(L) ID: Invaded

[Wandering Soul]

So we finally get to see Hondomachi in the well and the first difference we see is that she oddly enough gets a full name. Personality wise she's the most focused of the detectives, but lacks Sakaido's concern for the other people.

I doubt anyone think its actually Momoki as he's pretty clearly a red herring. I just hope it isn't something as obvious as it's the director.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Some are saying she might be Kaeru because she looks like her, but I don't see it.

Have we seen this girl before? I thought this was the first she was mentioned.

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by kanon

Some are saying she might be Kaeru because she looks like her, but I don't see it.

Kaeru actually spoke in episode 3. She was "Kiki Asukai" in the credits...

[Arya]

One of the things I like about this story is that the narrative doesn't leave you guessing along, it "guesses" along with you, nor leaves you with unexplained odd behaviors, Koharu is main example. She always acted kinda oddly, in a dangerous way, so I'm glad it has been addressed.

Side note, on the previous episode I'm with Kanon about our little detective-chan (as usual I'm having problems with names), her primary goal was to get the particles. Otherwise she wouldn't have turn on the machine putting it on the table beforehand. He reaction afterward was quite telling after all. The fact that she solved also the situation was just tangential, as much as the safety of anyone involved. Instead the fact she enjoyed killing came kinda from nowhere. But I missed some steps the prev episode either on how our sherlock-chan deducted the girl was the mastermind.

Speaking of John Walker, yeah, definitely Sakaido's friend has been framed, I just wonder how JW was able to set up all the evidences (curious to see what will be the "incredible" exclamation we heard from the tablet). Sure they seem to be working 24/7 so Sakaido's friend probably won't go back home that often after all. Do he have a family himself though?

Well, anyways, my bets are on that long haired guy of the crew (not really convinced, but it may happen, it would remind me of The Bone Collector) and of course the detective.
A requisite is that people had to have met with JW to have him in their well, so I doubt the director had met Sakaido, instead the Detective knew him from before. He also has a keen "eye" when it comes to screen people's murderous intents or even just a more general intent. Exactly the skill required to elect the right candidates to become serial killers. As much as to elect a candidate as brilliant detective. He was certain sherlock chan would have been fit for the job.
And the remark he made back then about Sakaido still rings in my head as odd.
(Stil i can't see him be the real JW though).

Oh, btw, why Sakaido is detained in the same place as the SKs. I mean, he doesn't qualify as a serial killer. And the suicides happened later.

Originally Posted by GDB

Have we seen this girl before? I thought this was the first she was mentioned.

I thought the same.

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Kaeru actually spoke in episode 3. She was "Kiki Asukai" in the credits...

Didn't she speak in Sakaido's dream? That was the only moment we saw her awake (alive) IIRC.

[Kanon]

I'm not trying to imply anything, but I thought it was interesting that Narihisago's wife committed suicide and that his chosen method to get rid of serial killers is to talk them into killing themselves. It's probably just because it's the only method available to him, though. I assume he's been locked up since he killed the Challenger.

I agree with Arya that Matsuoka is really suspicious. He seemed way too chill going into the Challenger's house, even kinda happy.

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

Kaeru actually spoke in episode 3. She was "Kiki Asukai" in the credits...

Oh, that settles it then.

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by Arya

Didn't she speak in Sakaido's dream? That was the only moment we saw her awake (alive) IIRC.

That was the scene in episode 3 I was referring to.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

That was the scene in episode 3 I was referring to.

I just pointed it out since being a dream I don't know how reliable it may be. But actually I'm missing the connection between Kaeru and Kiki Asukai, so I can easily be not on point on that. Even if it is a valid statement regardless.

[FlareKnight]

A lot of curious things to be sure. Hondomachi is certainly a good detective. If they can get her out of there...she'd be a fine alternative option to throw into the machine. She both bothered to alert people to the way to stay safe, but she doesn't seem to care that much beyond that. Doing the proper things, but being a bit detached at the same time. Kind of what you'd expect from someone with a hole in their head. It may honestly make her the best pure detective of the group. Although maybe the best detective isn't the best human being.

