Gundam in the US / Canada

[hobbes_fan]

Still no proof. Just more ranting. Back to ignore you go. Even if it did well in those 2 countries, it aired in how many more? at least 4 or 5 more countries. How did it do there? What did they see?

Before you starting slinging insults, I'd try to provide a coherent argument with facts that can be proved (not facts that you've made up) in English first.

Calling me high is probably not your best defense. I read my posts and they make sense. Most people thnk they make sense. Your posts look like ramblings of someone who's been sniffing too much glue.

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by hobbes_fan

Still no proof. Just more ranting. Back to ignore you go. Even if it did well in those 2 countries, it aired in how many more? at least 4 or 5 more countries. How did it do there? What did they see? It pretty much bombed here.

Before you starting slinging insults, I'd try to provide a coherent argument with facts that can be proved (not facts that you make up) in English first.

don't you read the ANN's of gs http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...ime.php?id=883 & wiki's of gs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gundam_Seed ?!

besides these are countries that gs has been seen.

besides gsd is still not yet shown in u.s. tv yet despite the 1st country to show gsd in english was the phils.

[hobbes_fan]

Goddamn it's like talking to a brick wall. Didn't I already say it aired in 4 or 5 other countries outside the Phils and the US? READ MY POSTS PROPERLY.

To put it simply

1. I WANT YOU TO PROVIDE TV VIEWER RATINGS OF COUNTRIES THAT GOT THE EDITED AND UNEDITED VERSION
2. I WANT YOU TO PROVIDE ME PROOF OF WHAT VERSION THAT THESE COUNTRIES THESE 5 or 6 OUTSIDE OF THE US AND PHILLIPINES GOT. DID THEY GET THE EDITED OR UNEDITED.
3. YOU'VE SAID IT DID WELL OVERSEAS. SHOW ME TV RATINGS TO PROVE IT DID WELL.

I want to know how you can come up with a conclusion the FCC has a vendetta against GS. Considering there are other countries on that list with much stricter regulations than the US.

Why am I even bothering arguing this with you? You don't even live in the US

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by hobbes_fan

Goddamn it's like talking to a brick wall. Didn't I already say it aired in 4 or 5 other countries outside the Phils and the US? READ MY POSTS PROPERLY.

To put it simply

1. I WANT YOU TO PROVIDE TV VIEWER RATINGS OF COUNTRIES THAT GOT THE EDITED AND UNEDITED VERSION
2. I WANT YOU TO PROVIDE ME PROOF OF WHAT VERSION THAT THESE COUNTRIES THESE 5 or 6 OUTSIDE OF THE US AND PHILLIPINES GOT. DID THEY GET THE EDITED OR UNEDITED.
3. YOU'VE SAID IT DID WELL OVERSEAS. SHOW ME TV RATINGS TO PROVE IT DID WELL.

I want to know how you can come up with a conclusion the FCC has a vendetta against GS. Considering there are other countries on that list with much stricter regulations than the US.

Why am I even bothering arguing this with you? You don't even live in the US

excuse but the reason gs series is doing great oversea besides how can i find oversea ratings besides there many gs fans that one of the many reasons gs is doing fine in the oversea.

but in u.s. tv they just ruin gs with their edits & censors so they can focus on other tv shows with high ratings.

to me i think that FCC don't have the guts to show gs in unedited version cause it's more omg than the other shows.

so it's the FCC & u.s. tv that are guilty for screwing gs in the u.s.

[srb]

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

excuse but the reason gs series is doing great oversea besides how can i find oversea ratings besides there many gs fans that one of the many reasons gs is doing fine in the oversea.

So? There's tons of anime fans in my country and there's been a total of five anime shows aired in the last couple of years.

You CAN'T prove that it failed in the US with the edited version and rocked in other countries with the unedited WITHOUT being able to present the ratings.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by srb

You CAN'T prove that it failed in the US with the edited version and rocked in other countries with the unedited WITHOUT being able to present the ratings.

Those ratings are often unavailable or very difficult to acquire. However, they're also not particularly necessary. This thread is about the success of Gundam on American television, and it's quite obvious that Gundam Seed didn't do very well there - not only did its timeslot get changed midway through the broadcast (I've heard that it had better ratings after the move), but the Cartoon Network has dropped it off the radar with nary a hint that it was interested in acquiring Destiny. To have an idea how well Gundam Seed may have done if it had been handled better, we have to look at a market that's fairly similar to the U.S. Of all the countries in the world, Canada comes the closest by far.

