Kanon - Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Kagikkos only)

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by KenOhki'sRage

Mishio in 2k2 explained that the souls of the foxes are recycled, well she didn't say the word recycled, she hinted strongly that Mokoto's spirit would be reborn and there would be a new fox on the hill soon.

Do we need spoiler tags in this section? I'm really confused, after all the topic says Spoilers & Speculation so I really want to be lazy and not use them.

That summarizes the buddhist/shinto concepts of reincarnation/rebirth -- the spirit carries on and though the memories may be shed from cycle to cycle, the balance of karma carries through and with that -- some sense of feeling about Yuuichi and the others.
The Little Mermaid analogy is pretty good though (outside of the Western lack of soul cycles)...

I know this is supposed to be a "BEWAREZ, SPOILERZ ABOUNDS, YARR!!!!" thread, but the title is just passive enough that I'd hate to seriously mess someone's fun up. So, in my case, I may continue to put a CLASS FIVE spoiler in tags just for my own peace of mind.

[KenOhki'sRage]

Makoto's degeneration in the old show took all of 15 minutes and covered the span of days/weeks. So it's entirely possible that with the introduction of Mishio in episode 7 and what looks like her explanation to Yuuichi on Makoto's true nature Kyoani may choose to drag her story out through several episodes. It's possible that Makoto's upcoming illness will take several episodes to resolve and be all the more heartbreaking for it.

[MakubeX2]

The way I see the scenarior panned out :-

Ep 8 is where we will see the last of the healthy Makoto and that the truth behind Makoto will be revealed by Mishio at the very end of the Ep.

Ep 9 is where will we see the begining of the degeneration of Makoto, but her arc will not end here. It will slowly be spread out till the end of the series, saving the staff story writting efforts to tie up any lose ends and still maximise the dramas. Any future cameo by her will be she and Yuuichi doing everyday stuffs in hope that she will recover.

[panzerfan]

I think that the degeneration process might already have pick its pace up, being right after Mononi hill. It will be quite gradual initially...
I don't totally agree with Makube's suggestion that her story will be left hanging, although I think that her regression will be long enough for all the other heroine that are aware of her to notice and to respond to that before Makoto vanishes away.

The next revelations after Amano's fox tale and the decline would be from Akiko's realization, the bell and so forth... the 'birthday' though might be a problem since Ayu's birthday happens to be a within a day from that chronologically.

[Rengemaru]

Although I enjoyed how the story ended in 2k3 version. But wasn't it announced that all of the stories would end together and not like the 2k3 version?

[4Tran]

Not really, what they said was that they wouldn't concentrate on one story to the exclusion of all the other ones. I think what they were trying to avoid was to have characters not show up for episodes on end. They've been fairly successful thus far, but I'm not sure how they're planning to do it with Makoto's story.

[Theclow]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Not really, what they said was that they wouldn't concentrate on one story to the exclusion of all the other ones. I think what they were trying to avoid was to have characters not show up for episodes on end. They've been fairly successful thus far, but I'm not sure how they're planning to do it with Makoto's story.

Spoiler:

I think the're just gonna concertrate on the shori(if I mispelled the name please correct me) arc, seeing almost every episode yuiichi runs out the're to meet her. Mostly I think all the rest will die or be forgoten(such as SHUFFLE!)

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Theclow

Spoiler:

I think the're just gonna concertrate on the shori(if I mispelled the name please correct me) arc, seeing almost every episode yuiichi runs out the're to meet her. Mostly I think all the rest will die or be forgoten(such as SHUFFLE!)

Spoiler:

Well, no, I find that most unlikely. Regardless of how exactly it ends, the most critical story arc (the one they can't "forget") is the Ayu arc (as evidenced by countless "hints" - pre-OP monologues, OP imagery, ED focus, etc.). So regardless of the "romantic" turn-out, I think Ayu's story is still the "big deal", and will almost definitely close the show. That's in no way an attempt to dismiss Shiori's story, which is coming, but I don't think all the other characters will be forgotten as a result.

[Theclow]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Spoiler:

Well, no, I find that most unlikely. Regardless of how exactly it ends, the most critical story arc (the one they can't "forget") is the Ayu arc (as evidenced by countless "hints" - pre-OP monologues, OP imagery, ED focus, etc.). So regardless of the "romantic" turn-out, I think Ayu's story is still the "big deal", and will almost definitely close the show. That's in no way an attempt to dismiss Shiori's story, which is coming, but I don't think all the other characters will be forgotten as a result.