Obvious setup is obvious. Not like Momoki was left out of the investigation here. If he really was John Walker there's no way he'd leave all that stuff at his own place. Though depending on when the body was buried this was clearly a long term plot put in motion. I'd hope that would be equally obvious to Narihisago, but I kind of get it. When it comes to John Walker and frankly the loss of his family there just isn't objectivity.

A lot of unusual stuff though in this episode. You have the machine within a machine thing. There's the mystery about who specifically set up Momoki. And just where this will all lead to. It was kind of refreshing I suppose to see Narihisago just show up and shoot the heck out of the Challenger. No complaints there. No reason to play into his fighting game. Just get in there and finish it.

[BBOvenGuy]

There was a live-action drama a few years ago about a young female detective who didn't feel emotional responses and didn't understand other people's emotions. It looked like a pretty clear case of Asperger's to me, but the other characters were all like, "What's wrong with her? Is she a monster? Will she turn into a murderer?" Hondomachi doesn't read as an Aspie to me, but she might have at least some of the traits.

It made me think that Asperger's and similar conditions must be terrifying and bewildering in a society like Japan's, where so much depends on picking up social cues and keeping things harmonious.

[Jimmy C]

Originally Posted by Arya

I just pointed it out since being a dream I don't know how reliable it may be. But actually I'm missing the connection between Kaeru and Kiki Asukai, so I can easily be not on point on that. Even if it is a valid statement regardless.

The fact that they credited her role as Kiki Asukai means it's quite reliable. Kaeru has a connection to Kiki that the show creators want the audience to know. There's also the picture of Kiki in ep7, she's pretty much Kaeru with different colored hair, I think she even has the same green eyes.

I suspect Kaeru isn't a "default" of the Mizuhanome as the team has been assuming all this time.

Hopefully, there will be some answers next episode.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

A lot of curious things to be sure. Hondomachi is certainly a good detective. If they can get her out of there...she'd be a fine alternative option to throw into the machine. She both bothered to alert people to the way to stay safe, but she doesn't seem to care that much beyond that. Doing the proper things, but being a bit detached at the same time. Kind of what you'd expect from someone with a hole in their head. It may honestly make her the best pure detective of the group. Although maybe the best detective isn't the best human being.

Agreed, but what they want of a "great detective" in the well isn't someone who'll save lives. It's not like there are actually people to start with.

Obvious setup is obvious. Not like Momoki was left out of the investigation here. If he really was John Walker there's no way he'd leave all that stuff at his own place. Though depending on when the body was buried this was clearly a long term plot put in motion. I'd hope that would be equally obvious to Narihisago, but I kind of get it. When it comes to John Walker and frankly the loss of his family there just isn't objectivity.

I don't think he's quite convinced. He wants to look at Momoki's well for himself. Which is a bit of a problem in that it assumes Momoki's got one, but that may be a result of all the diving he's done.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I don't think he's quite convinced. He wants to look at Momoki's well for himself. Which is a bit of a problem in that it assumes Momoki's got one, but that may be a result of all the diving he's done.

There will be a well to dive into. I don't think Id wells are specifically tied to a person, considering they mistook who the Gravedigger was twice.

It probably won't be Momoki's, but any ID well from the scene of the crime would give some clues on the true culprit regardless.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Arya

Side note, on the previous episode I'm with Kanon about our little detective-chan (as usual I'm having problems with names), her primary goal was to get the particles. Otherwise she wouldn't have turn on the machine putting it on the table beforehand.

She may have been using it as an early warning system. It's imperfect and it didn't work, but that is a way the cops use it.

Or yes, she may have been wanting cognition particles because without them, her case against Inami was a bit light.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Jimmy C

The fact that they credited her role as Kiki Asukai means it's quite reliable. Kaeru has a connection to Kiki that the show creators want the audience to know. There's also the picture of Kiki in ep7, she's pretty much Kaeru with different colored hair, I think she even has the same green eyes.

