Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 33 Discussion / Poll

[Irenesharda]

You know what's so funny...a few epsiodes ago some were saying that IBO had no sense of stakes and no tension simply because:

1. Tekkadan has really never lost a battle.
2. Mika is a beast on the battlefield and wipes the floor with whoever is against them. And if not him, Akihiro and Shino would have picked up the slack.
3. Orga is a leader/strategist extraordinaire that can rally his men no matter what comes there way.

And yet in only an episode, suddenly we fear for Tekkadan, we have doubts in Orga, and we think to ourselves: "is this the one time they don't make it?"

I must applaud the writers in being able to twist the narrative and to have their main cast be on top and yet still have people fear for them, and wonder if they indeed will prevail this time around?
That's not easy. We've seen Orga's track record, Mika's, Akihiro's, and yet through cleverly done moments, we still fear that they may be on the road to ruin or disaster.

Last season was actually similar in the end. Will they pull through now, as they did then?

Originally Posted by Skaddix

Well he only told Carta their position when they were on the train. And to be honest that didn't matter because there is no way Tekkadan was going to lose that fight. I am sure McGillis figured out that Carta had zero chance in a fight against Mika. Much less if she had actually gotten the 3 on 3 fight she wanted.

Its not that I don't think McGillis would stab Tekkadan in the back to advance his goals. Its just based on what we know of his backstory he seems to be a kindred spirit. Beyond that there is nothing that suggest betraying Tekkadan would help him at all at this point.

Basically this. He DID tell Carta where they were, but it was only so Tekkadan could take her down. Think about it. If she had defeated them there, all of McGillis' work would have been for naught. He would have failed.

No one would have gotten Makanai there on time. Iznario would have installed Henri as PM and effectively taken over Arbrau. McGillis would still be stuck in "inspector" status, and his "father" would have simply gained more power.
All that work he did in setting up Gaelio, Ein, and promoting Tekkadan and Kudelia would have been wasted.

So, he had to have told Carta about them, knowing 100% that Tekkadan could take her out. Everything he had depending on it.

Wait a minute...it's funny but just as I was writing that, I realized that McGillis and Orga are a lot alike in that regard. Both will risk everything for the greater reward, and place their bets on Tekkadan.

Again, this is why I don't think he would betray them. He would gain nothing by it. And even once he gains power, he would still have a need for Tekkadan, and he would gain nothing by burning a bridge. He is smart enough to know he can't handle things all on his own. He would be sliming everything down from 7 people to 1. That's not easy.

And remember also that he's promoted not just Tekkadan, but Kudelia as well. He needs her too for the long term, and he would never have her cooperation if he stabbed Tekkadan in the back.

[~BC~]

What reason does McGillis have to betray Tekkadan? The more important question, for me, is what reason does he have to encourage a move that will inevitably cause conflict with Teiwaz and by extension compromise Tekkadan's current stability (which would be to his benefit to maintain)? I'm assuming this is him trying to undercut whatever he suspects Rustal has planned next (and the speculation that the latter might end up funding that one dissenter seems likely) but there's also the possibility he's trying to weaken them for something he has planned later.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

If McGillis' intention is only to use Tekkadan before getting rid of them, he didn't need to promise or offer them anything, and especially not something as big as control of Gjallarhorn Mars Branch.

Of course he did. It's all part of his manipulation of Orga. He proposes an ideal Orga has always been working towards but didn't even realize he wanted until McGillis put it into words.

[Rising Dragon]

If there's a conflict with Teiwaz, it'll be because of that one guy always second-guessing McMurdo's decisions concerning Tekkadan. If anything, Tekkadan's more likely to break away from Teiwaz over such a slight. As Orga said, they're kinda sick of being looked down upon...

[~BC~]

Whatever that guy does, unless it's done with McMurdo's blessing, can't be held against Teiwaz as a whole and Orga knows this. So I don't see them breaking away just on account of one fool overstepping his bounds. Although I don't doubt that a conflict with him will have some extra unforeseen consequences for Tekkadan.

[tdx]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

As for Teiwaz and Tekkadan, I think if there ever is a separation, I think at this point, they Tekkadan could find other avenues in order to build/fix their mobile suits. I think at this point, Orga's not going to split from Teiwaz because of this offer. He takes his vows and honor too seriously. It's the whole reason they never quit on the Kudelia job last season, or why he insisted on having Tekkadan take her to Earth themselves. Once he promises to do something, he keeps to it. And the blood oath he took is nothing to sneeze at.
If Teiwaz says no at this offer, than I think Orga will decline it. (It will definitely be brought up again, but for the time being be off the table) The only way I can see Orga separating from Teiwaz is if the group betrays Tekkadan so badly, costing his kids lives, and destroying their relationship so egregiously that for Orga, the vow between the two of them would be broken. I can see this happening either under McMurdo who shows some really dastardly true colors, or with fur coat dandy taking over.

