Code Geass (Generic discussion thread)

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

Now for Code Geass. I thought it was very symbolic how lelouch died dressed in mainly white having his arms shaped like the cross like he has been cruxified breaking the cycle of hatred (sin) for people can move forward. Of course I cannnot really compare him to Jesus, but that was what Sunrise was trying to go for even though some of us extremely disagree in the methods lelouch used.

Well, there are also people who disagree with Jesus, so... xD
The Death Note anime, too, went for such a comparison - or at least, that's what that one scene looks like to many people, although they didn't try to compare Light to Jesus. I don't see the problem - it's not something that never happened before in anime, and the symbolism fits where it's supposed to.

[roriconfan]

As sad as it sounds, it is really hard for people to follow the way of life a saint or wise man proposed if not even his followers knew what he wanted. I mean, look at all the confusion about what someone said and what he meant and what came out of it. If people don't even know what the heck any messiah tried to say and having a bunch of idiots continuing his work, well, how can you NOT do nothing but sin?

Although in the case of Zero, he was closer to a social reformer than a saint, since his only doctrine was liberty through force and exploitation.
But we can all imagine what so-called specialists will start spouting when trying to explain why Euphy ordered the Elevens to be killed or who was Zero all this time. Anarchy and chaos will only come out of all that misinformation.

[yvj]

Some could argue that Lelouch would have ended up doing more good as Emperor and making peace with the alliance instead of starting the war, dabbling in genocide and becoming a "martyr"

[Knightrunner]

Originally Posted by yvj

Some could argue that Lelouch would have ended up doing more good as Emperor and making peace with the alliance instead of starting the war, dabbling in genocide and becoming a "martyr"

I believe if Lelouch and Schniezel would have gotten along they both would make good emperors. Nobody can mess with them and they can purge out corruption effectively.

Now they have to settle with a martyr, a geassed slave to Suzaku being Zero, and Ougi ruling over Japan. Zero Req. sure bites when it comes to outcomes but I have to admit watching the battle at the time was entertaining and it still is.

[Worriors1]

Originally Posted by yvj

Some could argue that Lelouch would have ended up doing more good as Emperor and making peace with the alliance instead of starting the war, dabbling in genocide and becoming a "martyr"

I would argue that point alot, really. Ain't no reason to go and make matters worse when you have the power to make them better. Just unite the people differently again. Civil projects, community projects, ect.

[azul120]

Zero Requiem happened because Lelouch lost his will to live, following a certain Wall Banger of an Et Tu Brute, committed by, as mentioned last page, a couple characters who got the happy ending.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

...Okay, I'll just come clean. Sod it

The future he could've given Kallen wasn't the best he could've given. That is my beef with it. Hell, he could've given the entire world a better future then Zero Requiem. But there you have it.

A person with a tendency to betray also being the one to decide peace or war
A incredibly naive and stupid character being the prime minister of Japan
A ridiculously fragile peace that hangs on the balance of politics 'playing nice'... Yeah, be back to war in no time.

I would like to believe people would realize how fragile the peace was, and then try to strengthening it so it wouldn't be so easily destroyed... But you go in hoping for the best, and expecting the worse unfortunately.

don't forget the MAIN problem with this scenario
zero wasn't exactly a hermit who lives on a mountain
zero is a character the entire world knows, with skills and abilities that are famous all around the world

so having suzaku play this role, when its quite clear that he is a completely different person, with none of the skills zero is famous for, is practiclly guaranteed to make people suspect who he is
you could make an argument that suzaku would try his best to play the part... right up until you remember that the first thing that "zero" does is run at full speed while dodging bullets, jumps over a KMF, and then stabs someone with a sword
this is suppose to be the same guy who's physical state is so unimpressive that he's usually reliant on the protection of a high-school girl

and thats not even counting the OOBK themselves, who know Lelouch was zero, and turned on him because they couldn't stand his horrible methods once they became apparent to them
if even one of them decides to expose the fact zero isn't the real one, then suzaku loses credibility
after all, its just a mask, worn by a guy who clearly acts differently then the original

[roriconfan]

^ The mask is a symbol. It doesn't matter who wears it but what it represents. When all those thousands of people were dressed as Zero, they were not pretending to be him. The simply followed what the mask represented.

The flesh dies but the ideal lives on.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

^ The mask is a symbol. It doesn't matter who wears it but what it represents. When all those thousands of people were dressed as Zero, they were not pretending to be him. The simply followed what the mask represented.