And in Canada, Gundam Seed was popular enough that it's basically never been off the air since the original broadcast. Moreover, YTV more or less embraced Destiny largely due to the popularity of Seed. Currently, it's running in Seed's old timeslot. Even without any ratings statistics, it's rather obvious that Gundam Seed performed much better on YTV than on the Cartoon Network. While it may be unfair to pin all of the difference on Williams Street's edits, it's the one tangible difference between the two broadcasts. By the way, note that YTV simply doesn't release their ratings information.

That said, D-KLAC is sort of wrong in blaming the FCC for the edits. FCC has no jurisdiction over cable networks, so they couldn't have been directly responsible. Instead, the Cartoon Network's BS&P, Williams Street, and Bandai's insistence on a Y7 rating are much more likely to be the culprits.

By the way, if anyone really needs to know about the ratings and such, I suggest that you ask Pepperidge nicely. His website is basically about this kind of stuff, so he'll probably know far more than anyone else here.

[hobbes_fan]

Spoiler for 4tran quote:

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Those ratings are often unavailable or very difficult to acquire. However, they're also not particularly necessary. This thread is about the success of Gundam on American television, and it's quite obvious that Gundam Seed didn't do very well there - not only did its timeslot get changed midway through the broadcast (I've heard that it had better ratings after the move), but the Cartoon Network has dropped it off the radar with nary a hint that it was interested in acquiring Destiny. To have an idea how well Gundam Seed may have done if it had been handled better, we have to look at a market that's fairly similar to the U.S. Of all the countries in the world, Canada comes the closest by far.

And in Canada, Gundam Seed was popular enough that it's basically never been off the air since the original broadcast. Moreover, YTV more or less embraced Destiny largely due to the popularity of Seed. Currently, it's running in Seed's old timeslot. Even without any ratings statistics, it's rather obvious that Gundam Seed performed much better on YTV than on the Cartoon Network. While it may be unfair to pin all of the difference on Williams Street's edits, it's the one tangible difference between the two broadcasts. By the way, note that YTV simply doesn't release their ratings information.

That said, D-KLAC is sort of wrong in blaming the FCC for the edits. FCC has no jurisdiction over cable networks, so they couldn't have been directly responsible. Instead, the Cartoon Network's BS&P, Williams Street, and Bandai's insistence on a Y7 rating are much more likely to be the culprits.

By the way, if anyone really needs to know about the ratings and such, I suggest that you ask Pepperidge nicely. His website is basically about this kind of stuff, so he'll probably know far more than anyone else here.

See you have a coherent argument and you make valid and excellent points. However, I want KLAC to provide some substance to his points rather than "BLAH BLAH BLAH GS ROOLZ EVERYTHING ELSE SUXXORS> IT"S SO l33t THAT GOVERNMENTS ARE SCARED" WTF kind of discussion point is that? It's baseless and unsubstantiated.

[4Tran]

That's true, but you'd be better off attacking D-KLAC's points (such as they are). The suggestion that the Cartoon Network wanted Seed to fail so that they could focus on more popular shows is particularly easy to criticize.

[Gundam Zero Force]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

That's true, but you'd be better off attacking D-KLAC's points (such as they are). The suggestion that the Cartoon Network wanted Seed to fail so that they could focus on more popular shows is particularly easy to criticize.

Would Cartoon network really do that? I mean did they want Seed to fail?? It's just dissapointing all around that there is no more Gundam on tv . . . .not that I have the time to watch tv but, when Gundam Wing, G Gundam and MS 08th Team was aired I could easily find the DVD's in stores. I sadly missed Seed when it was on tv and it is almost impossible to find the complete collection in a store . . . . and the internet is really expensive b/c I can't find a complete set like I did with gundam Wing . . . .

I guess what I am getting at is if a show airs on tv there is a greater chance the anime will be in stores too . . . . . I could be dead wrong but it makes sense in a way. When it gets aired on tv it promotes the show and then the dvd sales go along with it.

I am such an idiot for missing Gundam Seed when it was on tv. I was so busy back then and I really regret missing that show, I have yet to see even an episode of Seed or Seed Destiny . . . .

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by Gundam Zero Force

Would Cartoon network really do that? I mean did they want Seed to fail?? It's just dissapointing all around that there is no more Gundam on tv . . . .not that I have the time to watch tv but, when Gundam Wing, G Gundam and MS 08th Team was aired I could easily find the DVD's in stores. I sadly missed Seed when it was on tv and it is almost impossible to find the complete collection in a store . . . . and the internet is really expensive b/c I can't find a complete set like I did with gundam Wing . . . .

