Boku wa Tomodachi ga Sukunai - Light Novel Discussion

[Marcus H.]

Actually, if the story really is about friendship, then it's possible that Kodaka would end up with Sena.
But then again it's hard to judge because we've reached a stage where anything can go, and treating this like a decent light novel series isn't gonna help in building the big picture.

[Somethindarker]

Like I've said before, the story was supposed to be mostly about friendship than romance but somewhere along the lines the author lost sight of it. Whether because of editorial or fan pressure is up for debate but honestly I don't care.

Honestly whoever ends up with Kodaka at this point doesn't matter. High school romance is a fickle thing I'm sure many of us had multiple girlfriends during those 4 years so just because Yukimura might end up with him for the moment doesn't mean anything.

[Chosen_Hero]

But the thing is that if he does end up dating Yukimura it would disrupt everything built up until now, remener that everyone in the club now knows that Sena confessed and that Kodaka confessed back and he himself said that he was going to tell everyone so that there wouldn't be anymore disruption which would mean they all know how he feels for Sena and if you remember correctly one of the things Kodaka told Sena was that "he had no plans to date anyone else in the club" and that "they were going to wait until they graduate" to start dating, what kind of message does it send to the readers if all of that is ignored? In my opinion it's a slap to the face of the fanbase and an insult to their intelligence.

Really out of everyone in the club only Sena had the necesarry development to end up as "the end girl" eveyrone else had enough development to end up as friends (the ultimate goal of the club and series as a whole), what do you think would happen if what I pointed out in the first paragraph were to happen when Kodaka just disregard all he says and does end up with Yukimura on a whim? Do you think they will end up as friends? Do you think no conflict will arise from something like that happening?

That's the basic problem if the spoilers are to be believed than all that would do is cause conflict and destroy the very thing he was trying to protect and if the author makes it end in a happy way with us the fanbase knowing this that it's just an insult to that fanbase intelligence.

It will literally be the same thing that happened with Oreimo, so much built up that amounts to basically nothing.

P.S. I do agree that the author wrote himself into a hole.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

But the thing is that if he does end up dating Yukimura it would disrupt everything built up until now, remener that everyone in the club now knows that Sena confessed and that Kodaka confessed back and he himself said that he was going to tell everyone so that there wouldn't be anymore disruption which would mean they all know how he feels for Sena and if you remember correctly one of the things Kodaka told Sena was that "he had no plans to date anyone else in the club" and that "they were going to wait until they graduate" to start dating, what kind of message does it send to the readers if all of that is ignored? In my opinion it's a slap to the face of the fanbase and an insult to their intelligence.

I don't think the intention of his comment to Sena was "after we graduate, then we'll start dating". It was not a pledge or a promise. But rather that, at that time, he didn't think about dating anyone because the club was foremost on his mind, hence he didn't intend to even consider it until after graduation (since he assumed the present situation would continue, and when they graduate the club would dissolve). But the whole overarching plot of this recent volume is that the club is basically dissolving now because the need for it is over. And the whole situation at the end pushes that suddenly to the fore. He can no longer hide behind the club as a reason to put off the advances of the girls in his life, and Yukimura made the first and boldest move. And it's not like he spent a great deal of deep thought into the choice he made, like he was deciding on the person he was going to marry and live with for the rest of his life. But the tables are turning pretty quickly.

I don't think it's any sort of slap or insult, and it doesn't negate anything that came before. It's just a combination of circumstances that led to the turning point. There's more to what's going on than just that closing cliffhanger taken out of context.

(And well, I totally disagree about Oreimo as well, but I won't get into that in this thread.)

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I don't think the intention of his comment to Sena was "after we graduate, then we'll start dating". It was not a pledge or a promise. But rather that, at that time, he didn't think about dating anyone because the club was foremost on his mind, hence he didn't intend to even consider it until after graduation (since he assumed the present situation would continue, and when they graduate the club would dissolve). But the whole overarching plot of this recent volume is that the club is basically dissolving now because the need for it is over. And the whole situation at the end pushes that suddenly to the fore. He can no longer hide behind the club as a reason to put off the advances of the girls in his life, and Yukimura made the first and boldest move. And it's not like he spent a great deal of deep thought into the choice he made, like he was deciding on the person he was going to marry and live with for the rest of his life. But the tables are turning pretty quickly.

I don't think it's any sort of slap or insult, and it doesn't negate anything that came before. It's just a combination of circumstances that led to the turning point. There's more to what's going on than just that closing cliffhanger taken out of context.