As you said before Jasley doesn't look like he could best McMurdo--at least on his own. However, what if he was working with Rustal, the same way Orga works with McGillis? I can see Elion agreeing to help Jasley take over Teiwaz in exchange for helping him in some way with his plot against McGillis. Perhaps helping to get rid of one of his allies, such as Tekkadan? It's quite a very real possibility, especially seeing the fur coat idiot speaking to people in shadowy alleys. And Rustal is determined to indirectly make himself a personal enemy of Tekkadan, so we'll have to see where this goes.

Also, if that were to happen (Teiwaz betrayal), I think the Turbines would join Tekkadan. Perhaps there maybe more to that OP shot of Naze and Amida standing with Tekkadan at the end then simply for an awesome look?

That scene with McGillis was indeed foreboding, and a bit disconcerting. With him, you're never sure what he's really thinking behind those smug looks he's giving. On one hand, the looks and gestures could be showing his plan to use and control Tekkadan for his own gains before tossing them aside. On the other hand, it could be simply his dramatic way of showing his dark excitement for what is to come and what he's offering them. It all is rather uncertain, and you have to think that that was on purpose by the writers. It's a constant will-he-won't-he situation that keeps you from ever getting too comfortable.

Shidens are one thing, but due to how rare and anique Gundams are and how they require very personalized maintenance, I doubt many places can do the thorough type of maintenance Tekkadan's own mechanics are incapable of, for which Barbatos was sent to Teiwaz. I imagine if Tekkadan is ever through with Teiwaz, they will have to depend heavily on McGillis and his Montag company for servicing their Gundams properly.

As to Orga's honor, yes, he's honorable despite living the life full of shit and betrayal, and it's what I find quite admirable about him. At the same time, when Kudelia agreed to come under Teiwaz's protection and Barriston suggested that Orga's honor as a leader would be tarnished by her decision, Orga answered that it doesn't matter. So I suppose he kind of knows when to let it go and adapt to circumstances. Probably. Sometimes. Hopefully.

If Orga straight out declines Macky's offer, we won't have our highly entertaining show, now will we , so I wonder if maybe he feels kind of ready enough to start playing some low-key long-con double games? He's kinda forced to as it is now, since he'll have to help McGillis anyway, he promised it and reaffirmed his intent to McGillis this episode, even if Teiwaz doesn't like him to.

I find the Donomikols-Rustal alliance likely, too. McMurdo though, I feel, might step back and just gleefully watch with some popcorn in hand how Tekkadan+McGillis and Donomikols+Rustal fight it out, at the same time not forgetting to profit from the conflict and possible wars it instignates, along with Gordon. That way, he gets to keep his goody-daddy act and hands clean, thus ensuring the continued loyalty of Tekkadan.

Also, Barriston isn't exactly young, so what if he wants that internal war for a reason like assessing and choosing his possible successor? In which case, Naze will be involved one way or another.

As to Macky. I do believe that McGillis' romanticized view of Tekkadan is quite sincere at this point. However, with him, the true danger isn't in that he plans to betray his allies from the start, it's in that he likely will, with zero hesitation, if things aren't going his way and he sees a sudden better opportunity to advance his plans. Unlike the other participant of that scene Orga, who values things like honor and honesty and will stubbornly stick to his promises till the bitter end, Macky showed himself to be very flexible in that regard, and it's what makes him so dangerous and untrustworthy as an ally, imo.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by ~BC~

What reason does McGillis have to betray Tekkadan? The more important question, for me, is what reason does he have to encourage a move that will inevitably cause conflict with Teiwaz and by extension compromise Tekkadan's current stability (which would be to his benefit to maintain)? I'm assuming this is him trying to undercut whatever he suspects Rustal has planned next (and the speculation that the latter might end up funding that one dissenter seems likely) but there's also the possibility he's trying to weaken them for something he has planned later.

I think then that depends on if that was his intent. He can only make the offer, it is up to Orga as to whether he accepts it, and that would include weighing what's going on with Teiwaz. Does he want to spread his wings past the confines of Teiwaz or is he fine where he is? The decision is ultimately Orga's.

As for Macky, why would he want to weaken Tekkadan. He has absolutely no reason to. He needs them, to weaken them would weaken himself. Also, considering how much he genuinely admires Mika (and I can assure you that wasn't an act last week) would he really want to get on that guy's bad side? He knows for a fact what Tekkadan does to people that betray them. Why would he take that chance?

Of course he did. It's all part of his manipulation of Orga. He proposes an ideal Orga has always been working towards but didn't even realize he wanted until McGillis put it into words.

