Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 28 Discussion

[Liquidzero]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

What do you guys propose Federation and Flit do if you are against genocide?

A peremptory norm (also called jus cogens or ius cogens, Latin for "compelling law") is a fundamental principle of international law which is accepted by the international community of states as a norm from which no derogation is ever permitted.

There is no clear agreement regarding precisely which norms are jus cogens nor how a norm reaches that status, but it is generally accepted that jus cogens includes the prohibition of genocide, maritime piracy, slaving in general (to include slavery as well as the slave trade), torture, and wars of aggression and territorial aggrandizement.

Do these prohibitions occur in the real world, yes they do. However, it is accepted that genocide is NEVER okay.

[justsomeguy]

Episode 28:
* Zant is an idiot. If he had the chest cannon all along, he should have fired it immediately, and taken out both the PM and Flit in one shot.
* Finally some AsemuXRomary. I think this may have been even worse than the FlitXEmily romance, which at least was one-sided. We got next to no development for this at all.
* Given how much of the EF government had Vagan ties, I can only wonder if accommodating the Vagan is actually the will of a substantial part of the population (assuming that the EF is democratic). On the other hand, it seems like that both sides were willing to continue sending their soldiers into battle even while selling intel to each other, and causing unnecessary casualties. Seems like the "negotiations" were just a ploy. The other possibility is that Ezelcant is using hax X-Rounder powers to influence certain susceptible members of the EF government, but that's a bit too out there.
* Considering how the Vagan seem to have absolutely no trouble fielding large armies despite being descended from a colonist population that is only a fraction of the Earth sphere's and having a 20% mortality rate, one has to wonder how badly they're actually doing and whether their desire to conquer Earth is valid.
* Apparently there are "many" Vagan on Earth now. How? How many people fit on that space fortress? How did they escape getting rounded up as soon as they landed, and how did they get the facilities and resources to create a new army? The show seems to be acting as if the Vagans have free reign to attack Earth now, and forgot that the Earth space forces are still around to prevent any more landings. The guys on Earth should be outnumbered, completely fucked, and in hiding, not conducting any attacks.

On the second arc:
* Now that I look at it, the writing was a bit odd in terms of what it focused on:
*too much focus on Asemu's personal problems (and yet his thunder was being stolen by his own father half the time).
*not enough on his relationship with Romary. In fact, Romary's character development was less than satisfactory.
*the time they spent with Zeheart in high school was passed over in a timeskip and did not leave enough impact.
*there was not enough focus on the details of the ongoing war.
* Considering what Asemu accomplished was more for himself than for the war, this arc was not as epic as the first, and cannot really stand alone. He does not appear in the preview or promo materials either. I really hope the writers don't forget about him.
* By the time of the third arc, Ezelcant will be old, older than Flit most likely. I wonder if the war will end because of Kio's actions, or because the older generations die and the younger ones just give up.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Episode 28:
* Zant is an idiot. If he had the chest cannon all along, he should have fired it immediately, and taken out both the PM and Flit in one shot.

To add to this, I wonder how Flit and his underlings could just stand there like that so calmly. Perhaps his X-Rounder abilities gave him the ability to read into the future


For me, I think at least Asemu x Romary was better than Flit x Emily (even with everything 'rushed', at least, we got something ).

I think the problem is they are trying to do too much in just 50 episodes that resulted in 'snipping' and 'cramming'.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

What? You wanted him to just sit back and watch while the Federation falls apart from traitors in the higher-ups? Your just grasping at straws now. His coup targeted traitors in the upper echelons of the Federation, traitors who willingly gave support to the Vagans to allow them to hold Federation citizens as hostages and shields. Don't know which country your from but "treason" is a serious crime that will result in death penalties or at least extremely severe ones(Most cases life imprisonment) and we're talking about an actual high ranking official here.

I find it hilarious that your all about the Vagans who pretty much perform underhanded tricks but when it comes to Flit trying to root it out in which case he does it directly you put him in the same bed as the devil.

That and the Federation is at war with the Vagans if you handn't noticed and nations tend to be a bit more extreme in these cases as there's very little room for liberalism.

It's a miracle that the Flit had so much leeway in directing the war that the Prime Minister didn't even targeted him to begin with.

It seems like you will go to any length to justify Flit's actions. He has no right to play judge jury and executioner. I'm not saying that the EF should let traitors go unpunished, but I'd rather see 100 traitors go free/unpunished, than see a single innocent person be executed. Unfortunately the latter tends to happen quite often when people like Flit conduct these sorts of purges. You don't seem to realize that the guy is a borderline psychopath... Normal people don't just go around vowing to exterminate a group of people. Seriously, analyze that and tell me again how Flit is justified...He's no better than the Vagans, in fact I'd say he's worse.

