AnimeSuki Forums

smoke123 · 2010-05-07, 05:39

making kakashi stronger ...wouldve made jiraiya look weaker...there has to be a scale to compare the fighting levels of the characters...
...i guess the limit itachi told kakashi about way back..that even though kakashi had sharingan it did not make him a part of the uchiha clan...means kakashi could not do any hypnotic doujutsu?
on another note

itachi let sasuke kill him , correct? i mean if itachi had wanted to..he cudve pawned sasuke easily?

points im remembering

the need to get sasuke to get mangekyo(with his death being req)
the fact ...the halfblack white guy said itachis movements were slow he cudve been ill(as in itachi knew he was dying in the long run anyway)
he cudve killed sasuke at the very end of the fight but did not...gave him the Frikkin epic head tap...

what im trying to figure out is...could Itachi have pawned pein? as far as the fighting levels go

Captain_Monotanous · 2010-05-07, 06:14

Something just seemed off this episode...like it wasent planned out properly in advance...
As has been said, the pacing was thrown off a bit because of how it was restructured during the transition into anime, but sadly, the anime crew didnt adjust the fight at all, they copied it panel for panel.

The fight was meant to be a lighting quick battle of wits, but because there was (almost) no cut aways, it just felt awkward. I thick padding the fight out with taijutsu, or even just extra jutsu (poor Kakashi did come across as having the stamina of 10 year professional coach potato) would have given the fight the frantic feeling it needed.
Oh, and the music. Dear Gods the music. It was the middle of a fight and they played the same ominous tension building track through the WHOLE thing. There was never a big swell of music to go with the badassery!

Though I suppose that wouldnt have gone with the editing.....GAHH they messed this one up, even with some nice art and animation.
Still, only a side show. The main event looks to be coming up in 2 weeks or so

Dont ruin that Anime crew. Please dont. Succeed in making it awesome and I will send you my first born child!

yakumo-chan · 2010-05-07, 06:14

Obito theory being alive ends here.... since we clearly see that obito is in heaven now together with Minato and Rin!

and yeah!! I agree with the people here!!

we need more awesome animation and Epic Battle Music!!!

and its still great to see obito again!!

they should make the naruto shippuden a 2 weekly episode instead of a crappy animation of 1weekly episode!!

ttdestroy · 2010-05-07, 08:48

I didn't think the animation was crap but it did feel a little underwhelming for a fight this significant. If I remember correctly they usually crank up the quality a bit when we get to the "big" fights right?

Ero-Senn1n · 2010-05-07, 08:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttdestroy

I didn't think the animation was crap but it did feel a little underwhelming for a fight this significant. If I remember correctly they usually crank up the quality a bit when we get to the "big" fights right?

But this was not the "big fight", it's just warming up.

BTW here we see Konoha vs Pain, just to understand the level of Pain, so Kakashi is just one ninja among hundreds or even thousands that are trying to stop Pain and failing. So Kakashi lasting so long in this battle, and even taking out one body of Pain is a quite good performance. Also Kakashi's death is nice too, because this way he is not simply killed by Pain but he sacrificed his life for the next generation.

I'm surprised that there's no big debate about Kakashi being dead. When this happened in the manga there was a debate if Kakashi will return or will be dead forever. Being returned to life is not unprecedented, since we have Gaara already. Also Kakashi has plot armor and his body was not destroyed or lethally wounded.

neshru · 2010-05-07, 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttdestroy

If I remember correctly they usually crank up the quality a bit when we get to the "big" fights right?

They usually do, but they seem to be having an hard time keeping up the quality of their episodes right now, probably because their best animators went to work on the new Naruto movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

But this was not the "big fight", it's just warming up.

Unfortunately the animation directors list for the next few episodes seems to indicate that the big fight of this arc will get standard or even subpar animation

HayashiTakara · 2010-05-07, 09:10

Great episode, it wasn't rushed at all. Everything happened as it should with nothing dragging it out longer than it was. Actually I'll take it back there's actually more scenes in this episode than there was panels in the manga.

I'm getting twitchy just thinking about Naruto's return XD

Shiryuu · 2010-05-07, 09:14

The Kakashi fight seemed shorter than the manga for some reason. Did they cut stuff out?

neshru · 2010-05-07, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiryuu

The Kakashi fight seemed shorter than the manga for some reason. Did they cut stuff out?