Actually, no he didn't. Again, he has no reason to manipulate Orga. Orga is already doing what he needs him to do. Realize that McGillis never asked for anything more than he has already asked for and that Orga has already agreed to give. To promise them something so extravagant simply as a form of manipulation would be ridiculously redundant.
Orga prizes money just as much. If that guy simply offered to quadruple or even give them 10x whatever he's paying them now, that would have been enough of a temptation. To offer control of Mars is way over anything needed for simple manipulation if that is indeed his plan.

Also realize how long this alliance is going to be. He and Tekkadan not only have the same enemy in Rustal, but also soon in Vidar. They are going to need each other for the majority, in not the rest of this series. So, again, it would be incredibly foolish to try to manipulate Orga that early if that was he goal as he wouldn't be able to keep it up for long. And McGillis is anything but foolish.

Originally Posted by ~BC~

Whatever that guy does, unless it's done with McMurdo's blessing, can't be held against Teiwaz as a whole and Orga knows this. So I don't see them breaking away just on account of one fool overstepping his bounds. Although I don't doubt that a conflict with him will have some extra unforeseen consequences for Tekkadan.

But Jasley is 2nd in command of Teiwaz, if say he gets too big for his britches and decides to take out McMurdo as he's beginning to think he's getting too soft in his old age. Teiwaz will go to him. And THEN where will that leave Tekkadan?

Originally Posted by tdx

Shidens are one thing, but due to how rare and anique Gundams are and how they require very personalized maintenance, I doubt many places can do the thorough type of maintenance Tekkadan's own mechanics are incapable of, for which Barbatos was sent to Teiwaz. I imagine if Tekkadan is ever through with Teiwaz, they will have to depend heavily on McGillis and his Montag company for servicing their Gundams properly.

As to Orga's honor, yes, he's honorable despite living the life full of shit and betrayal, and it's what I find quite admirable about him. At the same time, when Kudelia agreed to come under Teiwaz's protection and Barriston suggested that Orga's honor as a leader would be tarnished by her decision, Orga answered that it doesn't matter. So I suppose he kind of knows when to let it go and adapt to circumstances. Probably. Sometimes. Hopefully.

If Orga straight out declines Macky's offer, we won't have our highly entertaining show, now will we , so I wonder if maybe he feels kind of ready enough to start playing some low-key long-con double games? He's kinda forced to as it is now, since he'll have to help McGillis anyway, he promised it and reaffirmed his intent to McGillis this episode, even if Teiwaz doesn't like him to.

I find the Donomikols-Rustal alliance likely, too. McMurdo though, I feel, might step back and just gleefully watch with some popcorn in hand how Tekkadan+McGillis and Donomikols+Rustal fight it out, at the same time not forgetting to profit from the conflict and possible wars it instignates, along with Gordon. That way, he gets to keep his goody-daddy act and hands clean, thus ensuring the continued loyalty of Tekkadan.

Also, Barriston isn't exactly young, so what if he wants that internal war for a reason like assessing and choosing his possible successor? In which case, Naze will be involved one way or another.

As to Macky. I do believe that McGillis' romanticized view of Tekkadan is quite sincere at this point. However, with him, the true danger isn't in that he plans to betray his allies from the start, it's in that he likely will, with zero hesitation, if things aren't going his way and he sees a sudden better opportunity to advance his plans. Unlike the other participant of that scene Orga, who values things like honor and honesty and will stubbornly stick to his promises till the bitter end, Macky showed himself to be very flexible in that regard, and it's what makes him so dangerous and untrustworthy as an ally, imo.

I don't know, if Teiwaz has mechanics that can handle Gundams, I'm pretty sure there are others in the solar system that could as well. And if all else fails, they can always ask McGillis if he has any that he can spare. I mean, someone has got to be maintaining the Seven Stars Gundam units.

But anyway, I don't think Orga could really do long-con games very well. I don't think he has the kind of nature required to do that. It's the same reason he can't do politics well. He can't hid his true feeling behind a mask and get all deceptive. That's just not him.
Also, I don't think the story is really going to head that way. We're about 4-5eps away from the mid-season point. And we kind of already know what will be happening in half of them. I have the idea that the Rustal/Vidar world and the Teiwaz/Tekkadan world are going to collide. Vidar is finally testing his new mech next episode, which leads me to think he's going to begin hunting soon. And I think he would save McGillis for last and go after Tekkadan first. And whatever he plans to do will be what ends this half of the show and sets up the other half of the season. I don't think their will be room in there for any sort of long con/deception games. Whatever will go on with Teiwaz will probably be intertwined throughout it but not pull main focus.