Ezelcant wants to create a world without wars, or disease for his people, and all the Vagans are working towards that goal. Flit wants to exterminate all the Vagans because they killed his mother, and robbed him of his childhood and friends. That's a very selfish and egotistical; he may throw around words like good, justice, righteousness, but he's none of that. He's a monster.


Just because a country is at war doesn't mean that it's ok to suspend due process and other basic rights. The moment we forsake our principles and values and lahs out in anger we become no better than our enemies.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

It seems like you will go to any length to justify Flit's actions. He has no right to play judge jury and executioner. I'm not saying that the EF should let traitors go unpunished, but I'd rather see 100 traitors go free/unpunished, than see a single innocent person be executed.

Except we didn't see any innocent person get executed. All people who had connections to the Vagans were purged. The show is pretty straightforward if you hadn't noticed. It's not that complicated. Show me where it had Flit executing a person that's guilty or is this another of your rants to paint Flit as some brutal dictator?

Unfortunately the latter tends to happen quite often when people like Flit conduct these sorts of purges. You don't seem to realize that the guy is a borderline psychopath... Normal people don't just go around vowing to exterminate a group of people. Seriously, analyze that and tell me again how Flit is justified...He's no better than the Vagans, in fact I'd say he's worse.

He purged traitors. End of story. The show isn't going to waste time showing us the trials when they're all guilty. In the real world people/governments tend not to be very sympathetic to traitors which Brightman already pointed out. Some countries are lenient but only in peaceful times. Most cases it's just life imprisonment but we're not at war.

Ezelcant wants to create a world without wars, or disease for his people, and all the Vagans are working towards that goal. Flit wants to exterminate all the Vagans because they killed his mother, and robbed him of his childhood and friends. That's a very selfish and egotistical; he may throw around words like good, justice, righteousness, but he's none of that. He's a monster.

Ok now see this is the part that irks me. You guys just keep painting the Vagans in some white light despite the fact that they've done nothing to show otherwise. Of all the Vagans except Zeheart they clearly have a very low view on earthlings and see themselves as superior to them. Then they go around massacring civilians, colonies and if possible hold them as human shields. You may not realize this but Flit wasn't the only one on that colony. There were other people there too. They have done nothing that puts them in any good light.

At the same time Flit has yet to do any of the things you keep going on about. Like I said, I'm simply pointing out facts. You guys are just grasping at straws for something that doesn't even exist.

The Prime Minister is correct in that Flit's anger may make things worse but the fact remains that the Federation's negotiations failed means that Ezcelant is not interested in co-existing with humanity. If you have turned the highest ranking leader of a nation to your side how the hell can you **** up getting a favourable peace treaty?

You may not realize but having your top ranking leader sell your country out is pretty high up there.

[mechalord]

Rushed ending to Asem's arc. Romary x Asem was lame.

But wait... Kio may not be their child together or their child at all. They may not even be alive in the next arc.

It seems Kio is being raised by Flit and aunty Unoa. They're driving through a city and all hell breaks loose.

Earth is a war zone.

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

It seems like you will go to any length to justify Flit's actions. He has no right to play judge jury and executioner. I'm not saying that the EF should let traitors go unpunished, but I'd rather see 100 traitors go free/unpunished, than see a single innocent person be executed. Unfortunately the latter tends to happen quite often when people like Flit conduct these sorts of purges. You don't seem to realize that the guy is a borderline psychopath... Normal people don't just go around vowing to exterminate a group of people. Seriously, analyze that and tell me again how Flit is justified...He's no better than the Vagans, in fact I'd say he's worse.

Ezelcant wants to create a world without wars, or disease for his people, and all the Vagans are working towards that goal. Flit wants to exterminate all the Vagans because they killed his mother, and robbed him of his childhood and friends. That's a very selfish and egotistical; he may throw around words like good, justice, righteousness, but he's none of that. He's a monster.


Just because a country is at war doesn't mean that it's ok to suspend due process and other basic rights. The moment we forsake our principles and values and lahs out in anger we become no better than our enemies.

Flit carried out the coup d'etat and didn't make himself dictator? Psh... he thinks he's Cincinnatus? He was an inch away from global domination.

