppose Guel can probably disagree with Suletta's catchphrase at this point. By trying to do something about the situation he was in, it just dragged him into a life or death fight with his father. Credit to him for both winning that fight and trying not to fight back until he had no other choice. That's just the way it goes. And honestly his father would have definitely been killed by someone along the way anyways. Not that it's much comfort.

Nika probably won't be able to come up with a great excuse on the spot. But she might be able to. Can always say she realized the attackers were from Earth and sent a communication through morse code (or whatever they might use) to say they are also from Earth and not enemies. She doesn't have to admit everything.

Umm...solid method by Suletta at stopping Miorine from being shot. That did work. Could have just put herself between him and her. But I suppose ricochets could be a concern...I suppose if she made a decision to kill to protect the things she cares about then no point hesitating over the opponent not having a mobile suit. Seriously did her mother actively brainwash her? Even if she committed to moving ahead it's a bit jarring that she was suddenly unmoved by the blood and death to that degree.

Guess we'll see in season 2. I do wish this was likely to get a full Gundam series length. But 2-cours will just have to do.

Originally Posted by Frontier

Now that I'm thinking about it, did she have to completely smush him? Couldn't she have just blocked the bullets with the Aerial's finger? Or maybe like flick him away? I guess she just moved quickly.

I thought the same. Since she slammed faster than he could shoot I can't imagine she couldn't have moved Aerial's hand in the way. Looking at the scene again, I can't imagine she was thinking on some higher level and worrying about ricochets or a shot getting through the gaps between the fingers or something. It really was just like chiding a naughty child or I guess...swatting a mosquito.

[Decel]

Interesting take on the brain conditioning talk. If anything, I think it's the phrase "If you run, you gain one. If you move forward, you gain two." that already pumps up her determination. It might have an extended effect when her mother recites it.

Edit: Forgot to read the previous pages...

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by frubam

We sure about this? I don't remember the specific details, but my memory is telling me it got the impression that they are "siblings"(orphanage perhaps), or maybe indebted is the better word, and that she's willing to do, well, maybe not "whatever", but a lot if Shaddiq needed it.

What makes me think Nika is mostly in the dark about everything is that she didn't recognize Sophie's Gundam. She only deduced she was an Earthian because she was using bullets. Someone deeply involved would have known everything.

Originally Posted by quagmire

Her immediate reaction after the squash is probably just happy Mio was safe. It hasn't fully processed what's under Aerial's hand just yet. And of course she is also convinced it wasn't wrong to kill in for the sake of protecting others. Yes Mio's perspective it is completely weird and turn off'ish. First time she ever seen someone get killed in front of her eyes and in that brutal manner. And see Suletta react to it as no big deal.....

She didn't just act like it wasn't a big deal. She slipped in the guys' blood and laughed it off. IMO she is definitely being brainwashed, this isn't the first hint we've gotten. Suletta usually displays normal reactions to her surroundings, I don't see why she'd be happily squashing people just because her mother told her it's ok to kill. Her reaction was NOT normal, and can't just be hand-waved as her being socially stunted.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I suppose Guel can probably disagree with Suletta's catchphrase at this point. By trying to do something about the situation he was in, it just dragged him into a life or death fight with his father.

I really hope we don't see some situation where both Guel and Miorine become embittered at Suletta.

Nika probably won't be able to come up with a great excuse on the spot. But she might be able to. Can always say she realized the attackers were from Earth and sent a communication through morse code (or whatever they might use) to say they are also from Earth and not enemies. She doesn't have to admit everything.

I think this is what will happen, only Martin and the rest of Earth House will become progressively more suspicious of her and by extension, Shaddiq.

Originally Posted by Kanon

What makes me think Nika is mostly in the dark about everything is that she didn't recognize Sophie's Gundam. She only deduced she was an Earthian because she was using bullets. Someone deeply involved would have known everything.

The Gundam could have been something they got fairly recently and she might not know about. Shaddiq did made it sound like Nika was close to the leader.

Nika deduced it was Earthians but not Dawn of Fold in particular. Does this mean that there are particular codes used widely in the underground resistance scene on Earth so she could be sure it would be received?

It's interesting that we don't know exactly how involved Nika is.

[Frontier]

I feel like the last scene of the OP was foreshadowing the conflict between Suletta and Miorine. It ends on Suletta and Aerial standing proudly together confidently in front of Miorine but she tearfully turns away from them. Almost like there's a part of Suletta that she can't accept.

It seems like Delling got his survivalist policy from his wife, but would she have approved of how he ended up treating their daughter after said survival?

After Aerial's upgrade I wonder if there's anything that can beat Suletta/Aerial now. It can go to Permet 6 which is higher than any other Gundam pilot and it felt like she wasn't in that much danger from the Earth Witches.

Prospera calls Suletta "that girl/child." Is that really what a mother would call their child? It felt so clinical .

Does Lauda take over Jeturk industries or does Guel get foisted into it as the heir apparent? He's probably too emotionally broken for it.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I suppose Guel can probably disagree with Suletta's catchphrase at this point. By trying to do something about the situation he was in, it just dragged him into a life or death fight with his father. Credit to him for both winning that fight and trying not to fight back until he had no other choice. That's just the way it goes. And honestly his father would have definitely been killed by someone along the way anyways. Not that it's much comfort.

The irony that Guel finally wins a fight and it's in the worst way possible, but still continuing the trend that every time he tries to be a hero or do something it ends up screwing him over. Even before he killed his dad he wasn't some noble, heroic, pilot he was a kid desperate not to die.