They didn't cut anything out.

As for why the fight felt shorter:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

The reason why some manga-readers feel that way is because in the manga the dynamic of Pain's invasion was more fractured, chaotic even. Many things happening at the same time, tiny bit of fights over Konoha displayed on the same pages along with showing the people trying to find out about Pain's secret, Tsunade trying to heal the entire village, Danzou's betrayal, Naruto's training, etc.
As a result even if it was the same content, the fight Kakashi Vs. Deva Pain lasted 5 weeks in the manga.
The anime didn't show the invasion exactly the same way, a different media requiers a different way of showing thing and interrupting events over and over doesn't work so well in weekly animation so the anime team chose to "steady" the various events happening at the same time by giving them one episode each instead of mixing the whole thing and spread the goods over several weeks.

Ero-Senn1n · 2010-05-07, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by neshru

Unfortunately the animation directors list for the next few episodes seems to indicate that the big fight of this arc will get standard or even subpar animation

The episode titles say that the next two episodes will be about other villagers fighting Pain, i guess the 3rd episode will be the beginning of epicness, probably at the end of the 3rd episode. So we must have good animation in the 4th and so on.

Bombo · 2010-05-07, 11:28

After rewatching the episode many times...I change my opinion about rushed this Fight..They want to let us know how strong pain and finish his battel quick,

neshru · 2010-05-07, 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

The episode titles say that the next two episodes will be about other villagers fighting Pain, i guess the 3rd episode will be the beginning of epicness, probably at the end of the 3rd episode. So we must have good animation in the 4th and so on.

This is how things look:
episode 160 will have poor to average animation quality (same AD that did 152);
episode 161 will have poor to average animation quality (same AD that did 154);
episode 162 will have great animation quality (same AD that did 153);
episode 163 will have poor to good animation quality (same AD that did 156. He has worked on a lot of Shippuuden episodes, mostly subpar looking episodes, but he has had skilled animators on his episodes before);
episode 164 will have poor animation quality (same AD that did 157);

Go check the episodes titles in the Upcoming Episodes Titles thread to have an idea of which chapters will every episode cover.

FlareKnight · 2010-05-07, 14:31

I don't really have much of an issue with the pace. I'm more just shaking my head at the pattern of pretty much anyone over 20 having a death flag over head. If you are not a young character there isn't anything on Earth that can save you. Get the rare exception like Choji's father, but really everyone who was in that group died except for the young Choji. Starting to run out of characters that I give a damn about

.

Kakashi's death did just feel underwhelming. When they were meeting Obito and Rin at the end I just ended up thinking "that's it!?" Just didn't feel like a great ending that would make you think its the end as with Jiraiya.

But yeah there really isn't a death good enough for Pain now. We've already lost Jiraiya and Kakashi to him.

SuigetsuKun · 2010-05-07, 14:53

Kakashi just died there and I think he met his father. Isn't that.... wow that really brushed past.
It was kind of stupid that Kakashi could make the rocket in his blind spot disappear that was a hundred meters away from him. Sharingan is no Byakugan, is it?
He never had much chakra stamina to begin with. No wonder he died because he used up all his chakra. It's exactly what he told Sasuke not to do, but back then he said that the technique would not be completed. Maybe that was just to make Sasuke not try it as a last resort.

Ak3mi · 2010-05-07, 15:32

Was a good episode, quiet thrilling to be honest, I don't think the fight was good enough to justify Kakashi's death though. I loved the bit with his father though, really nice touch

.

Kafriel · 2010-05-07, 16:00

Quote:

I'm surprised that there's no big debate about Kakashi being dead. When this happened in the manga there was a debate if Kakashi will return or will be dead forever. Being returned to life is not unprecedented, since we have Gaara already. Also Kakashi has plot armor and his body was not destroyed or lethally wounded.

He saw his dead comrades and started narrating the story of his life to his dead father...and Tsunade's behaviour suggests that he's dead dead, not just out of chakra.

Quote:

I don't think the fight was good enough to justify Kakashi's death though.

He tried his best and used the skills that no other ninja uses: actual ninja skills of traps, stealth and teamwork. I think this fight shows Kakashi's true level, despite his loss.

