2009-12-10, 00:18 | Link #4021 |
Just... disturbed.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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Maybe George is more like Kinzo than people think... XD
Regarding the Shannon cutting herself out part, I think it'll be pretty suspicious when people see the shutter to the rose garden storehouse with a huge hole in it. But Shannon sure is suspicious in EP1... Her corpse is the last to be noticed and pulled most of the reader's attention to it, yet it was a corpse that most people didn't see properly. |
2009-12-10, 02:16 | Link #4023 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Whatever.... but I keep getting the feeling that when Ryukishi had the idea of the red text he put himself inside a mined field.
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2009-12-10, 03:30 | Link #4024 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Russia, Moscow
Age: 35
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I guess the largest hint to this Shannon-Kanon situation is Ep2 'fake Kanon' scene. Shannon suddenly ran away exactly after the moment Kanon said something about Rosa (I'm not sure and can't check it now, but the moment was quite suspicious). Even assuming the whole scene was a fake one, Ryukishi still gave a lot of details about it.
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2009-12-10, 04:12 | Link #4025 |
Just... disturbed.
Join Date: Dec 2009
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That's right. Nobody will mistake another human for Kanon, but it might not be a human. It could very well be an illusion Shannon is puppeting from the background. And... er, speaking of how Shannon could possibly get something so real to create an illusion of Kanon, it's a Devil's Proof! I refuse to explain!
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2009-12-10, 05:00 | Link #4027 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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I don't think she'd use a dirty trick. When she says "only Kanon can use that name," she means only the person we know of as Kanon can use the name Kanon in the context of the story. I take this to mean that Kanon cannot be impersonated. However, it is clear that "Kanon" is nothing more than a title, just a title that happens to belong to only one person (the person whose name we don't know but call Kanon). Whether that's a hint that "Kanon" can die and Kanon-the-person can go on living, or merely a trick Beatrice used to shoot down Battler's theory and close a loophole, I don't know. Obviously Kanon's real name is going to be important, as it's a Chekhov's Gun (especially after he almost says it in ep2). There's a reason we don't know it, and it's going to be some reason I suspect people have already guessed (he's the other Battler, he's an Ushiromiya, he's the boy from 19 years ago, he's Amakusa, he's Rosa's baby daddy, etc., something that would be obvious if he said it). |
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2009-12-10, 05:32 | Link #4029 | ||
Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Pettan, Pettan, Tsurupettan...
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Regarding the Episode 2 scene where Shannon runs away to grab a spiderweb, I'm curious: "Why a spiderweb"? Diehard anti-fantasists of course can completely ignore it, but the question is interesting for the other positions - for the pro-fantasy camp, maybe it represents a counter to Beatrice's magic in some way? More importantly, perhaps it's an important hint for those who take the fantasy scenes metaphorically (myself included). The fact that the "fake Kanon" recoils from the spiderweb suggests to me a metaphor for arachnophobia, perhaps? I don't think any of the cast has been revealed to be particularly phobic around bugs and spiders, but it might be a clue to consider. |
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2009-12-10, 08:47 | Link #4030 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Anyway even in the closed circle of Rokkenjima the idea that no one can claim what is in fact a false name seems definitely odd to me. I'd expect something more like "there is only one person that ever claimed the name Kanon in all the games". Yeah I'm a nitpicker but in the context of this game and all that it implies absolutely precise red truths are required to avoid misunderstandings. I think it's the same problem with "this door can only be opened with a master key" which should rather be worded as "no one in this island can open this door without a master key"
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2009-12-10, 11:20 | Link #4031 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: a better place than here
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This only applied to EP5 technically, but after what happened to her then, I highly doubt she's capable of committing any crime. |
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2009-12-10, 11:25 | Link #4032 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston
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While I generally disagree with Work and am a huge proponent of the Shannon theories, I'll agree with Work here. Natsuhi from my perspective is the only person aside from obviously Battler that we can say with pretty much certainty has absolutely nothing to do with the murders.
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2009-12-10, 13:43 | Link #4033 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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2009-12-10, 14:09 | Link #4034 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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The bloodstains all over the servants' room could have been made with the same red substance used to paint the magic circles. Without Nanjo to say otherwise, it might be hard for Rosa's group to tell the difference, especially if they've been primed to think that they're looking at a murder scene. It could even be chicken blood or something. Since Kanon used the same substance to fake his death in the boiler room in EP1, maybe Shannon went down there in EP2 because that's where the substance was being stored? (Assuming she actually went down to the boiler room at all, of course.) |
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2009-12-10, 22:11 | Link #4035 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
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If something is impossible based on the rules of the game, the red text has no problem saying it's impossible. At least that's my theory.
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2009-12-10, 22:27 | Link #4036 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Krauss, on the other hand, is just a complete incompetent boob. Sorry but after EP 5 I think he's the most incompetent human character there. |
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2009-12-10, 22:51 | Link #4037 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston
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Maria I think there is a possibility that she does know the truth as to what is going on, and may even have actually deliberately helped Beatrice in other ways than the letter. While I view this as unlikely, it is a possibility which I haven't ruled out yet. I really don't think any of the adults are involved, but Krauss I actually view as the second-most likely of the adults to be involved with the crime, coming behind Hideyoshi (whom we know nothing about and thus have really nothing to prove or disprove with really). Eva and Rosa are way too obvious, Natsuhi definitely isn't involved, and Rudolf and Kyrie had their entire faces smashed in the First Twilight of Episode 1 so I count them out. The fact that Krauss had half his face smashed means I think it's possible he faked his death (I would say I'm 95% certain he's dead, but that's better than Kyrie and Rudolf whom I'm 99.9% certain are dead) and it's possible he's faking his incompetence. Just saying I don't think that they're culprits, but I wouldn't clear them to the level that I would Natsuhi. |
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2009-12-10, 23:26 | Link #4038 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
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繰り返します。神の名において、そのような薬も機械も存在させません。未来永劫、存在することも許しません。 I repeat. In the name of God, such drugs and machinery are not allowed to exist. For all eternity, he will not allow their existence. (That red text was in response to Beatrice's claim that Kinzo could have invented a teleporter or a drug that can turn you into fog so you can slip through a crack in a door)
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Last edited by luckyssol; 2009-12-10 at 23:37. |
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2009-12-10, 23:56 | Link #4039 | |
The Great Dine
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Counting out Rudolf and Kyrie just because of an early death doesn't sound right to me. It's ignoring a lot of other things that might be there. I doubt myself Rudolf is part of the murders, but I have doubts on Kyrie here and there. And Krauss faking incompetence is impossible. In EP 5 when his "wow you really did that" moment shows up it shows that he's probably as gullible as Maria. Spoiler for EP 5:
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2009-12-11, 00:37 | Link #4040 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston
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