[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by Kealym

Outside of EP2, where she was definitely dead upon discovery, I thought Kyrie was ALWAYS people's shorthand for an easy culprit.

Kyrie and Eva have always been the obvious red herrings for me. Kyrie because she was too competent to scheme a mass murder and pull it off, and Eva because she's the resident bitch of the series, and has the strongest apparent desire to kill (aside from Maria).

[AuraTwilight]

I also think the scene with the gold in E1 is fake; the padlocked room isn't mentioned anywhere else when it logically should be.

That, and who the hell keeps an entire room for one bar of gold?

[Kealym]

Originally Posted by rogerpepitone

It appears that NGKM left the study at 10:00 PM; their corpses were discovered at 11:30 PM. The phone call was probably at 10:20-10:25. There's no need for any ruse to get a rifle; he just needs to do so before making the call.

The scene after Natsuhi kicks her suspects out of the study starts at 11:30pm. Time is always a *little* fuzzy, but the scene describes everyone lingering around the room, then talking for awhile, then the phone call, and since the cousins were very insistent that they help Maria, even with them "trying to hide their footsteps"or be especially cautious in the halls, it wouldve taken a a few minutes for them to arrive at the study, at most.

You are right about the rifle, though. ANY possible culprit would have ample time to go get a rifle before making the call.

[Kealym]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

That, and who the hell keeps an entire room for one bar of gold?

Not even touching on the matter of the gold, just on a "who does that?" level.

Ahem.
"GONNA INVEST ME IN SOME MOON CASTLES!!"

Just as there's no crazy people wont attribute to Kinzo, there's no level of ineptitude or irrationality I will not attribute to Krauss.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

That, and who the hell keeps an entire room for one bar of gold?

The existence of the room is not the issue here. The important factor was that Krauss managed to recover the gold bar that Kinzo took from the pile, indicating that the gold actually did exist. He could've just been keeping it in a different location beforehand, and then just moved it to a guestroom to show it to Natsuhi, then moved it back later.
Regardless, the details of the scene weren't important. Just the message.

[Raiza Sunozaki]

Originally Posted by Kealym

Not even touching on the matter of the gold, just on a "who does that?" level.

Ahem.
"GONNA INVEST ME IN SOME MOON CASTLES!!"

Just as there's no crazy people wont attribute to Kinzo, there's no level of ineptitude or irrationality I will not attribute to Krauss.

I feel this is going to morph into a new "I wouldn't put it past Kinzo."
I wouldn't put it above Krauss's incompetence.

[Vylen]

I was pretty amazed by how gullible Krauss is... all the other siblings had reasonable stories behind their debts... but Krauss... he's just been swindled left and right cause he can't say No to people with "vision" and their "passionate" ideas.

I really want to know what Ryuukishi was thinking when he made that the source of Krauss' debts, heh.

[Kirroha]

He still has some land on the moon.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kirroha

He still has some land on the moon.

If that actually ends up being important somehow I will fly to Japan and punch R07 in the face.

[Revelation]

He must of been working with the "Lunar Embassy." You can actually buy land on the moon and plan moon trips with your family here - http://www.lunarlandowner.com/
Only Krauss is dumb enough to believe this. Owning celestial bodies is the biggest scam ever.
And you know what else? Siesta sisters are also moon rabbits, so they must be the vessel for the Lunar Embassy getting revenge on the Ushiromyas after Krauss didn't pay up... lol just kidding.

[Pika_power]

I've found a small contradiction in EP7 Tea Party. Beatrice had placed the rifles in the room with the gold, and planned to use them to massacre the family. However in some episodes, the adults find and use the rifles. We need an explanation for why those rifles weren't placed in the room with the gold. Otherwise, there's inconsistencies between the EPs. (Nothing new, but it's a potential problem, no?)

[Revelation]

Originally Posted by Pika_power

I've found a small contradiction in EP7 Tea Party. Beatrice had placed the rifles in the room with the gold, and planned to use them to massacre the family. However in some episodes, the adults find and use the rifles. We need an explanation for why those rifles weren't placed in the room with the gold. Otherwise, there's inconsistencies between the EPs. (Nothing new, but it's a potential problem, no?)

That's a great point... my only guess is that it was a clue that maybe the teaparty was a facade, that there may be more guns then we thought, or Beatrice had some change in heart to leave the guns out leaving an unexplained inconsistency... I guess when it comes down to it, the simplest answer is that its a plot hole. (Or maybe everyone who had a gun already found the gold in the past episodes. ) Someone else probably has a better explanation.

