Love and Responsibility

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by escimo

The scenario certainly makes more sense knowing it's origin.

Anyway I think this comes down more to love vs. pride than love vs. responsibility. Unless we're talking about Jesus here I think irl the proposed marriage or even the guy ditching the scene wouldn't have such a profound effect on the family business. I'd say that if the parents are ready to sacrifice the happiness of their son because of pride I'd question how much they actually love their son. If the guy is ready to give up on it on his own because of his own pride and for the sake of his parents I'd question how much he actually loves the girl. And even if it actually comes to the question leave everything and make a run for it with the girl or ditch the girl if the girl is actually aware of this situation she should have just left without making such an ultimatum. So it all comes down ultimately to pride. And in the wise words of Marcellus Wallace. "Fuck pride."

I don't think that blood ties are such an issue here. I'd say that what the girls parents did cut those ties quite effectively. Ultimately there's not much more to learn here than this is a fine example of bad television...

And what kind of son would leave his elderly parents behind struggling with thier business on the verge of bankruptcy?

[escimo]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

And what kind of son would leave his elderly parents behind struggling with thier business on the verge of bankruptcy?

Don't know about the original work but as the scenario was depicted here I didn't think that the scenario was that clear cut. If it was, the guy's parents were complete idiots to begin with. Putting absolutely everything in line as an investment is always a bad idea. Why the hell would you give the kind of a loan in the first place knowing that you'll go belly up if anything goes wrong. Doing their business like that they'll surely go bankrupt sooner or later. Furthermore if this actually is the case the corporate image would be screwed anyways. I wouldn't want to do business with anyone who is handling his/her finances that irresponsibly. And as the corporate image is already fucked what's the problem with the guy marrying the girl.
I'm not saying that it's ok to abandon your parents but in this example all of the parties involved are acting like dipshits. And as said the whole scenario just doesn't make any sense what so ever.

[Xellos-_^]

In the orginal tv series, it the girl's uncle whos tole all that movie on a suppose joint project. And it wasn't the parent that was aginst the marriage but Grandma who couldn't stand being swindle out of that much money.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

No answer is easy, but I'll go with "Pro Guy".

[AnbuItachi]

Yea this is from a Asian place where image counts for a lot. The super bad image is not that they got stolen from. They can deal with that somewhat without going bankrupt. The bad image appears if the guy actually leaves with the girl, which will most likely force the company into bankruptcy. Even if the chance of bankruptcy isn't 100%, would you still take the risk? Some countries just work like that =\

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

Only in western society. In Asian society, you are pretty much marrying the whole family.

Actually its not even true in Western society -- we just like to *pretend* it is. This inevitably leads to substantial problems down the road.

You *are* marrying the family so stop pretending you aren't. If you can't stand them be prepared to move thousands of miles to mitigate the annoyance.

[yvcso]

It's a bit tough to choose, but I guess that I'll go with Pro- guy.

[Anh_Minh]

I am somewhat disturbed by the assumption that romantic love and personal happiness are the most important things in the world. Seriously, maybe the guy should have eloped (if, say, the situation for the company wasn't as serious as described, and the parents weren't going to budged no matter what, even years after the fact, and putting them in front of the fait accompli (like grandchildren) was for the best, and so on...)

But I wouldn't say that, no matter the circumstances, he should only think of his own sorry couple, at the expense of everything else.

And I don't think "pride" is the only reason for opposing the marriage. The girl is the daughter of thieves who didn't hesitate in biting the hand that fed them and hanging their own daughter out to dry. What if she's like them?

[SeedFreedom]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I am somewhat disturbed by the assumption that romantic love and personal happiness are the most important things in the world. Seriously, maybe the guy should have eloped (if, say, the situation for the company wasn't as serious as described, and the parents weren't going to budged no matter what, even years after the fact, and putting them in front of the fait accompli (like grandchildren) was for the best, and so on...)

But I wouldn't say that, no matter the circumstances, he should only think of his own sorry couple, at the expense of everything else.

And I don't think "pride" is the only reason for opposing the marriage. The girl is the daughter of thieves who didn't hesitate in biting the hand that fed them and hanging their own daughter out to dry. What if she's like them?