As for McMurdo and Nobliss, I have been thinking about what Makanai said about old age, regression, and passing things off to a new generation. Could they be thinking to get rid of the old guard entirely in this series. That assassination attempt could have easily taken out McMurdo or Nobliss if Rustal had turned his sights toward them. I'm just thinking that just because you're old and wily, doesn't make you safe. In fact you may be in even more danger, because you're part of the old guard that is usually sacrifice for the new in these kind of stories. So, I'm not sure if those two are as safe as you may think them to be.

[tdx]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I don't know, if Teiwaz has mechanics that can handle Gundams, I'm pretty sure there are others in the solar system that could as well. And if all else fails, they can always ask McGillis if he has any that he can spare. I mean, someone has got to be maintaining the Seven Stars Gundam units.

Teiwaz has a knowledgeable MS nut serving as their chief mechanic and, being a corporate conglomerate, they can provide everything on their own and perform all the stages of the cycle just within their organization: from qualified MS engineers custom-designing the unique parts Gundams require to the heavy industry affiliates manufacturing those parts on order, to specialists adjusting and personifying even something as covered in mysteries as the AV system to suit a particular pilot (like it was done for Mika and Barbatos). I believe I've mentioned all of this previously. If nothing, that's a huge advantage over nearly any other company, because the only other known organization that can do all of that is, indeed, Gjallarhorn.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

But anyway, I don't think Orga could really do long-con games very well. I don't think he has the kind of nature required to do that. It's the same reason he can't do politics well. He can't hid his true feeling behind a mask and get all deceptive. That's just not him.

This I'm inclined to agree with: Orga's problem seems to be the fact he doesn't like and can't really lie. He can keep up a pokerface and not tell everything (like with Todo) but can't really deceive in the true sense of the word. Then again, Kudelia who, as a Gundam princess, is supposed to be a talented politician and a diplomat, didn't exactly show off her lying ability either, though admittedly, she's more level-headed, educated, sophisticated and grounded, so it helps.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

Teiwaz will go to him.

I can't help doubting this statement. With a corporation that big, Donomikols can't be the only one power-hungry for control over it. It's more likely that if Barriston is out of the game prematurely without naming a successor and making sure said successor is strong enough to protect his seat, every local boss with some measure of clout will be jockeying for the position. Only, like you said, the show doesn't exactly have time for going into this, that's why I think, one, Barriston, as an already somewhat developed character, isn't going down so easily, and two, even if he's ousted, we'll probably only get the power struggle between Donomikols and Naze+Tekkadan.

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

As for McMurdo and Nobliss, I have been thinking about what Makanai said about old age, regression, and passing things off to a new generation. Could they be thinking to get rid of the old guard entirely in this series. That assassination attempt could have easily taken out McMurdo or Nobliss if Rustal had turned his sights toward them. I'm just thinking that just because you're old and wily, doesn't make you safe. In fact you may be in even more danger, because you're part of the old guard that is usually sacrifice for the new in these kind of stories. So, I'm not sure if those two are as safe as you may think them to be.

But Makanai survived, contrary to your prediction, and will apparently remain in control of Arbrau for some time to come, while Kudelia, the new generation in question in this case, declined his offer. A lot will depend on the length of the time period that season 2 is going to encompass (relatively short but frequent timeskips ensure the sped up passage of time...), but Barriston is clearly younger than Makanai, for one. If anyone croaks, it'll be Gordon first, I think, because he's the current "King of Mars", so to speak, one who already has a history of betraying Kudelia and Tekkadan, at that.

If Barriston is in danger, it's not because he's old, but because ultimately, for Tekkadan to go legit, let alone govern Mars with the goal of improving the situation on it for the people (as opposed to exploitation and wealth accumulation that Earth and, likely, Teiwaz do), as per Kudelia's ideals (because, being a group with no foundations or higher ideals themselves, as per Orga's admission, Tekkadan will evidently be riding her ship on this), they will need to stop being part of mafia first.

[darkone45]

