Mobile Suit Gundam 00 Second Season - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[nutype]

Originally Posted by Ardenor

I'm a little disappointed with Wang Liu Mei's demise.

I know there are many who frequent this forum who couldn't be happier to see her gone, and I respect their position. She's sinned. She hasn't been a very good person lately.

Bear with me. Think back to the Wang Liu Mei we were introduced to in the very first episode of season one. She was charming. She was endearing. And she seemed to be very popular among the community.

To be fair, she's always been very enigmatic, and we could never be sure what she was doing or why she was doing it. Still, at what point did things go south for her character?

In one season, she was the charming socialite with the wide and varied wardrobe who threw pool parties for the ladies of Celestial Being. In the next, she seemed to be the heartless bitch who turned on Celestial Being for no reason in particular. Or no reason we're privy to.

I kept hoping that she just lost her way. I thought maybe she was just misguided into thinking that Ribbons and the Innovators were the best hope for humanity.

But here in episode 21, we discover her life was spared by Nena's initial attack and I thought more than ever she'd realize the error of her ways and redeem herself in a way that the community at large could appreciate her again. Instead, she reasons the world must change for the sake of escaping her own twisted lineage as head of the Wang family... What? What does her lineage have to do with changing the world? If she despises her family and position within her family so much, why not simply excommunicate herself and start her life over on her own terms? I guess I just don't understand what her family or twisted upbringing she consciously despises has to do with siding with the people who wipe out entire countries with the push of a button.

But more than that, it just seemed like shoddy storytelling when she makes a real boneheaded decision that costs her her life. She refuses Setsuna's offer to escape together, opting to go her own way and seek her own path. I don't know about you guys, but if I had an armed assassin just outside wishing me dead, I think I'll go with the guy who for all intents and purposes is immortal in this story. Seriously, with Nena on the loose, why take that chance?

I think my problem is as a fan of Wang Liu Mei I had much greater expectations than that for her. From my point of view, if you took Hong Long and Wang Liu Mei completely out of the story from the very start, the story wouldn't be all that different. In retrospect, she wasn't really able to do anything, and that more than anything else is very disappointing for the development of her character.

Despite everything, I'm still enjoying Gundam 00 very much and I can't wait to see how things continue from this point on.

good post, it made me realise how sunrise didnt really give out any explanations about WLM. It was never explained why she was so committed to seeing the world change or why that idea brought her so much pleasure in the first place. Well it *was* explained but I think what sunrise gave us is a total cop-out even nena said wang is stupid. Based on this I wouldnt be surprised if other characters like ribbons, tieria, regene, etcetcetc are never explained.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by kakakka

The thoughts of it makes me understand a bit why she likes messing/toying with other people's business.

I suppose, maybe the fact that she couldn't take control of her own life made her wanting others to have the similar fate. I guess that is one interpretation of her character though its bit over analyzing.
Speaking of over analyzing I kinda see both Wang and Nena beyond their character, I could see them as symbol for the aspect in society that is willing to whatever they want even with sacrificing others, basically they are the people who are selfish and does not trust anyone. And it seems that trust or understanding of others is one of the theme in 00 so far.

[bkg9990]

Did Graham just said "Grans-Am" after the episode 22 preview?

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Just finished watching the ep now.

Pretty damn good episode. Louise is a crazy cunt....finally...Wang is dead...been waiting for this for a long time.

Regnant kicked ass aswell. GN Sword III ahoy!!

[kanon78]

Originally Posted by brightman

Seriously though....Now that Louise increasinlg resemble a typical gundam crazy, anyone still think she'll survive this?

Originally Posted by justpassingby

many are quoting you, might as well do it
I don't care if Louise survive this series or not

I bet a sixpack on Louise not dying, but If she remains in the state she is now after crushing Nena she's better off dead.

Finally no more Wang, that bitch is finally dead.
If Lyle is continuing on his "I accept your apologies for killing off my innovator-GF but I wanna shoot you in the back" I hope he meets Ali in a taxi cab soon...

Graham deserves better than to die in his so much wanted one on one duel with his favorite gundam/shonen. Let him be Kati Mannequins Ace; maybe patrick can learn some skills from him.
Also Somarie needs to stop bitching at Allelujah.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by bkg9990

Did Graham just said "Grans-Am" after the episode 22 preview?

Nope, though it would be nice if he does that .