What proof do you have that she is? Just because she's their child? Then all your saying is that you don't have faith in your son to find a trustworthy girl. ITs obvious the parents are bitter, not because they don't trust her.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

The plot came form a old Hong Kong Drama, about 10 yr or so years back.

I already expected some melodrama/soap opera source.

What's especially irking about the scenario is that it seems that the author didn't consider the parent's position so convincing either so he tried to secure it against all sides: it's not that they simply don't want. They would go bankrupt (would they?) and then the employees would be jobless (would they?). And last but not least: the guy's very existence is at stake. So it's not 'him' against 'society' (parents) but his decision concerns him very much personally in any case. All in all, small print gives a different message than the headline.

BTW, thinking this through logically (what a joke) the girl must already be screwed with her parents gone. So no wonder she presses for a wedding. It's probably much harder for a woman to survive on her own than for a man, or a couple. Of course, it's easy for the script writer to secure the positions against that thought too.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I am somewhat disturbed by the assumption that romantic love and personal happiness are the most important things in the world.

Actually, I think the very definition of romantic love is to be concerned not about your personal happiness but the happiness of another person. This is why i always considered the term 'shounen romance' as a misnomer in most cases. It actually doesn't require any capability for romantic feelings from the male viewer at all.

One might consider romantic love a silly notion but then again what isn't. The party that can be 'congratulated' to be immune to romanticism of any type and acting purely rationally seems to be the girl's parents: Screw everybody, take the money, and run away.

Originally Posted by escimo

this is a fine example of bad television...

Sums it up quite nicely.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by SeedFreedom

What proof do you have that she is? Just because she's their child?

Well, yes. They not only birthed her, they raised her. That's not, stricto sensu, "proof", but it would take a few years to regain my trust.

Then all your saying is that you don't have faith in your son to find a trustworthy girl.

Well, no, I don't trust my kid to read minds. Especially when he's in luuuurrrrrve.

ITs obvious the parents are bitter, not because they don't trust her.

That's your interpretation. Not mine, because I sure wouldn't trust her either. And I'd only be vindicated by her walking away. Just a little hardship and she runs off on my son? Can't have loved him that much. I certainly wouldn't want her to raise my grandkids.

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Actually, I think the very definition of romantic love is to be concerned not about your personal happiness but the happiness of another person. This is why i always considered the term 'shounen romance' as a misnomer in most cases. It actually doesn't require any capability for romantic feelings from the male viewer at all.

I thought it was about being together no matter what. Regardless of what misfortune it can bring about, what responsibilities you're ditching, and so on. Even if it kills both parties, as in Romeo and Juliet.

Rather than, you know, take the view that you can always find a new love, but you've only got one life.

[Cheezy]

I would never prioritize love so high that I'd leave my parents.

Can't you just have a good relationship without marrying?

[WONDERMIKE]

Guy goes on his knees and begs to his parents.

fail.

sorry, but it's the parents fault for trusting the girl's parents, the guy is not responsible for their faults and they just can't overrule him on whether he marries someone or not it's his life and only his. When the guy refuses to marry her it's common sense to ask him about his love and what he intends to do for it, I would feel betrayed and leave my partner when he hesitates, no need to blame the girl.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

fail.

sorry, but it's the parents fault for trusting the girl's parents, the guy is not responsible for their faults and they just can't overrule him on whether he marries someone or not it's his life and only his. When the guy refuses to marry her it's common sense to ask him about his love and what he intends to do for it, I would feel betrayed and leave my partner when he hesitates, no need to blame the girl.

What a nice view of family to have. That means that if their son brings them someone telling them "Can you do him a favor? I know him, he won't let you down", then they should ignore that and just treat him like any other stranger. And if their son marries someone who will ultimately betray him - well, that's entirely his fault, and his parents should just stay out of it.

[WONDERMIKE]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

What a nice view of family to have. That means that if their son brings them someone telling them "Can you do him a favor? I know him, he won't let you down", then they should ignore that and just treat him like any other stranger. And if their son marries someone who will ultimately betray him - well, that's entirely his fault, and his parents should just stay out of it.

a favor and investing everything you have are two different stories, and: business is just business, you can't risk everything and shut down your brain.. business<->family ties are dangerous, when you start being soft and kind you will ruin your company

yes they should stay out of it, all they can do is talk to him and warn him.. this guy is an adult, right? He should face rl with the help of his parents, not under their command

[Anh_Minh]

They haven't invested everything they have, and we don't know if they "shut down their brain". All we know is that they got burned because they trusted the girl's family.