No. The Cartoon Network would never intentionally cause a show to fail without a very unusual reason. It looks like Bandai overplayed their hand in trying to create a large audience. The Cartoon Network run ended over two years ago, so if the show didn't sell that, then it's quite common for the retail stores to stop stocking more copies. I'm not sure if a complete set has ever been announced, but we'll probably see one within the next couple of years.

Originally Posted by Gundam Zero Force

I guess what I am getting at is if a show airs on tv there is a greater chance the anime will be in stores too . . . . . I could be dead wrong but it makes sense in a way. When it gets aired on tv it promotes the show and then the dvd sales go along with it.

You're absolutely correct. Usually, nothing gives a show more exposure than to put it on television. However, shows that weren't very successful will also get less space on the store shelves.

Originally Posted by Gundam Zero Force

I am such an idiot for missing Gundam Seed when it was on tv. I was so busy back then and I really regret missing that show, I have yet to see even an episode of Seed or Seed Destiny . . . .

Your best bet is to rent a volume or two of Seed, and see if you like it. I see that you're in Seattle, so you may be able to get YTV through your cable company - it's currently airing both shows.

[srb]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

Those ratings are often unavailable or very difficult to acquire. However, they're also not particularly necessary. This thread is about the success of Gundam on American television, and it's quite obvious that Gundam Seed didn't do very well there

Yes, I agree with you fully on what you're saying, but I was simply making the point that he can't literally "prove" any of his claims.

I'm also of the belief that showing a *finished* 50 episode anime series in a "one episode per week" schedule is a bad idea, by the way. At least worse than showing it two to three times a week - which is, of course, difficult to do without it first being a success.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by srb

Yes, I agree with you fully on what you're saying, but I was simply making the point that he can't literally "prove" any of his claims.

True; it's likely that D-KLAC can't substantiate many of his claims. However, you could have worded your request better as well. Besides, I had already pointed out the reasons why Gundam Seed may have been more successful in the U.S. if it had been handled better. The only counterargument against that which holds any weight is how mecha shows don't seem to be very popular in general in the U.S. But I wonder if even that is because the genre isn't handled particularly well by the American channels.

Originally Posted by srb

I'm also of the belief that showing a *finished* 50 episode anime series in a "one episode per week" schedule is a bad idea, by the way. At least worse than showing it two to three times a week - which is, of course, difficult to do without it first being a success.

Why do you think that it's such a bad idea? And how would showing it more often be advantageous?

[srb]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

However, you could have worded your request better as well.

True, but since English is my second language and I was very tired when I wrote it I have at least half of an excuse ^^.

Why do you think that it's such a bad idea? And how would showing it more often be advantageous?

Since following a show once a week for an entire year may be difficult for a lot of people, especially if it "drags on" or has bad pacing or whatever, it's more difficult to see if it "improves", based on a person's preferences.

Maybe I'm just used to the way that we do things with finished long-running TV shows here and syndicate them.

[Gundam Zero Force]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

No. The Cartoon Network would never intentionally cause a show to fail without a very unusual reason. It looks like Bandai overplayed their hand in trying to create a large audience. The Cartoon Network run ended over two years ago, so if the show didn't sell that, then it's quite common for the retail stores to stop stocking more copies. I'm not sure if a complete set has ever been announced, but we'll probably see one within the next couple of years.


You're absolutely correct. Usually, nothing gives a show more exposure than to put it on television. However, shows that weren't very successful will also get less space on the store shelves.


Your best bet is to rent a volume or two of Seed, and see if you like it. I see that you're in Seattle, so you may be able to get YTV through your cable company - it's currently airing both shows.

ok cool, I ddin't know an official complete collection set of Seed has not been released yet, no wonder I couldn't find something like that b/c it doesn't exist yet lol. I've seen a few trailers for Gundm Seed and I do want to see the entire thing, it looks really cool and I guess I shall be patient and wait and see if a complete colection set comes out, I think it would be a bit less expensive buying it as a whole than buying each individual DVD.

Anyways it is reasurring to know that Cartoon network was not trying to make the show fail, it's just a big bummer Gundam is not aired on tv as much as it used to be.

[D-KLAC]

hello does anyone forgot this dumb sabatoge that u.s. & FCC did to gs the infamous http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disco_Guns

geez here the things that u.s. tv did to gs

United States
On April 17, 2004, an edited version of the English dub premiered at 10:30 p.m. on Cartoon Network's Toonami block, which ran on Saturday nights. On October 23, 2004, it was moved to 1:00 a.m. on Saturdays starting with episode 27 due to below average ratings.