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Funkatron

Agreed. I'm thoroughly enjoying S2, despite the "RAWR TRAINWRECK!" moaning

That always happens with the Sunrise show as I've tried to point out many times. I wonder why people still pay this much attention when people run through all of these cliches.

[Revolutionist]

Originally Posted by Ypocaramel

But you can also throw them in jail for life; have them arrested and tried upon the process of law. The fact you'd enjoy killing someone in a brutal manner, take the matter into your own hands and that you think whatever you call "human nature" is morally acceptable is just plain scary.

Obviously I was talking in the context of a tragedy like Louise's where her entire family was murdered at a party. If someone dear to me was killed in combat doing what they signed up for, I would feel less inclined to seek revenge. There's a big difference between someone fighting and killing another to stay alive, and someone just outright murdering people for no reason whatsoever. You want me to feel sympathy for sociopaths who kill for the lolz?

However, even then if say I had someone that was murdered by CB in an armed intervention you can rest assured I'd want to kill me a Gundam too, probably end up getting myself blown up too in the process lol but you get the point. Hopefully.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

Nope, though it would be nice if he does that .

No it wouldn't. It would be incredible cheesy and not cool.

We'd have a great laugh at it though.

[FruitsPunchSamurai]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

I suppose, maybe the fact that she couldn't take control of her own life made her wanting others to have the similar fate. I guess that is one interpretation of her character though its bit over analyzing.
Speaking of over analyzing I kinda see both Wang and Nena beyond their character, I could see them as symbol for the aspect in society that is willing to whatever they want even with sacrificing others, basically they are the people who are selfish and does not trust anyone. And it seems that trust or understanding of others is one of the theme in 00 so far.

The main motif of this series is changing the world whether for the greater good or the worse depending on your interpretations but to do so you must also change one aspect of oneself to realize this. Celestial Being is a great example of this each of the members desire the same goal and throughout the series each one has changed their outlook on life since their introduction (Setsuna no longer wishes to be just a destroyer, Allejuah now has a purpose, and Tieria's desire to be human) even Lyle is beginning to change to outlook he had in the beginning of the season after Anew's death, now the problem with Wang Liu Mei and Nena Trinity was the fact that they wanted to change the world just like Celestial Being just not themselves which is what caused their demise. Given Wang's situation she could have turned over a new leaf after witnessing her brother sacrificing himself to save her but instead was planning yet another farce to "change" the world by herself and Nena is just as worse she saw her brothers fate before her eyes and despite the fact any normal person would found a different outlet she did the exact opposite which is a clear sign that during those five years she never grew up and thus never saw the harm in her actions as a whole which made her death by the hands Louise more ironic than sympathetic. Honestly I like the fact that there was no BS flashback or sympathy music to go along with them dying because there was absolutely nothing to feel sorry for them for the sheer fact that they weren't willing to change themselves let alone to the world.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Nice to see that Regnant's huge claw figners serve a purpose.

[Ardenor]

Originally Posted by kakakka

She sided with the Thrones half of the first season. So the "180 degree turn" your talking about from s1 to s2 doesn't make sense.

That's true. She didn't change her allegiance between seasons exactly, but I think my point still stands. I guess what I'm getting at is what is it about the Thrones or Innovators that drew Wang Liu Mei away from Celestial Being? Maybe she just likes wanton destruction, but again, it's an explanation that's never really explored or expanded upon in any satisfying way.

[Terrestrial Dream]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

No it wouldn't. It would be incredible cheesy and not cool.

We'd have a great laugh at it though.

It's Graham he can make anything cool .

Originally Posted by FruitsPunchSamurai

The main motif of this series is changing the world whether for the greater good or the worse depending on your interpretations but to do so you must also change one aspect of oneself to realize this. Celestial Being is a great example of this each of the members desire the same goal and throughout the series each one has changed their outlook on life since their introduction (Setsuna no longer wishes to be just a destroyer, Allejuah now has a purpose, and Tieria's desire to be human) even Lyle is beginning to change to outlook he had in the beginning of the season after Anew's death, now the problem with Wang Liu Mei and Nena Trinity was the fact that they wanted to change the world just like Celestial Being just not themselves which is what caused their demise. Given Wang's situation she could have turned over a new leaf after witnessing her brother sacrificing himself to save her but instead was planning yet another farce to "change" the world by herself and Nena is just as worse she saw her brothers fate before her eyes and despite the fact any normal person would found a different outlet she did the exact opposite which is a clear sign that during those five years she never grew up and thus never saw the harm in her actions as a whole which made her death by the hands Louise more ironic than sympathetic. Honestly I like the fact that there was no BS flashback or sympathy music to go along with them dying because there was absolutely nothing to feel sorry for them for the sheer fact that they weren't willing to change themselves let along to the world.