It's rough being Guel .

Nika probably won't be able to come up with a great excuse on the spot. But she might be able to. Can always say she realized the attackers were from Earth and sent a communication through morse code (or whatever they might use) to say they are also from Earth and not enemies. She doesn't have to admit everything.

My first assumption was honestly that she'd use morse code to tell the Gundam that they were non-combatants, but whether they believer her or not is another story .

Umm...solid method by Suletta at stopping Miorine from being shot. That did work. Could have just put herself between him and her. But I suppose ricochets could be a concern...I suppose if she made a decision to kill to protect the things she cares about then no point hesitating over the opponent not having a mobile suit. Seriously did her mother actively brainwash her? Even if she committed to moving ahead it's a bit jarring that she was suddenly unmoved by the blood and death to that degree.

It's kind of funny in a morbid way to think that Suletta slapped that dude like she slapped Guel in episode 1. All for Miorine's sake .

Guess we'll see in season 2. I do wish this was likely to get a full Gundam series length. But 2-cours will just have to do.

I wonder if they plan for just 2-cour or if they have enough plot for a traditional 4-cour Gundam. Especially with how popular the show is right now .

Originally Posted by Endscape

I really hope we don't see some situation where both Guel and Miorine become embittered at Suletta.[

Yeah, to be honest I don't think Guel will be in the mood for happy-go-lucky Suletta any more .

The Gundam could have been something they got fairly recently and she might not know about. Shaddiq did made it sound like Nika was close to the leader.

Nika deduced it was Earthians but not Dawn of Fold in particular. Does this mean that there are particular codes used widely in the underground resistance scene on Earth so she could be sure it would be received?

It's interesting that we don't know exactly how involved Nika is.

I wonder if she knows the Earth Witches. Their boss is apparently her foster father.

[Shinji103]

Well, there’s the war, finally. MS Utena has evolved into Gundam TWfM. And what a bloody war it is.

Man, Guel is getting trashed in this show. First they make him the clown pilot in everybody’s eyes, then he gets booted out of his family, and then when he gets back in the cockpit instead of showing the badass pilot he is he ends up killing his own father. He’s almost the Subaru Natsuki of this series; the writers love to make him suffer.

There’s definitely some kind of brainwashing/conditioning going on with Suletta. Mommy is having way too easy a time manipulating her between lying about Aerial being a Gundam to convincing her it’s okay to kill. And when Suletta is convinced by mommy, she’s way too convinced. That is NOT a normal reaction to killing. Given the growing possibility that she may have turned her first daughter into a Gundam, I’m wondering if Suletta is even really Prospera’s daughter or a clone of Eri, or maybe just some poor unconnected orphan that she picked up and conditioned into Suletta as a pawn to carry out her plans.

Goodbye to le femme Gundam; say hello to Unit 01 FV and 00 Quanta’s daughter.

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by kuroyanagi

To add to this, Ichinose Kana mentions in the newest Majo-raji that for the C part, she was instructed to "do it comically, since that'll make it scarier." So at the very least, it seems the directorial intent was to have the viewers freak out with Miorine

Lynn also mentions she felt like Suletta's lines toward that mob terrorist felt off, like she was scolding/disciplining him, rather than fighting. Now that I think about it, the things she said towards Sophie ("didn't your mother teach you...") sound like that too. Makes me wonder if she really, truly realized what she was doing. In that context, Miorine's last line may have been the exact thing that was needed to bring her back to reality.

I also like their interpretation on the Radio that Suletta seer her mom as a paragon of what is right, so if her mom says it is okay to kill, then yeah, it must be okay to kill.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Nika probably won't be able to come up with a great excuse on the spot. But she might be able to. Can always say she realized the attackers were from Earth and sent a communication through morse code (or whatever they might use) to say they are also from Earth and not enemies. She doesn't have to admit everything.

There is the question if Nika will even feel like trying to come with excuses, it does seems she is being eaten by regret so if pressed she may want to just confess.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by Kanon

What makes me think Nika is mostly in the dark about everything is that she didn't recognize Sophie's Gundam. She only deduced she was an Earthian because she was using bullets. Someone deeply involved would have known everything.



She didn't just act like it wasn't a big deal. She slipped in the guys' blood and laughed it off. IMO she is definitely being brainwashed, this isn't the first hint we've gotten. Suletta usually displays normal reactions to her surroundings, I don't see why she'd be happily squashing people just because her mother told her it's ok to kill. Her reaction was NOT normal, and can't just be hand-waved as her being socially stunted.

About Nika, I was just saying it didn't seem like she was being blackmailed as much as it seeming like she was repaying a favor somehow, unless I missed/forgot something.

Far as the brainwash theories goes, there was a manga I read some time ago called Good Morning, Psychopath. You could read the first chapter to know where I'm going, but basically

Spoiler for 1st chp's spoilers:

it has a similar phenomenon. The girl is a robot mimicking a human. In the chapter, the human boy she interacts with makes her a necklace with cicada shells. Later on, since the boy really likes cats she decides to do the same thing... but with cat heads. He has the same reaction as Miorine here, but the girl acts and smiles like her usual self, like Suletta in the same scene.

And I say all that to say that to me it feels more like a person who doesn't fully understand feelings, and is still learning and getting information about "being human" than brainwashing. I mentioned this theory sometime ago, and I'm starting to gravitate away from the brainwashing idea. This might be in part because I'm thinking of "brainwashing" in the traditional sense, but those are my thoughts about it so far. That's not to say I don't believe it could happen, cause the theories have structure.