I suspect Kaeru isn't a "default" of the Mizuhanome as the team has been assuming all this time.

Hopefully, there will be some answers next episode.

Thanks, the picture was the missing part I didn't recollect.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

She may have been using it as an early warning system. It's imperfect and it didn't work, but that is a way the cops use it.

Or yes, she may have been wanting cognition particles because without them, her case against Inami was a bit light.

I thought it was the second one. I rewatched the sequence, it happened at the beginning of ep. 6, and she took and activated the particles sensor while telling to shoot the girl. So I thought she just wanted to catch the culprit, what made the difference is her detached behavior that is, well, completely detached. She just chose the best plan that would have granted her the best result, so, catching the serial killer and gathering his particles. That to the detriment of everything else that a normal person would take in account while evaluating all the possible outcomes. Certainly normally her chances to hit him with her gun would have been higher than what actually happened. He was an effing ninja even not considering the hilarious shot that passed perfectly through his head hole (event that I'd prefer to forget ). That's what I thought.

But that particular event (head hole shot) I think was there to make clear one thing: her intent to kill. She aimed at his head, when for anyone it would be easier and even natural to aim at the body. Not just natural, but I think that's how police officers are trained. So in the end we should take the detective words as on point. He said that she used the particle sensor as pretext to kill him. As she actually did. Prerequisites to be a brilliant detective also confirmed his hypotesis.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I agree with Arya that Matsuoka is really suspicious. He seemed way too chill going into the Challenger's house, even kinda happy.

It isn't really anything he'd need to be on guard for, though. The only resident had been dead for 3 years.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by GDB

It isn't really anything he'd need to be on guard for, though. The only resident had been dead for 3 years.

This is still a place where horrible things happened, so him saying stuff like "now that's more like a serial killer's house!" with a smile on his face is a bit odd.

[GDB]

He's a cop, they're used to this kind of stuff. In fact, any cop that gets squeamish about entering a house just because bad things happened there years ago either shouldn't be on the force or only just joined the force.

[shmaster]

I guess the well is the reason that Asukai went missing?
And if this is the case, Momoki might really be the one who murdered the maker of the well, for whatever happened to Asukai.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by GDB

He's a cop, they're used to this kind of stuff. In fact, any cop that gets squeamish about entering a house just because bad things happened there years ago either shouldn't be on the force or only just joined the force.

As a general note I'd agree that he's a cop and that's just that kind of stuff. Still that's not exactly any house, that's the house of a SK who brutally killed the daughter of a colleague, whose wife then killed herself, colleague who got understandably crazy and his life went so south that it should at least give you the chills despite whatever you may think about him.
He seems to have a very strict sense of duty. If you don't stay in that line you are not worthy, in a sense there's some similarity with Koharu-chan coldness, but in his case is selective.
The detail that refrain me to be fully convinced he is JW is how much apparently he cares for his peers, I mean, he saw Koharu-chan as dangerous to move the strings to pur her away from the fieldwork. Still it could be also his drive in some convoluted way, like say, people that are potential SK will become such sooner or later so he is just pushing them like it was a controlled explosion. In any case things don't add up.

Another option is that JW is a virtual / "cognitive" entity, maybe of the creator himself, who got killed or just went too far (and maybe Sakaido's friend had to bury him for some reasons) and now he can dive freely from a subconscious to another and he can manipulate the subject more or less easily depends on the specific subconscious's strength. Those who resist, the strong willed ones, fall into the Sakaido and Koharu-chan.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Arya

Another option is that JW is a virtual / "cognitive" entity, maybe of the creator himself, who got killed or just went too far (and maybe Sakaido's friend had to bury him for some reasons) and now he can dive freely from a subconscious to another and he can manipulate the subject more or less easily depends on the specific subconscious's strength. Those who resist, the strong willed ones, fall into the Sakaido and Koharu-chan.

That wouldn't explain the monitoring equipment found in all the serial killers' houses.