Quality post, that is a great view on Wang and Nena, from what I am guessing that you are saying they are contrast to CB's character. With that explanation I would say that could be the reason why both characters stayed alive until now.

[kakakka]

I guess what I'm getting at is what is it about the Thrones or Innovators that drew Wang Liu Mei away from Celestial Being?

She believed that destruction would play a big part in world's revolution/change. Innovators and Thrones are in the same league of doing "destruction" or waging "wars" to bring world peace/unity. The question should be why, IMO. Even Hong Long stated how she's so obsessed with wars and stuff, and starts to wonder why.

The main motif of this series is changing the world whether for the greater good or the worse depending on your interpretations but to do so you must also change one aspect of oneself to realize this.

The change should start with oneself, as they said.

[MeesesGlokmah]

Wait. I might have missed something, but how did 00 have 2 GN Sword II's during the Setsuna/Graham fight? Didn't it sacrifice one earlier?

[Ypocaramel]

Originally Posted by Revolutionist

Obviously I was talking in the context of a tragedy like Louise's where her entire family was murdered at a party. If someone dear to me was killed in combat doing what they signed up for, I would feel less inclined to seek revenge. There's a big difference between someone fighting and killing another to stay alive, and someone just outright murdering people for no reason whatsoever. You want me to feel sympathy for sociopaths who kill for the lolz?

However, even then if say I had someone that was murdered by CB in an armed intervention you can rest assured I'd want to kill me a Gundam too, probably end up getting myself blown up too in the process lol but you get the point. Hopefully.

It isn't about Nena, its about you. Not only did you want to stop her, you wanted to kill her painfully. Think about it. Your whole solution all this time has been "Nena hurt me, kill her" and "Gundam hurt me, destroy it" when the whole show lately has been about Setsuna trying to find some other way to deal with problems.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by kakakka

She believed that destruction would play a big part in world's revolution/change. Innovators and Thrones are in the same league of doing "destruction" or waging "wars" to bring world peace/unity. The question should be why, IMO. Even Hong Long stated how she's so obsessed with wars and stuff, and starts to wonder why.


The change should start with oneself, as they said.

That sound a lot like the Milliardo Peacecraft plan at the end of Gundam Wing.

[FruitsPunchSamurai]

Originally Posted by kakakka

She believed that destruction would play a big part in world's revolution/change. Innovators and Thrones are in the same league of doing "destruction" or waging "wars" to bring world peace/unity. The question should be why, IMO. Even Hong Long stated how she's so obsessed with wars and stuff, and starts to wonder why.

The same can be said about Ali although his reasons are a lot simple to grasp than Wang's. He's an animal and killing is the only way he can make it in the world, he has no honor or pride in contrast to most villains since he's willing to run and fight another day than stick it out and die, so yes he's deplorable by any standards but he's essentially the most down to earth and honest character in the series. Which is why in pure essence he has to die to realize the show's message of changing the world. As I stated with Nena and Wang, Ali is a character that won't change his outlook on life like Celestial Being has but unlike Nena or Wang he's smart enough to not bite too much what he can chew and the fact that he has no real motive (which he claims is far too complicated for Setsuna to understand) we can assure that the world won't move on with him doing whatever he wants. Now whether he'll achieve Yazan status is another story but given the context of the story that's unlikely to happen.

[Ypocaramel]

Originally Posted by MeesesGlokmah

Wait. I might have missed something, but how did 00 have 2 GN Sword II's during the Setsuna/Graham fight? Didn't it sacrifice one earlier?

Spares; Setsuna did go back to base. Look at how the Cherdium was basically rebuilt and how many GN daggers Setsuna threw during S1.

[CombiHenge]

Originally Posted by Sander RX

The guy in the preview has Hercules' hairstyle and beard and Sergei's scar.Sergei and Hank didnt die!They merely fused into one ultimate cannon fodder commander lifeform!

Spoiler for Preview guy...:

Courtesy: 2ch