Ah I apoligise I can't believe I forgot about ayu(I don't know how it's possible but I forgot she even was a kanon character), at the moment I was only thinking about
shiori, nayuki, and makoto anyway I apoligise, I've been pretty breandead lately. Also I wasen't really dissmissing any arc I might of sounded like I was but I really wasen't.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Rengemaru

Although I enjoyed how the story ended in 2k3 version. But wasn't it announced that all of the stories would end together and not like the 2k3 version?

One problem with the TOEI version is that it was "classical sequential" mostly except for Ayu running about. The KyoAni version seems to be trying to interleave *where it makes sense* and focus *when it makes sense*. If the climax is the Ayu conclusion... we're pretty much going to be have to be down to just Nayuki and Ayu -- otherwise the climax may be diluted (my opinion --- some genius writer could prove me wrong). That said... it may be episode 20+ before any girl's story gets firmly resolved. We've already seen how they're going to be able to defer Mai's story (Mai herself said "please pause").

I don't think they're going to end "together" but I do think they'll be able to weave the stories so that few or none are resolved before episode 20ish. I could even see them drawing out Makoto though I personally think it would be better for her story to climax in a few episodes to hook the new viewers.

[KenOhki'sRage]

Yeah the 2002 one we get basic story for 7 episodes then Mai's story in episode 8, Shiori's in 9, Makoto's in 10, Ayu's in 11, Naiyuki's in 12, and a final ending in 13. Each girl only gets 1 episode to tell her entire story which left too much out.

With the preview of 8 being nothing but Makoto I can't imagine stretching her story out for 16 episodes where she just gets weaker until she dies. That would be much too long. Since her story has the least to do with any other girl I vote for them removing her quickly and moving on. Guess we'll need to wait and see though.

[aliensporebomb]

Remember that this series has so far taken everything direct from the game.

So any of the possibilities you've seen in the game are likely here.

[orion]

Did anyone else notice that Ayu's wings were moving in ep. 7? Or is it my imagination?


But they still need to expand on Mai, Shiori, Nayuki and Ayu in the remaining episodes too before concluding their stories like what's happening to Makoto right now.

[Theclow]

Originally Posted by orion

But they still need to expand on Mai, Shiori, Nayuki and Ayu in the remaining episodes too before concluding their stories like what's happening to Makoto right now.

Tha's what I was talking about in the ep8 discussion thread, it's too early to talk about what's going on with makoto. They even went the extra mile to explain the whole 'makoto problem' in one(1) episode, IMO it's too soon to talk about makoto's problem or her past but that's just my opinion.

[orion]

I always thought that Makoto was the easiest to pick off since her story did not involve revelations from the other girls' stories and so the first to go this time around. Her story teaches him and the viewers the real price of a miracle imo

I expect to be dropped off a cliff with this version of Makoto's arc. Yep, it's Air time again. I'm thinking ep. 11 now. People are probably going to be on edge after her arc ends until the end of the show.

[Vexx]

yeah, for new viewers its going to be their first sledgehammer clue that they need to pay attention because there isn't going to be a reset ending and a bittersweet ending is the best possible ending they may get.

[Rengemaru]

Originally Posted by KenOhki'sRage

I vote for them removing her quickly and moving on.

*crying* Have some mercy you butcher

Originally Posted by aliensporebomb

So any of the possibilities you've seen in the game are likely here

It's true but the path that TOEI took was pretty good IMHO. Although I didn't play the game so I don't know about the other paths but I can't imagine a better path than the one TOEI took (unless someone can prove me wrong). And from the hints we saw KyoAni might be taking the same path again (resolving all stories, Nayuki and Ayu are left in the end, Yuuichi picks Ayu and saves her from the comma etc). And I'm really hoping for an epilogue or atleast something similer to the special episode that TOEI released.

Guess we have to wait until the whole mess is resolved.

[orion]

I'm actually hoping that Ayu gets a better wardrobe if we get the same ending as 2k3. I know the wardrobe at the end is part of the game, but come on guys. Who really wears clothes like that at age 16? I vote for a more realistic wardrobe that's better than Shiori's (short skirt, tights, boots).

Just attempting to add some levity back into the thread since it's going to be all downhill from here.

[New/Old]

Levity is something that may be needed, Orion. Heh heh.

Nevertheless, I can see why one would want to do away with Ayu's wardrobe at the end. It's...

[Ascaloth]

*adds his vote to a wardrobe change for Ayu at the end*

Say...should we ask to admins to open a poll for this?