Zu Ra · 2010-05-07, 17:15

To last weeks queries am a manga reader =/

Coming to this episode Pain was Godly Divine . I will run out of words more so adjectives to describe the pure awesomeness that Pain, brought to the episode . I was satisfied by the pace of the episode, Kakashi did put a good show . But at the end he was up against the joygasm that goes by the name of Pain . But I still think the entry into Konoha wasn't as spectacular as the 5 Path introduction Vs Jiraiya . Maybe it was the BGM I don't know ...

saravis · 2010-05-07, 18:01

I too felt that Kakashi's final moments were rushed. It just felt like the anime team just wanted to get it done and get it out of the way. Azuma's final moments felt more impactful and he's nowhere near as prominent of a character as Kakashi is. To think of how much time we spent with Kakashi, starting back when he was first introduced in the early episodes of Naruto all the way up until now and all we get is a two minute farewell.

HayashiTakara · 2010-05-07, 18:36

Kakashi's death scene was fine. You should see it in the manga, it's like a serious W.T.F. anticlimatic 1 page wonder.

Seraphis · 2010-05-07, 19:16

In my opinion they should have left Chouji (and the viewers) finding out Choza was alive for the next episode.

View Poll Results: Critique of Episode 159
091 - 100: Amazing...	34	44.74%
081 - 090: Great...	18	23.68%
071 - 080: Very Good...	10	13.16%
061 - 070: Good...	5	6.58%
051 - 060: Average...	3	3.95%
041 - 050: Below Average...	1	1.32%
031 - 040: Bad...	0	0%
021 - 030: Very Bad...	0	0%
011 - 020: Awful...	0	0%
000 - 010: You'd rather be watching Pokemon...	5	6.58%
Voters: 76. You may not vote on this poll

2010-05-07, 05:39	Link #61
smoke123 Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009	making kakashi stronger ...wouldve made jiraiya look weaker...there has to be a scale to compare the fighting levels of the characters... ...i guess the limit itachi told kakashi about way back..that even though kakashi had sharingan it did not make him a part of the uchiha clan...means kakashi could not do any hypnotic doujutsu? on another note itachi let sasuke kill him , correct? i mean if itachi had wanted to..he cudve pawned sasuke easily? points im remembering the need to get sasuke to get mangekyo(with his death being req) the fact ...the halfblack white guy said itachis movements were slow he cudve been ill(as in itachi knew he was dying in the long run anyway) he cudve killed sasuke at the very end of the fight but did not...gave him the Frikkin epic head tap... what im trying to figure out is...could Itachi have pawned pein? as far as the fighting levels go

2010-05-07, 06:14	Link #63
yakumo-chan Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Behind You! Age: 33	Obito theory being alive ends here.... since we clearly see that obito is in heaven now together with Minato and Rin! and yeah!! I agree with the people here!! we need more awesome animation and Epic Battle Music!!! and its still great to see obito again!! they should make the naruto shippuden a 2 weekly episode instead of a crappy animation of 1weekly episode!! __________________

2010-05-07, 08:48	Link #64
ttdestroy Hardcore meets Casual Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma Age: 35	I didn't think the animation was crap but it did feel a little underwhelming for a fight this significant. If I remember correctly they usually crank up the quality a bit when we get to the "big" fights right? __________________ They say you don't grow up You just grow old, It's safe to say I haven't done both.

2010-05-07, 09:10	Link #67
HayashiTakara Chicken or Beef? Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle Age: 41	Great episode, it wasn't rushed at all. Everything happened as it should with nothing dragging it out longer than it was. Actually I'll take it back there's actually more scenes in this episode than there was panels in the manga. I'm getting twitchy just thinking about Naruto's return XD __________________ http://htakara82.deviantart.com/

2010-05-07, 06:14	Link #62
Captain_Monotanous Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Britania Age: 33	Something just seemed off this episode...like it wasent planned out properly in advance... As has been said, the pacing was thrown off a bit because of how it was restructured during the transition into anime, but sadly, the anime crew didnt adjust the fight at all, they copied it panel for panel. The fight was meant to be a lighting quick battle of wits, but because there was (almost) no cut aways, it just felt awkward. I thick padding the fight out with taijutsu, or even just extra jutsu (poor Kakashi did come across as having the stamina of 10 year professional coach potato) would have given the fight the frantic feeling it needed. Oh, and the music. Dear Gods the music. It was the middle of a fight and they played the same ominous tension building track through the WHOLE thing. There was never a big swell of music to go with the badassery! Though I suppose that wouldnt have gone with the editing.....GAHH they messed this one up, even with some nice art and animation. Still, only a side show. The main event looks to be coming up in 2 weeks or so Dont ruin that Anime crew. Please dont. Succeed in making it awesome and I will send you my first born child!