The majority of the series was aired with a TV-Y7, apparently, at the insistence of Bandai who were desperately trying to push the new Gundam SEED toy line. However, since most retailers had stopped carrying the Gundam line due to over-saturation from the G Gundam series, this soon became a lost cause. Only the final episode was given the TV-PG-SV rating rather than the usual TV-Y7 rating.

Things that were edited out on Cartoon Network include mature content (e.g. most references to the sexual relationship between Kira and Flay — though the initial scene presenting this was left partially intact); scenes of intense combat violence (e.g. almost all shots of pilots, including main characters, in their cockpits before having their machines destroyed); cold-blooded or brutal murders that are non-mobile suit related (e.g. Siegel Clyne getting shot by ZAFT soldiers loyal to Rau Le Creuset and Patrick Zala); all references to the fact that the "Living CPUs" need to take performance enhancing drugs; and most notoriously, handguns being sloppily and inconsistently transformed into neon-colored lasers, dubbed "Disco Guns" by fans, for the majority of the show's run. Also, there was little to no use of the words "kill" or "die" in the middle of the series airing, with the phrase "taking his/her life" or some variant of the phrase in the place of either word. In one instance during the shows desert arc, references to a character being an arms dealer were removed, turning the character into a "water dealer".

Since most of the series had been edited by Williams Street before broadcast, Cartoon Network changed very little in terms of content allowance. However, the airings of the final two episodes were left mostly unedited, with only a few elements being affected — namely the guns used by Muruta Azrael, Patrick Zala, and one of the ZAFT soldiers (which was given neon-colored lights in certain but not all of the image frames), airbrushing the naked Flay's body in the final episode to avoid showing her cleavage, reducing the amount of blood shown, editing the character's lines to remove either inappropriate language or controversial lines, and the removal or altering of flashbacks of graphic assassinations.

having nearly every ep tv-y7 are you kidding me besides gs series was for the teen viewers & if was unedited it would be tv-pg or tv-14!!!

but those u.s. tv & FCC backstab gs when they screwed everything with censors, edits, & disco guns cause that was a low blow of those no good u.s. tv & fcc did to gs cause they were afraid that japanese anime is dominating the u.s. cartoons so they want to screw anime by using gs as an example.

cause of that gs was really robbed by u.s. tv & FCC & if they did the same thing to gsd then get ready for the RIOT!!!

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by srb

Since following a show once a week for an entire year may be difficult for a lot of people, especially if it "drags on" or has bad pacing or whatever, it's more difficult to see if it "improves", based on a person's preferences.

If a show is too draggy, the number of episodes that air a week is likely to make no difference as to how well-received it is. For the most part, the pacing of the longer TV shows is good enough to pass the muster; if they didn't then they wouldn't have been popular enough to broadcast outside of Asia.

By the way, I think that most anime broadcasts in other countries will count more as first run shows than anything else. And as you brought up earlier, it's much harder for a television channel to commit more than the minimum time on a show that's an unknown quantity. That way, their risk is minimized if it turns out to be unsuccessful.

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

hello does anyone forgot this dumb sabatoge that u.s. & FCC did to gs the infamous http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disco_Guns

There's no need to post the wiki article. It's contents aren't in dispute at all.

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

having nearly every ep tv-y7 are you kidding me besides gs series was for the teen viewers & if was unedited it would be tv-pg or tv-14!!!

Tell that to Bandai - they're the ones who insisted on a Y7 rating. Their goal of trying to gain a life-long audience is laudable, but they completely ignored the realities of the American marketplace.

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

but those u.s. tv & FCC backstab gs when they screwed everything with censors, edits, & disco guns cause that was a low blow of those no good u.s. tv & fcc did to gs cause they were afraid that japanese anime is dominating the u.s. cartoons so they want to screw anime by using gs as an example.

This has nothing to do with the FCC - as has been stated several times before, they have no jurisdiction over cable television. All the edits were made by Williams Street (as the wiki article stated) to conform to the Cartoon Network's BS&P in order to fit the Y7 rating. While they may have gone a little overboard, there's absolutely no conspiracy here.

Moreover, on the Cartoon Network, their domestic cartoon shows generally perform much better than their anime offerings, so there's absolutely no reason for a conspiracy either. Heck, the only Gundam show to be much of a success on American airwaves was Gundam Wing, and that wrapped up six years ago. Every other Gundam show since has been relatively lacklustre, so why would they pick Gundam Seed, of all shows, to sabotage?

By the way, Gundam Wing was originally shown by the Cartoon Network in both an edited and an uncut formats. The changes in the broadcast standards for television means that this can no longer be done. Now, this is where you can blame the FCC, but they're only very peripherally involved.