The flesh dies but the ideal lives on.

zero is NOT just a mask
its a role whos job is critical in reshaping the world to the way Lelouch wanted it to be
suzaku has to spend his entire LIFE rebuidling the world and directing it towards the direction that he and Lelouch wanted it to take
if it turns out Lelouch's CO-CONSPIRATOR is pretending to be a hero for killing an evil emperor he helped put in power in the first place - then it all goes to hell

[roriconfan]

I don't know, it is rather easy to replace one persona with another. Many series with animals for example were using several animals to play the same role. Not to mention the Doctor Who role has been switched so many times yet it is part of the mythos of the series. Heck, even Jesus himself is portraited differently in each gospel.

All these are really simple and almost bad examples but I still think it is not impossible for an impostor to take over a role, even without having equal traits. In the 1984 book for example, The Big Brother was always the same old guy despite a century had past since he took charge. A double could be used. In my country, most people vote families and not ideologies. The two biggest parties always were these two families, and their leaders always passed from father to son. People vote the original founder and not his son, questioning were is the democracy in a system were a deceased figurehead is still important enough to vote his party, even if his sons are clearly doing a poor job.

If all the people in the world were smart and educated, such tricks could never work. But most people are in fact quite gullible. How hard was it for Coca Cola to give Santa Claus the image he has today? How hard was it to make up a Saint called Valentine in order to sell chocolates? How about all the conspiracies we hear from time to time like we never went to the moon? Maybe all the people in sects who every year commit suicide because their God commands it?

This is why I say it is easy to fool the world even if Suzaku is not Lulu. Heck, CC and that female ninja impersonated him and nobody even found out they were women under the mask. How hard is it to fool the populace of the series if even someone one feet shorter and with bigger boobs than Lulu can pull it off? Suzaku can be mute as a fish and nobody would care after awhile. He will be nothing more than a figurehead with his own council and advisers.

[bladeofdarkness]

except zero is expected to be an expert politician
a brilliant strategist
and a charismatic leader
suzaku is a glorified pilot, and having him be "as mute as a fish" would only farther demonstrate that fact

people are bound to notice sooner rather then later that something is off
especially since he acts COMPLETELY different from what zero is suppose to be
zero, the man who was britannia's greatest enemy, is now for all intent and purpose, the britannian empresses babysitter
its not something believable for any real length of time, and if exposed, would lead to a disaster that would render Lelouch's sacrifice moot
which i have to admit, i don't really have a problem with

i never did like the overall message of the ending
that you can build a utopia based on hate lies and mass murder, and all is fine and dandy

[Revolutionist]

If the nobility was abolished how come Nunnaly is queen?

[roriconfan]

Let's add that all the Black Knights, relatives and close supporters of Lulu must also be mute as fish, for they all know who Zero really was. The need to replace him with another figurehead is even greater if they want their way to work.

[bladeofdarkness]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Let's add that all the Black Knights, relatives and close supporters of Lulu must also be mute as fish, for they all know who Zero really was. The need to replace him with another figurehead is even greater if they want their way to work.

and all it takes is ONE person who decides that falling for the same trick twice (accepting a man in a mask) is a bad idea

hell, even if they demand that he reveals his identity only to THEM the whole thing would fall apart (other then kallen and toudo, who's going to accept suzaku)

[Lost Cause]

I'm with Blade on this one! And besides all of the conspiricy thinking, I'd really like to know how the OOBK is going to except the return of the one who "used them as pawns" for his own designs as the "protector of freedom"? For lack of a better term.
Didn't they learn their lesson the first time?

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

If the nobility was abolished how come Nunnaly is queen?

In the same way that Lelouch was Emperor despite ordering the above. It's a title.

[roriconfan]

Lelouch probably went for the same thing Napoleon did. Got rid of the old aristocracy in the name of liberty and then crowned himself emperor.

[Revolutionist]

Liberté, égalité, fraternité

ironically Napoleon upheld that better than the Robespierre-led Convention lol. That just goes to prove that "democracy" and the common man can be just as corrupt and ruthless as an absolute monarchy, and sometimes an Emperor can be better.

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Lost Cause

I'm with Blade on this one! And besides all of the conspiricy thinking, I'd really like to know how the OOBK is going to except the return of the one who "used them as pawns" for his own designs as the "protector of freedom"? For lack of a better term.
Didn't they learn their lesson the first time?

While Lelouch wasn't exactly looking out for all of their best interests, the BKs themselves were manipulated into getting the wrong idea by Schneizel. They, especially Ohgi, weren't any better during that betrayal.

In addition to what blade said, the ending of CG was that you can get away with incompetence and betrayal as long as you make a good everyman, and that you can get away with being on the wrong side if you schlep the guy in the end.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by yvj

Some could argue that Lelouch would have ended up doing more good as Emperor and making peace with the alliance instead of starting the war, dabbling in genocide and becoming a "martyr"

Some could argue Lelouch could've ended up doing more good/causing less harm if he skipped the first 45 eps of stuff and just killed Charles and geassed the royal court right off the bat.