This might sound strange but, I think so far this season has given us some solid character development for Akihiro with how he reacted to Aston's death and him taking more of a "big brother" type role to some of the younger kids. His relationship with Lafter has huge potential to grow his character since a romantic relationship isn't anything he could of dreamed of having before, and people are almost always changed in some way by their first real relationship. Similarly with Shino, last season after the assault on the Brewer's ship and his subsequent survivor's guilt made him a far more interesting character, especially since it forced him to take a more active role in protecting his fellow Tekkadan members. I personally have been intrigued by Hush's potential as a character. His relationship with Mika offers a huge opportunity for both of them to grow. Up until this point, Mika has always kind of been a lone wolf. He obviously cares about his comrades, given how he reacted when Carta killed Biscuit/nearly killed Orga, but he's never had a direct subordinate under him. Until this point, even though he's obviously a more talented pilot, Akihiro and Shino have technically been on equal footing as him as far as status within Tekkadan. Now that he has someone to actually watch out for, we can see how he'll deal with it. Perhaps Hush will give him an opportunity to explore a relationship unlike anything he's had before. And for Hush, this so far has been great for him. When we first meet him, he's petulant and jealous of Mika. Then he shows some guts by directly saying he wants to be better than Mika. He starts training and eventually thinks he's ready for combat. He has his first sortie with Mika and realizes he's woefully underprepared. Instead of moping around or blaming others for his failures, he realizes that there are differences between him and Mika besides the Alaya-Vinja that separate the two of them. But instead of getting discouraged, he keeps grinding and begins to change his demeanor a bit. My boy Zack even mentions that it's nice to see him respect authority for a change, and Dane tells him that knowing your limits and weaknesses must be a trait common in all good pilots. All this really makes me excited to see where all four of the pilots I mentioned end up characterization wise, as the groundwork has been laid for some really good stuff to happen in future episodes. I honestly don't remember the last time I've been so pumped to see where some characters go in a Gundam series.

[asaqe]

True. And as Barriston predicts it will be a bloody affair. He already saw how just by coming to Dort Kudelia allowed Rustal and Nobliss to profit from the lives of the union workers and Fumitan. He wants prosperity for the people he trusts but he is no idealist and knows when great change happens there will be a lot of a blood on everyone's hands.

Orga going legit is no different. He is going have to war with the strongest faction in Teiwaz and no doubt the bloodshed will happen between the twp parties.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by darkone45

This might sound strange but, I think so far this season has given us some solid character development for Akihiro with how he reacted to Aston's death and him taking more of a "big brother" type role to some of the younger kids. His relationship with Lafter has huge potential to grow his character since a romantic relationship isn't anything he could of dreamed of having before, and people are almost always changed in some way by their first real relationship. Similarly with Shino, last season after the assault on the Brewer's ship and his subsequent survivor's guilt made him a far more interesting character, especially since it forced him to take a more active role in protecting his fellow Tekkadan members. I personally have been intrigued by Hush's potential as a character. His relationship with Mika offers a huge opportunity for both of them to grow. Up until this point, Mika has always kind of been a lone wolf. He obviously cares about his comrades, given how he reacted when Carta killed Biscuit/nearly killed Orga, but he's never had a direct subordinate under him. Until this point, even though he's obviously a more talented pilot, Akihiro and Shino have technically been on equal footing as him as far as status within Tekkadan. Now that he has someone to actually watch out for, we can see how he'll deal with it. Perhaps Hush will give him an opportunity to explore a relationship unlike anything he's had before. And for Hush, this so far has been great for him. When we first meet him, he's petulant and jealous of Mika. Then he shows some guts by directly saying he wants to be better than Mika. He starts training and eventually thinks he's ready for combat. He has his first sortie with Mika and realizes he's woefully underprepared. Instead of moping around or blaming others for his failures, he realizes that there are differences between him and Mika besides the Alaya-Vinja that separate the two of them. But instead of getting discouraged, he keeps grinding and begins to change his demeanor a bit. My boy Zack even mentions that it's nice to see him respect authority for a change, and Dane tells him that knowing your limits and weaknesses must be a trait common in all good pilots. All this really makes me excited to see where all four of the pilots I mentioned end up characterization wise, as the groundwork has been laid for some really good stuff to happen in future episodes. I honestly don't remember the last time I've been so pumped to see where some characters go in a Gundam series.

Shino being basically third in command at Tekkadan (I checked back last season and remembered that he took over from Orga while Eugene was stuck in space), he has matured a bit since that Brewers arc, not wanting to lead at first, but becoming more capable of it as time went on. It will be interesting to see what goes on with him in later episodes.

I really, really want things to work out with Akihiro and Lafter. The guy has lost so much in his young life and it's been punctuated with tragedy throughout almost all of it. Can we please allow him to have one good thing. one bit of happiness, please?! I doubt he's even considered a relationship with Lafter, as perhaps he's too honorable in terms of considering her relationship with Naze, but also because despite some growth of last season, he probably still has deep-seated self-esteem issues, which is something that all ex-human debris have to deal with.

With Hush, I've really been liking the way his character has been shaping up. Some have been comparing his role to that of Saji rather than Shinn now, so we'll have to see. I've been extra cautious of him because his kind of character can go really wrong if you don't watch it. But I like that he's learned from his mistakes, has matured, and has decided to think of Mika more as a role model rather than a rival. I'm now pretty sure that he will become Mika's support in the future (possibly in an MA?) rather than take any lead fighting roles.
As to what his influence will be on Mika? Well it's really too early to tell. As of right now, Mika hasn't really acted any differently with him than he does any other member of Tekkadan. He haven't seen him really teach so much as tell Hush what to do. And there's really not that much dialogue between them on the battlefield either. The two actually barely interact on screen, so well have to see if Hush really has any sizable impact of Mika the same way Mika (or at least his presence) has on Hush.