2010-05-07, 09:14	Link #68
Shiryuu Magical Boy Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Hiding... don't try to find me. Age: 20	The Kakashi fight seemed shorter than the manga for some reason. Did they cut stuff out?

2010-05-07, 11:28	Link #71
Bombo TSF Fans Join Date: Sep 2008	After rewatching the episode many times...I change my opinion about rushed this Fight..They want to let us know how strong pain and finish his battel quick,

2010-05-07, 14:31	Link #73
FlareKnight User of the "Fast Draw" Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada	I don't really have much of an issue with the pace. I'm more just shaking my head at the pattern of pretty much anyone over 20 having a death flag over head. If you are not a young character there isn't anything on Earth that can save you. Get the rare exception like Choji's father, but really everyone who was in that group died except for the young Choji. Starting to run out of characters that I give a damn about . Kakashi's death did just feel underwhelming. When they were meeting Obito and Rin at the end I just ended up thinking "that's it!?" Just didn't feel like a great ending that would make you think its the end as with Jiraiya. But yeah there really isn't a death good enough for Pain now. We've already lost Jiraiya and Kakashi to him. __________________ Anime-Evo

2010-05-07, 14:53	Link #74
SuigetsuKun Circus Clown Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: on the streets	Kakashi just died there and I think he met his father. Isn't that.... wow that really brushed past. It was kind of stupid that Kakashi could make the rocket in his blind spot disappear that was a hundred meters away from him. Sharingan is no Byakugan, is it? He never had much chakra stamina to begin with. No wonder he died because he used up all his chakra. It's exactly what he told Sasuke not to do, but back then he said that the technique would not be completed. Maybe that was just to make Sasuke not try it as a last resort. __________________ And instead of trying to impose on your mind, you adjust yourself to your opponent like water pressing on an earthen wall. It flows through the slightest crack. Running water never grows stale. So you just have to 'keep on flowing'. Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. Now you put water in a cup, it becomes the cup; You put water into a bottle it becomes the bottle; You put it in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.

2010-05-07, 15:32	Link #75
Ak3mi Tumble Rumble Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Imagination Land Age: 39	Was a good episode, quiet thrilling to be honest, I don't think the fight was good enough to justify Kakashi's death though. I loved the bit with his father though, really nice touch . __________________

2010-05-07, 17:15	Link #77
Zu Ra ✖ ǝʇ ɯıqnɾl ☆ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mortuary : D	To last weeks queries am a manga reader =/ Coming to this episode Pain was Godly Divine . I will run out of words more so adjectives to describe the pure awesomeness that Pain, brought to the episode . I was satisfied by the pace of the episode, Kakashi did put a good show . But at the end he was up against the joygasm that goes by the name of Pain . But I still think the entry into Konoha wasn't as spectacular as the 5 Path introduction Vs Jiraiya . Maybe it was the BGM I don't know ... __________________

2010-05-07, 18:01	Link #78
saravis Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	I too felt that Kakashi's final moments were rushed. It just felt like the anime team just wanted to get it done and get it out of the way. Azuma's final moments felt more impactful and he's nowhere near as prominent of a character as Kakashi is. To think of how much time we spent with Kakashi, starting back when he was first introduced in the early episodes of Naruto all the way up until now and all we get is a two minute farewell. __________________ So people understand that I do not take these discussions seriously, its all good fun.

2010-05-07, 18:36	Link #79
HayashiTakara Chicken or Beef? Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Seattle Age: 41	Kakashi's death scene was fine. You should see it in the manga, it's like a serious W.T.F. anticlimatic 1 page wonder. __________________ http://htakara82.deviantart.com/

2010-05-07, 19:16	Link #80
Seraphis Seldom Everything Join Date: Jul 2007	In my opinion they should have left Chouji (and the viewers) finding out Choza was alive for the next episode.