Originally Posted by justsomeguy

Episode 28:
* Zant is an idiot. If he had the chest cannon all along, he should have fired it immediately, and taken out both the PM and Flit in one shot.
* Finally some AsemuXRomary. I think this may have been even worse than the FlitXEmily romance, which at least was one-sided. We got next to no development for this at all.
* Given how much of the EF government had Vagan ties, I can only wonder if accommodating the Vagan is actually the will of a substantial part of the population (assuming that the EF is democratic). On the other hand, it seems like that both sides were willing to continue sending their soldiers into battle even while selling intel to each other, and causing unnecessary casualties. Seems like the "negotiations" were just a ploy. The other possibility is that Ezelcant is using hax X-Rounder powers to influence certain susceptible members of the EF government, but that's a bit too out there.
* Considering how the Vagan seem to have absolutely no trouble fielding large armies despite being descended from a colonist population that is only a fraction of the Earth sphere's and having a 20% mortality rate, one has to wonder how badly they're actually doing and whether their desire to conquer Earth is valid.
* Apparently there are "many" Vagan on Earth now. How? How many people fit on that space fortress? How did they escape getting rounded up as soon as they landed, and how did they get the facilities and resources to create a new army? The show seems to be acting as if the Vagans have free reign to attack Earth now, and forgot that the Earth space forces are still around to prevent any more landings. The guys on Earth should be outnumbered, completely fucked, and in hiding, not conducting any attacks.

On the second arc:
* Now that I look at it, the writing was a bit odd in terms of what it focused on:
*too much focus on Asemu's personal problems (and yet his thunder was being stolen by his own father half the time).
*not enough on his relationship with Romary. In fact, Romary's character development was less than satisfactory.
*the time they spent with Zeheart in high school was passed over in a timeskip and did not leave enough impact.
*there was not enough focus on the details of the ongoing war.
* Considering what Asemu accomplished was more for himself than for the war, this arc was not as epic as the first, and cannot really stand alone. He does not appear in the preview or promo materials either. I really hope the writers don't forget about him.
* By the time of the third arc, Ezelcant will be old, older than Flit most likely. I wonder if the war will end because of Kio's actions, or because the older generations die and the younger ones just give up.

Vagan like to spend time in cryo/suspended animation. He may go to sleep for 5 years at a time to keep himself looking relatively young. Lord Ezelcant has only been seen on video screens. He may be an AI for all we know. Shh... don't tell anyone.

Also... it's not like the Gundam Universe isn't littered with the afterbirths of cloned leaders. Ezelcant could be a clone of the original Mars colony mission...they could make more.


Oh... how about Flit? He doesn't approve of Romary... the dude missed his son's wedding!!!

Maybe Romary dies in some attack and Kio is actually Asem's kid through his second wife.

[larethian]

Originally Posted by mechalord

Rushed ending to Asem's arc. Romary x Asem was lame.

But wait... Kio may not be their child together or their child at all. They may not even be alive in the next arc.

It seems Kio is being raised by Flit and aunty Unoa. They're driving through a city and all hell breaks loose.

Earth is a war zone.






Flit carried out the coup d'etat and didn't make himself dictator? Psh... he thinks he's Cincinnatus? He was an inch away from global domination.



Vagan like to spend time in cryo/suspended animation. He may go to sleep for 5 years at a time to keep himself looking relatively young. Lord Ezelcant has only been seen on video screens. He may be an AI for all we know. Shh... don't tell anyone.

Also... it's not like the Gundam Universe isn't littered with the afterbirths of cloned leaders. Ezelcant could be a clone of the original Mars colony mission...they could make more.


Oh... how about Flit? He doesn't approve of Romary... the dude missed his son's wedding!!!

Maybe Romary dies in some attack and Kio is actually Asem's kid through his second wife.

Actually, it's already stated on the official site that Kio is the son of Asemu and Romary

Well, it is strange not to find Asemu and Romary on the character page so I had those thoughts as well, but then again, Zeheart is also not on the page unless he changed his appearance and got a new name.

[gundamdrawer]

not really a satisfactory ending of the gen2 for me. I still want to see "super pilot" action of Asemu. But I got a bad feeling that the reason he was given a happier ending than Flit is because he's gonna die anyway. I really want to see him and the Age-2 in gen3.

[Rising Dragon]

We know that Asem will be around still by AG 151, at least. So he still has time to hang around.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Ezelcant wants to create a world without wars, or disease for his people, and all the Vagans are working towards that goal.

You're right. They are doing a pretty good job at that, by killing civilians and destroying colonies. When no earthling remains, there won't be any war left.
Flit is even worse. He keep talking about exterminating all Vagan.

Wait.

[FlareKnight]

I know the universe seem to want Asemu to suffer, but let's wait and see before we decide on his death .

In terms of the pacing do think they would have been better off giving each generation closer to 20 episodes. Sure it would take the total higher than most Gundam series, but considering it's like 3 series in 1 it almost needs that amount.