(Edit; The only thing I don't like about the multiple gun theory is that yeah, we know that Kinzo is an avid gun collector, but have we ever seen more then four rifles at once? I don't know, I would of liked more clues foreshadowing even more rifles. But I guess that could be explained with the Siesta's, so never mind.)

[Vylen]

Well... the number of rifles on the island hasn't been declared in red

Then, to keep thinking... while the number of rifles may be > 4 (maybe even > 8), the family would notice something odd about rifles missing from Kinzo's collection when they go to arm themselves up...

So, one can then assume that the rifles in Beatrice's room are additional rifles that aren't originally stored where Kinzo keeps his collection.

Thus, no more inconsistencies

Actually, another way to get past the potential inconsistency is that Kinzo's gun collection could be massive - half a room? maybe a whole room filled with rifles. Then, the family wouldn't notice missing rifles.

As a side note, why did Beatrice store 4 rifles - aside from potentially foreseeing the family feud, I for some reason have an image of Beatrice going Rambo-style on the island in that dress (too bad I can't draw cause that'd be a good picture, heh).

[Ayu-ayu]

Not that it makes him any less gullible, with some fairness to Krauss, there were a few investor schemes going on around that time in Japan based on the idea of orbital space hotels, which is probably partly what Ryuukishi07 was referencing. I remember seeing one that even commissioned an anime studio around the late 80's to make some of their promotional material.

It'd be hilariously ironic if it was Studio Deen they commissioned back then.

[rogerpepitone]

I doubt there were more than 4 obvious rifles. If there were, wouldn't the adults have taken 7 rifles in Episode 3, so that all of them could have a weapon?

[Cao Ni Ma]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

If that actually ends up being important somehow I will fly to Japan and punch R07 in the face.

The siestas are bunnies from the moon

[Kirroha]

There might be four rifles in the gold room and another four in Kinzo's study.

[Kealym]

Originally Posted by Pika_power

I've found a small contradiction in EP7 Tea Party. Beatrice had placed the rifles in the room with the gold, and planned to use them to massacre the family. However in some episodes, the adults find and use the rifles. We need an explanation for why those rifles weren't placed in the room with the gold. Otherwise, there's inconsistencies between the EPs. (Nothing new, but it's a potential problem, no?)

Hmm.

The number of rifles has always been an issue, as we have no idea where or how many there are in total. I see a slightly different contradiction.

In EP7, Beatrice is waiting in the Gold Room, with 4 rifles, and leaves them to the parents disposal. However, that's the only time the parents found the gold prior to midnight on the first night, so we can assume that in every other episode, Beatrice waits in the room until midnight, is a bit disappointed (...glad?) when noone shows up, and takes the rifle back to their regular place, in addition to First Twilight hijinks. There's no contradiction - Genji and Kumasawa can assist, if need be.

So, then I think, "Wait, the gold was found on the first night in EP5, but there was neither a Beatrice or rifles", which is a problem. I'll accept that "if the gold isnt found before midnight, October 4, Beatrice returns the rifles to their normal location". I think that's backed up a bit by the fact that in EP3, where Shannon and her entire servant brigade was definitely dead, the rifles were in their normal location. Or at least, somewhere the adults did not think it odd to see rifles. So there's a problem in why the EP5 and EP7 setup was different.

[Jan-Poo]

There's never been more than 4 rifles in this story so I doubt there are more.

There are two simple ways to explain this inconsistency

1) The Tea party is not reliable so why being surprised about inconsistencies?

2) There are two doors to get to the secret room, one requires people to solve the riddle and use that complicated mechanism, the other requires a special key which Beatrice already possesses. Beatrice simply realized that the adults were one step to solve the epitaph so she quickly arranged the new setup for what already was her "plan B". After all, how else can you explain how Beatrice was already there?

[Vylen]

The inconsistencies with Ep5 could be attributed to Bern and Lambda abusing the game so that it would be tackled in a ruthless mystery style.

Consequently, having Beatrice appear in the room of gold looking all gloomy and confessing to the crimes would be extremely anti-climactic. Plus, doing this wouldn't make it fun for Erika (and Bern by proxy) to corner the supposed culprit.

Well... that's one way to think about it anyway.