[darkone45]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

With Hush, I've really been liking the way his character has been shaping up. Some have been comparing his role to that of Saji rather than Shinn now, so we'll have to see. I've been extra cautious of him because his kind of character can go really wrong if you don't watch it. But I like that he's learned from his mistakes, has matured, and has decided to think of Mika more as a role model rather than a rival. I'm now pretty sure that he will become Mika's support in the future (possibly in an MA?) rather than take any lead fighting roles.
As to what his influence will be on Mika? Well it's really too early to tell. As of right now, Mika hasn't really acted any differently with him than he does any other member of Tekkadan. He haven't seen him really teach so much as tell Hush what to do. And there's really not that much dialogue between them on the battlefield either. The two actually barely interact on screen, so well have to see if Hush really has any sizable impact of Mika the same way Mika (or at least his presence) has on Hush.

Yeah, its just like back in the day when People were calling Biscuit a traitor, when reality he was one of the for front of Tekkadan,even giving his own life for Orga, I feel Hush will be that Biscuit character for Mika, I think that fact their not interacting enough, is the staff holding on to their playing cards if you know what I mean
.

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by asaqe

Orga going legit is no different. He is going have to war with the strongest faction in Teiwaz and no doubt the bloodshed will happen between the twp parties.

Tekkadan can go legit with or without Teiwaz. Sure there might be conflict between boys and Teiwaz but not over being legit, there is no reason for McMurdo particularly care.

[asaqe]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Tekkadan can go legit with or without Teiwaz. Sure there might be conflict between boys and Teiwaz but not over being legit, there is no reason for McMurdo particularly care.

He was well aware that the half metal rights would lead to a bloodbath at some point and Dort was indirectly caused by that because Kudelia's appearance resulted in the armed protest taking place and leading to countless of Union worker deaths as well as Fumitan's sacrifice.

[tdx]

Originally Posted by darkone45

Until this point, even though he's obviously a more talented pilot, Akihiro and Shino have technically been on equal footing as him as far as status within Tekkadan.

Not to nitpick, but pretty sure that's not entirely accurate. Orga said that Mika's position is 遊撃隊長 (read 'yuugekitaichou') 'commando unit leader' (or, another possible translation is 'irregular forces commander'), while Shino and Akihiro are regular forces leaders (this is going to be a nitpick but seriously, I abhor Daisuki's translation of 実働部隊 'jitsudou butai' that Shino and Akihiro command as 'working corps', it should be either 'regular corps', as opposed to Hush belonging to 'reserve corps' at the beginning, or 'active duty/frontline corps'). Anyway, that position already singles Mika out as an elite member. Furthermore, if Derma and Dante's reactions and subsequent compliance to Mika stopping them from pursuing the DH pirates in episode 2 is anything to go by, the position apparently also gives him the right to command Tekkadan's MS unit in battle if he feels like exercising it. Moreover, the implicit clout he weilds is immense. It's not just that Orga always asks his opinion on important matters and always listens to what Mika has to say whenever he feels like talking. As the previous episode testified with Radice's execution, even Eugene, technically second-in-command, feels humbled and unable to oppose when Mika starts talking and making decisions. So no, Mika isn't on the same footing as the other Tekkadan subleaders; he just chooses to be passive about it most of the time, but when he does feel like acting, it shows very clearly.

As for Hush, I'm just glad that his levels of annoying are rapidly decreasing, as well as his chances to go down the Shinn path.

Akihiro x Lafter... well, I like the pairing, not super like, but they sure are a promising and contrasting combination. Lafter's circumstances (being a member of Naze's harem) put an interesting twist on it, too, and an opportunity for some character development and drama, Okada-style. But what I want to know first is Akihiro's side. So far, we got nothing from him, and it's like he didn't even consider romance to begin with (which is kind of in line with him being ex-human debris...). And what I fear is, obviously, a tragedy (this is Gundam, after all) befalling one of the participants before this pairing even has a chance to properly develop.

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Tekkadan can go legit with or without Teiwaz. Sure there might be conflict between boys and Teiwaz but not over being legit, there is no reason for McMurdo particularly care.

Being legit while being part of mafia... moreover in merc business and with the mafioso style of settling things... that sounds a little... I don't know, strange at the very least and bound to lead to something tragic at worst. Like in some gangsta movies, where the mc who's honestly trying to stay a decent person ends up tragically dead more often than not.