(And well, I totally disagree about Oreimo as well, but I won't get into that in this thread.)

First not so much since Sena made the first move (which is just as bold as kissing him since she did it in front of the whole club) and do you really belive there is no more need for the club? Yozora is still her own stubborn self (at least she is starting to change since Sena and Kodaka confessed to each other) and accepting that she has friends is still difficult for her (and from the spoilers it seems that her problems are just waived off), Yukimura doesn't really think much of anyone else in the club except Kodaka (going as far as not really thinking of them as friends, also all she did was what Kodaka told her to do, yeah you can say she befriended Yusa but still sje had no character development at all seemmingly until the latest volume), Kobato is still too clingy to Kodaka to try and make friends or accept people as friends, if anything the only.ones who have made and progress are Kodaka, Sena, Rika and Maria who since the beginning have been the ones who tried to make friends, while the others just focused on Kodaka and nothing more.

All he does is to try and keep the club togethwr and all of a sudden none of that matters? It just doesn't make sense. I'm not asking for a perfect conclusion to their character arcs all I want is something that makes sense and at least feels complete.

(I would give a more thought out answer but it's late at night where I live and I'm using my smartphone.)

[Johnny]

Have to agree that Sena did make the first and boldest move of the lot. Yukimura is runner-up in that department. Besides like mentioned earlier, if this was going for a "friend's end". Rika would have that won hand's down...

Who knows in the epilogue the author could throw another curveball? Not holding my breath since it seems the author gave up. Shame because there was still a lot of areas he could've covered...

[MK-95-]

Vol 10's out already? I've really been in the dark with this series...What's this I hear about him possibly accepting Yukihira's confession? Come on, that's outta left field tbh.

We've seen that Yozora's been more or less officially friendzoned & Sena got put on standby. The only other girl I saw as having a legit possible romance with him is Rika. Just where the heel did Yukihira sneak up from?

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

...do you really belive there is no more need for the club? [...]

Well, this is clearly what the next volume is going to cover. The way the volume was going was implying that they didn't need the club any more, which led to the end. But there are a whole lot of issues still on the table, as you point out. It's almost guaranteed that the end of this arc is going to be a quasi-return to the status quo and "life goes on" with some issues resolved and some issues not, and Yukimura making this move is going to be the catalyst (indirectly) for the club to continue. If Kodaka realizes that the club is still needed, he may well tell Yukimura to wait also, and then it just means that the race is on in earnest, and the rivalries have stepped up a notch. If the author is going to end the novel in the next volume after all, that'd be a pretty fitting place to end it (even if people hate these sorts of endings).

Basically, the story isn't over yet. Let's wait to see what happens. People are over-emphasizing a cliffhanger that is clearly meant to be shocking, and taking it totally at face value. (And also over-simplifying the story to make it entirely about who Kodaka ends up dating.)

[Marcus H.]

Well, we don't know how the story will go to, no thanks to the author's curveballs.
It's not like in Oreimo where it was possible to go without romance but it did eventually.

[Kadmos1]

Originally Posted by allfictions

Ha.

Hahaha.

Hahahahahahahaha!

Oh you poor, poor summer child, you don't know what has been discussed these last pages, do you?

No, because the large paragraphs might have putting "tl;dr" and because I haven't gotten around to reading the actual light novels since they are long (like many books are) and don't necessarily have the patience to read them.

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by Kadmos1

No, because the large paragraphs might have putting "tl;dr" and because I haven't gotten around to reading the actual light novels since they are long (like many books are) and don't necessarily have the patience to read them.

Just found your question hilarious in regards to what happens, not really criticizing you for not reading. In short,

Spoiler for Answer:

Yukimura kisses and confesses to Kodaka, and he answers yes to her wanting to go out with him.

See why I was laughing?

You should read the LN though, since they are, well, light. At least, most light novels are shorter than western novels. I would lament about people not reading much nowadays, but this is neither the time nor the place.

[JamJackEvo]

It's times like this that I wish that the series hadn't been rushed to end. There're just so many other things that had to be resolved and characters to flesh out (Yomi-sensei broke his promise when he mentioned in an Author's Notes that the Seitokai will be appearing a lot more in later volumes) that it feels like I'm watching Toei's movie-take on Clannad again. Rushed, painful, and an incomplete ending (I COMPLETELY ABHOR THAT MOVIE ENDING!!!).