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

cause of that gs was really robbed by u.s. tv & FCC & if they did the same thing to gsd then get ready for the RIOT!!!

Seed was unsuccessful, so it's likely that the Cartoon Network isn't even interested in Seed Destiny.

[D-KLAC]

Originally Posted by 4Tran

If a show is too draggy, the number of episodes that air a week is likely to make no difference as to how well-received it is. For the most part, the pacing of the longer TV shows is good enough to pass the muster; if they didn't then they wouldn't have been popular enough to broadcast outside of Asia.

By the way, I think that most anime broadcasts in other countries will count more as first run shows than anything else. And as you brought up earlier, it's much harder for a television channel to commit more than the minimum time on a show that's an unknown quantity. That way, their risk is minimized if it turns out to be unsuccessful.


There's no need to post the wiki article. It's contents aren't in dispute at all.


Tell that to Bandai - they're the ones who insisted on a Y7 rating. Their goal of trying to gain a life-long audience is laudable, but they completely ignored the realities of the American marketplace.


This has nothing to do with the FCC - as has been stated several times before, they have no jurisdiction over cable television. All the edits were made by Williams Street (as the wiki article stated) to conform to the Cartoon Network's BS&P in order to fit the Y7 rating. While they may have gone a little overboard, there's absolutely no conspiracy here.

Moreover, on the Cartoon Network, their domestic cartoon shows generally perform much better than their anime offerings, so there's absolutely no reason for a conspiracy either. Heck, the only Gundam show to be much of a success on American airwaves was Gundam Wing, and that wrapped up six years ago. Every other Gundam show since has been relatively lacklustre, so why would they pick Gundam Seed, of all shows, to sabotage?

By the way, Gundam Wing was originally shown by the Cartoon Network in both an edited and an uncut formats. The changes in the broadcast standards for television means that this can no longer be done. Now, this is where you can blame the FCC, but they're only very peripherally involved.


Seed was unsuccessful, so it's likely that the Cartoon Network isn't even interested in Seed Destiny.

yeah wing was ok until other gundam got screw by edits & censors besides u.s. tv laws has really been too far since 9/11 & superbowl malfunction.

geez gs was on cn but now gs is a free agent anime series maybe another network will bring back gs this time gs unedited vesion with gsd.

cause i don't trust cn u.s. version of their doing to animes.

[4Tran]

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

yeah wing was ok until other gundam got screw by edits & censors besides u.s. tv laws has really been too far since 9/11 & superbowl malfunction.

Contrary to popular belief, the September 11 tragedy didn't have much of an effect on broadcast standards in the U.S. Although it did serve as a convenient excuse for several corporate entities - the most relevant example being the Cartoon Network's supposed reason to cancel Mobile Suit Gundam (the real reason was poor ratings). However, the actions were largely voluntary, and none of them lasted beyond 2002. The Janet Jackson incident, is very different; it not only led to the FCC tightening their standards, but the backlash prompted television networks to making their BS&Ps much stronger. To this date, it's the main reason for television edits and the like.

Originally Posted by D-KLAC

geez gs was on cn but now gs is a free agent anime series maybe another network will bring back gs this time gs unedited vesion with gsd.

Unfortunately, the Cartoon Network was (and is), by far, the best venue for broadcasting anime in the U.S. While Nickelodeon may appeal to the proper demographic, they're pretty much restricted to showing just their own in-house cartoons. The alternatives aren't very good - stuff like the Sci-Fi channel or G4 have simply been not very good venues for building a broad fanbase. By the way, no company is going to be interested in damaged property, so Gundam Seed probably won't air again in the near future.

Another problem is that Bandai's mistakes has already poisoned the toy stores into believing that Gundam toys simply don't sell in the U.S., and they have perhaps done the same thing to Gundam as a broadcast show. Bandai has come out to say that they were trying to develop a Gundam show that would appeal more to American audiences, and I have a feeling that Gundam 00 is that very show. Only time will tell, but it's likely to be the next show that will be broadcast in the future. Hopefully, Bandai will get it right this time, because it might will dictate the fate of Gundam in the U.S. for the foreseeable future.

[Phantom-Takaya]

It's possible that if Cartoon Network or some other channel (that came with the usual cable package) had shown the Gundam series from first to most recent order instead of throw out what they thought was good in a back and forth manner, it may have had a chance of vitality. Of course, I don't believe that this was the only reason Gundam may be suffering in regards to television broadcasting. Others have also brought up other reasons, so I won't repeat what they've said.

[D-KLAC]

maybe there should be a petition to bring back gs series to u.s. tv & show it in the unedited version!!!