Spoiler for for Bungou Stray Dogs spoilers:

(the most recent anime example would be Odasaku in the flashback arc in Bungou Stray Dogs)

But OK, even if we assume that it is possible with the goal of just going legit (Orga's original goal), I think it's definitely out of question now with the updated goal of substituting Gjallarhorn and ruling Mars. Tekkadan will need to get if not completely clean for this, then at least become an equal, or superior, partner of Teiwaz, not subsideary: they will need to be their own persons who don't have to answer to mafia and bend to interests of anyone other than the Martian people, or nothing will change for Mars, just one evil replacing another.

Originally Posted by asaqe

He was well aware that the half metal rights would lead to a bloodbath at some point and Dort was indirectly caused by that because Kudelia's appearance resulted in the armed protest taking place and leading to countless of Union worker deaths as well as Fumitan's sacrifice.

Moreover, Barriston outwitted even Nobliss there, using both Nobliss and Kudelia+Tekkadan for profit. Really, he would be such a great helper if he was on Tekkadan's side, or at least the people's side, but alas, he's a gambler who's on the side of his own.

[Irenesharda]

Originally Posted by tdx

Not to nitpick, but pretty sure that's not entirely accurate. Orga said that Mika's position is 遊撃隊長 (read 'yuugekitaichou') 'commando unit leader' (or, another possible translation is 'irregular forces commander'), while Shino and Akihiro are regular forces leaders (this is going to be a nitpick but seriously, I abhor Daisuki's translation of 実働部隊 'jitsudou butai' that Shino and Akihiro command as 'working corps', it should be either 'regular corps', as opposed to Hush belonging to 'reserve corps' at the beginning, or 'active duty/frontline corps'). Anyway, that position already singles Mika out as an elite member. Furthermore, if Derma and Dante's reactions and subsequent compliance to Mika stopping them from pursuing the DH pirates in episode 2 is anything to go by, the position apparently also gives him the right to command Tekkadan's MS unit in battle if he feels like exercising it. Moreover, the implicit clout he weilds is immense. It's not just that Orga always asks his opinion on important matters and always listens to what Mika has to say whenever he feels like talking. As the previous episode testified with Radice's execution, even Eugene, technically second-in-command, feels humbled and unable to oppose when Mika starts talking and making decisions. So no, Mika isn't on the same footing as the other Tekkadan subleaders; he just chooses to be passive about it most of the time, but when he does feel like acting, it shows very clearly.

If I had to list the order of succession for Tekkadan (now that it's one group again with no Earth Branch to worry about, it's a bit easier), it would be something like:

1. Orga
2. Eugene
3. Shino
4. Akihiro
5. Chad
6. Mika
7. Dante
8. And somehow if we've fallen apart this much...Ride

However, if you were to go by authority instead then it would be:

1. Orga
2. Mika
3. Eugene
4. Akihiro
5. Shino
6. Chad
7. Ride
8. Dante

Mika is this weird placement in that he's practically 2nd in command but because he's a man of few words and doesn't really maintain a cohesive unit, more or less doing thing on his own while in a group, yet, whatever he decides pretty much is what is going to get done. If he actually gives the others an order while they are in combat then that's what get's done.
Yet, despite this authority, he's not someone that really has talent in leading, and he's just not the one you'd hand the reigns of leadership, which would be why he's so low in succession.
However, the others still look up to him as a senior member, so if somehow everything went to crap, I think Mika would lead out of necessity. (if he happened to be in his right mind, mind you. Losing Orga might put him too far off the edge)

[Key Board]

Kinda reminds me of this

Spoiler:

[darkone45]

Hey guys good news https://twitter.com/g_tekketsu 99.4k followers almost 100k companies tend to celebrate when they hit a new corner stone how will Sunrise celebrate IBO's 100k following ?

[Tenzen12]

Originally Posted by tdx

Being legit while being part of mafia... moreover in merc business and with the mafioso style of settling things... that sounds a little... I don't know, strange at the very least and bound to lead to something tragic at worst. Like in some gangsta movies, where the mc who's honestly trying to stay a decent person ends up tragically dead more often than not.

Spoiler for for Bungou Stray Dogs spoilers:

(the most recent anime example would be Odasaku in the flashback arc in Bungou Stray Dogs)

But OK, even if we assume that it is possible with the goal of just going legit (Orga's original goal), I think it's definitely out of question now with the updated goal of substituting Gjallarhorn and ruling Mars. Tekkadan will need to get if not completely clean for this, then at least become an equal, or superior, partner of Teiwaz, not subsideary: they will need to be their own persons who don't have to answer to mafia and bend to interests of anyone other than the Martian people, or nothing will change for Mars, just one evil replacing another.
Moreover, Barriston outwitted even Nobliss there, using both Nobliss and Kudelia+Tekkadan for profit. Really, he would be such a great helper if he was on Tekkadan's side, or at least the people's side, but alas, he's a gambler who's on the side of his own.