[faceroll]

does anyone think that 3rd party were actually corrupt EFF officials or that 3rd party will be prominent in the 3rd arc

[atilim]

Originally Posted by faceroll

does anyone think that 3rd party were actually corrupt EFF officials or that 3rd party will be prominent in the 3rd arc

nope they where nothing more then lapdogs for Vagan, they have zero to gain if they where a 3e faction.

Also I kind of doubt that their numbers are large enough to be a 3e faction, they are all high level officials and not common soldiers or government workers.

[JediNight]

I know I harp on this show a lot, but this episode was disappointing, even by AGE standards. All that insubordination and getting his CO killed, and he's promoted to a SpecOps Captain in less than a year?

How are the Vagans apparently able to just insert forces onto Earth at will apparently, if they needed to use the cover of a fortress before? And why couldn't they just have people sneak aboard colonies and just take flights to Earth?

Why was the fight choreography lazy/non-existant for the finale to AGE2? Especially when it comes to some crazy new World-of-Warcraft-Warlock looking mobile suit and one of the main leaders of Vagan? It's not that he was actually good -- the fodder suits were literally standing there doing NOTHING for half the time. Actually nothing. Even the fighting with Asemu lacked any real finesse or made it seem like a good fight.

He also had plenty of time to kill both the PM and Flit there, and stood around sneering instead...

I think Level5 needs to stick to DBZ soccer...

[Nivek von Beldo]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

It seems like you will go to any length to justify Flit's actions. He has no right to play judge jury and executioner. I'm not saying that the EF should let traitors go unpunished, but I'd rather see 100 traitors go free/unpunished, than see a single innocent person be executed. Unfortunately the latter tends to happen quite often when people like Flit conduct these sorts of purges. You don't seem to realize that the guy is a borderline psychopath... Normal people don't just go around vowing to exterminate a group of people. Seriously, analyze that and tell me again how Flit is justified...He's no better than the Vagans, in fact I'd say he's worse.

Ezelcant wants to create a world without wars, or disease for his people, and all the Vagans are working towards that goal. Flit wants to exterminate all the Vagans because they killed his mother, and robbed him of his childhood and friends. That's a very selfish and egotistical; he may throw around words like good, justice, righteousness, but he's none of that. He's a monster.


Just because a country is at war doesn't mean that it's ok to suspend due process and other basic rights. The moment we forsake our principles and values and lahs out in anger we become no better than our enemies.

Revolutionist... you don't give justice to your name, your declaration were not more than blinded Fanboyism.... yes Gundam AGE make me even start to hate Zeon and his expy even more than Victory Gundam.

Those were Hard time and even if Flit in some sense lead a Coup D'Etat he doesn't use that to declared himself a dictador but simple purge of the corrupt element of the federation.

Simple for those Veigan fans... you have here a little piece for you 'urgence':

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/8025462/...ke_of_the_past

In general somewhat AGE have won my respect is how they portait the conflict, even with some little cartoonish angle(who all gundam series suffer, fans face reality sometime) they are being very realistic and grey with all.

[arkxkra]

this episode the pace is extremely fast! but not too bad on the marriage scene.

looking forward to 3rd generations.

[kk2extreme]

Originally Posted by Roloko vi Britannia

Kinda rushed for the finale of the second gen, but at least we got to see Arisa's milf Mom so I'm happy. Dique banged a sexy blond chick what a lucky man.

That was Dique's waifu, looks like Dique has the last laugh after all

[Dark Wing]

You know at times I kinda do wish the AGE series had been made for a more mature audience and possible a few more episodes so we can see many of these plot points played straight but I guess you got to work with whats given...

[SagaraSouske]

Originally Posted by Liquidzero

A peremptory norm (also called jus cogens or ius cogens, Latin for "compelling law") is a fundamental principle of international law which is accepted by the international community of states as a norm from which no derogation is ever permitted.

There is no clear agreement regarding precisely which norms are jus cogens nor how a norm reaches that status, but it is generally accepted that jus cogens includes the prohibition of genocide, maritime piracy, slaving in general (to include slavery as well as the slave trade), torture, and wars of aggression and territorial aggrandizement.

Do these prohibitions occur in the real world, yes they do. However, it is accepted that genocide is NEVER okay.

It's not about it being ok or not ok. If your only have two choice, commit genocide or perish, we as a specie will choose genocide.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

What do you guys propose Federation and Flit do if you are against genocide?

Win the war first (by which I mean destroy the Vagan's warmaking capability) and negotiate at gunpoint like any civilized army? It really isn't that difficult to figure out.

Originally Posted by SagaraSouske

It's not about it being ok or not ok. If your only have two choice, commit genocide or perish, we as a specie will choose genocide.

Yes, but when does that ever happen?