As for the boy being an adult - sure, but that doesn't mean he has no responsibility toward his family anymore. Marriage is a big thing, that involves the family and the family business. The parents have every right to say they don't approve, and he has every right to think his parents' approval is more important than the girl's impatience.

[WONDERMIKE]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

They haven't invested everything they have, and we don't know if they "shut down their brain". All we know is that they got burned because they trusted the girl's family.

they trusted her parents, apparently the girl is still there and only her parents took off while she is truly in love with the guy and bearing the shame her parents caused(that's why I think her honest love is undisputable)

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

As for the boy being an adult - sure, but that doesn't mean he has no responsibility toward his family anymore. Marriage is a big thing, that involves the family and the family business. The parents have every right to say they don't approve, and he has every right to think his parents' approval is more important than the girl's impatience.

according to you he could never fall in love with whomever he wants, first he has to get the parents permission with a marriage-option.. just imagine this guy is gay, that would mean he could never have any sort of relationship

and I don't see where the girl shows impatience, in fact first the guy went begging, then they were both begging, all according to the protocol or whatever.. they did everything they could to please the parents so they wouldn't loose their face and have the chance to show true greatness and allow the marriage

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by WONDERMIKE

they trusted her parents, apparently the girl is still there and only her parents took off while she is truly in love with the guy and bearing the shame her parents caused(that's why I think her honest love is undisputable)

That, or her parents just ditched her, Ayasaki-style (from Hayate no Gotoku). Or she thinks she can get still more out of him.

according to you he could never fall in love with whomever he wants, first he has to get the parents permission with a marriage-option.. just imagine this guy is gay, that would mean he could never have any sort of relationship

Falling in love and marrying are different.

Besides, even if he's in love, it's perfectly legitimate for him to want parental approval.

and I don't see where the girl shows impatience, in fact first the guy went begging, then they were both begging, all according to the protocol or whatever.. they did everything they could to please the parents so they wouldn't loose their face and have the chance to show true greatness and allow the marriage

She's impatient because she refuses to wait for the parents to change their minds. Those things take time.

[escimo]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

What a nice view of family to have. That means that if their son brings them someone telling them "Can you do him a favor? I know him, he won't let you down", then they should ignore that and just treat him like any other stranger. And if their son marries someone who will ultimately betray him - well, that's entirely his fault, and his parents should just stay out of it.

Who is to say that the girl would ultimately betray the guy. Hell if you automatically inherit all the bad personality traits of your parents it'd be much better for me to just go and shoot myself. Would probably save someone else the trouble. I'd be fucked anyway.
If the guy hooks up with someone else there's basically the same probability of the bitch taking of with the cash.

I've seen over and over again children developing almost completely opposite personalities in comparison to their parents so running around claiming that you're thief because you're a son/daughter/neighbor/cousin/what ever of a thief is prejudice to an alarming extent.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by escimo

Who is to say that the girl would ultimately betray the guy. Hell if you automatically inherit all the bad personality traits of your parents it'd be much better for me to just go and shoot myself. Would probably save someone else the trouble. I'd be fucked anyway.
If the guy hooks up with someone else there's basically the same probability of the bitch taking of with the cash.

I've seen over and over again children developing almost completely opposite personalities in comparison to their parents so running around claiming that you're thief because you're a son/daughter/neighbor/cousin/what ever of a thief is prejudice to an alarming extent.

I'm not saying the girl is definitely a thief, but I'm saying the probability is higher for her than for someone who's been raised following ideals of honesty, loyalty, integrity, and so on.

Or someone whose interests are in continued loyalty, and who's demonstratedly good at knowing where her interests are. A long term business alliance would have ensured the first half of that... if it'd worked. Now she's just someone they have no real hold over, and whose family has a history of thieving and of abandonning their own.

So, yeah. I certainly think she'd bear watching some more before committing to a long term relationship with her. Note, even if her parents were saints, I wouldn't approve of rushing into marriage, no matter how much "in love" they are. But in the circumstances? I'd definitely like some indication she is committed.