McMurdo want results and profit and don't really care whether it's legal or not. And let's be honest only time Tekkies committed crime was personal vendetta without Teiwaz involment.

But yeah I can see conflict rising of Tekkadan getting too much power, especially if their interest might happen collide.

[~BC~]

Originally Posted by Irenesharda

I think then that depends on if that was his intent. He can only make the offer, it is up to Orga as to whether he accepts it, and that would include weighing what's going on with Teiwaz. Does he want to spread his wings past the confines of Teiwaz or is he fine where he is? The decision is ultimately Orga's.

But why make that offer now? He knows Orga doesn't trust him so why not let actions speak for themselves. He knows Orga is trying to reach his goals the fastest way possible and is willing to use that recklessness to his advantage. So he's putting a little bug in his ear. The decision is ultimately Orga's but let's not pretend it won't have consequences on McGillis' plans.

As for Macky, why would he want to weaken Tekkadan. He has absolutely no reason to. He needs them, to weaken them would weaken himself. Also, considering how much he genuinely admires Mika (and I can assure you that wasn't an act last week) would he really want to get on that guy's bad side? He knows for a fact what Tekkadan does to people that betray them. Why would he take that chance?

Because when everything is said and done they're probably going to be the biggest threat to him? You can't possibly think he hasn't realized this. Of course he could just be setting things up to keep them in his pocket indefinitely. Tekkadan gaining too much power before his goals are realized would mean they wouldn't need this alliance anymore.

Actually, no he didn't. Again, he has no reason to manipulate Orga.

Saying he has no reason to manipulate Orga is a bit disingenuous. That's pretty much what happened with the pirates when they didn't just come out and say the real reason they were in such a hurry to capture Sandoval. Yes, they have a deal to work together but that doesn't mean Orga is just going to roll over and just do whatever McGillis asks. It doesn't matter the monetary benefits. Saying 'we need you to help us take down these guys who've been evading us' sounds less suspicious than 'we need you to capture this criminal before this other branch does and takes all the credit'. Remember, Tekkadan hates being looked down upon. It's better to make it sound like they're doing earth Gjallarhorn a favor than doing their jobs for them.

Orga is already doing what he needs him to do. Realize that McGillis never asked for anything more than he has already asked for and that Orga has already agreed to give. To promise them something so extravagant simply as a form of manipulation would be ridiculously redundant.
Orga prizes money just as much. If that guy simply offered to quadruple or even give them 10x whatever he's paying them now, that would have been enough of a temptation. To offer control of Mars is way over anything needed for simple manipulation if that is indeed his plan.

Just because he didn't say he wanted something more doesn't mean that he doesn't intend to gain something more. If we're taking everything in that scene at face value, as you seem to insist, then it's just a repetitive conversation that maybe told us a little bit more about Agnika and gave Orga a new idea to get his people killed faster. Also, saying 'I'll bestow this thing on you in the future' is not extravagant in the least; it costs no money and he's not expected to come through on it anytime soon. Lucky for him, Orga is still young and not particularly saavy when it comes to politics.

Also realize how long this alliance is going to be. He and Tekkadan not only have the same enemy in Rustal, but also soon in Vidar. They are going to need each other for the majority, in not the rest of this series. So, again, it would be incredibly foolish to try to manipulate Orga that early if that was he goal as he wouldn't be able to keep it up for long. And McGillis is anything but foolish.

I don't think any of us can say how long this alliance will last, tbqh (beyond ep. spoilers at least). Or whether Tekkadan will find it necessary or wise to continue allying itself with McGillis seeing as he's technically the reason they're even getting targeted by Rustal in the first place. And Vidar...I need to see in action beyond the hangar to really speculate how he'll figure into things (beyond wanting to kick someone's ass).

But Jasley is 2nd in command of Teiwaz, if say he gets too big for his britches and decides to take out McMurdo as he's beginning to think he's getting too soft in his old age. Teiwaz will go to him. And THEN where will that leave Tekkadan?

I would at least think Naze wouldn't just suddenly lose all his connections and still allow Tekkadan some form of productivity even if others in Teiwaz wanted to give them the finger.

[Skaddix]

Not sure why McGillis would be worried. Tekkadan has shown no real interest in controlling Earth. Or Mars before McGillis suggested. Nor do they have the means or powerbase to do so. Especially since they closed up their base on Earth. They are the heroes of Mars. Biscuit has been lionized as a Martyr for Martian Independence.

Its not about taking everything at face value its just this time we haven't seen McGillis screwing Tekkadan. Last season it was obvious he was playing Gali and Carta because we saw it.