Well, the fanfiction community has always outdone some weak instances of canon (Rebuild of Sword Art Online, for instance), so there might be someone out there who could rewrite the ending to a better written one if canon jumps the shark once more in the next volume.

Originally Posted by allfictions

I would lament about people not reading much nowadays, but this is neither the time nor the place.

There's always a time to lament about people not reading much these days.

[Lexxus]

Cool. I didn't expected her to win. Totally unexpected.

[Kadmos1]

Reading about recent events sounds like the author pulled a figurative asspull.

[novalysis]

Yukimura came out of nowhere, and Kodaka's answer is completely at odds with his answer to Sena. And again, as many people mentioned, we've seen far more of Sena and Kodaka's relation, than that with Yukimura, and even one volume cannot conceivably change this. So, why would Kodaka do the equivalent of stabbing Sena in the back, by putting Sena on hold, while accepting Yukimura's confession? It doesn't make sense - I would have expected him to also put Yukimura on hold.

And we haven't even found out why Yukimura is suppose to be a trap to begin with!

[Somethindarker]

Wow, have you guys not been reading the posts for the last few weeks? Kodaka was blindsided by her. She pinned him against the wall confessed her love for him while crying then kissed him for 10 seconds. Just before that Kodaka had quit the club to preserve the girls' friendship without him standing in the way. He was already deep in thought contemplating how Rika was the only girl there who saw him for who he was not some prize to one up another girl, or an ideal to strive for.

Then Yuki comes in does her thing and in a daze he responded. No malice, no "back stabbing" just a boy caught off guard. It's not like Yuki didn't have a chance, Kodaka himself was incredibly attracted to her even when he thought she was a boy. Sena does love him but there was always that "I gotta beat Yozora" thing Yozora was in love with the idea of Taka not with Kodaka himself.

Let's face it Maria, Kate, Aoi and Kobato never had a chance. As someone before pointed out Rika is the narrator of the story as she's the only one in the cast who refer's to herself as "Boku" the all the girls use "Atashi" and Kodaka uses "Ore". Rika and Yuki were the only real contenders from the beginning they both wanted to be with him from the start no matter the other girls. Plus there's still 1 year left in high school for the lot of them alot can happen.

edit; Also Kodaka himself said he was in love with Rika right before Yukimura confessed. He was attracted to Sena the most but that's just lust. As soon as he confessed to Sena I knew she was out of the running thinking Yozora was gonna win in like 3-4 more chapters but then the author lost it.

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by Somethindarker

Wow, have you guys not been reading the posts for the last few weeks? Kodaka was blindsided by her. She pinned him against the wall confessed her love for him while crying then kissed him for 10 seconds. Just before that Kodaka had quit the club to preserve the girls' friendship without him standing in the way. He was already deep in thought contemplating how Rika was the only girl there who saw him for who he was not some prize to one up another girl, or an ideal to strive for.

Then Yuki comes in does her thing and in a daze he responded. No malice, no "back stabbing" just a boy caught off guard. It's not like Yuki didn't have a chance, Kodaka himself was incredibly attracted to her even when he thought she was a boy. Sena does love him but there was always that "I gotta beat Yozora" thing Yozora was in love with the idea of Taka not with Kodaka himself.

Let's face it Maria, Kate, Aoi and Kobato never had a chance. As someone before pointed out Rika is the narrator of the story as she's the only one in the cast who refer's to herself as "Boku" the all the girls use "Atashi" and Kodaka uses "Ore". Rika and Yuki were the only real contenders from the beginning they both wanted to be with him from the start no matter the other girls. Plus there's still 1 year left in high school for the lot of them alot can happen.

edit; Also Kodaka himself said he was in love with Rika right before Yukimura confessed. He was attracted to Sena the most but that's just lust. As soon as he confessed to Sena I knew she was out of the running thinking Yozora was gonna win in like 3-4 more chapters but then the author lost it.

1. Kodaka only ever noticed and commented on how cute Yukimura was, he never said he loved her, liked yes but not loved and it was never shown to be love.

2. He said he loved Sena and with the way he said it, it wasn't made to feel like it was only physically (you can love someone for both their true self and physically), when Sena confessed she admitted her true feelings which lead me into my next point...

3. The whole "him being a prize to one up the other girls" thing (if it is in the volume) and then leaving the club sounds like an asspull because Kodaka already knew that they had been "competing" for him, so him acting like this after he was confessed by Sena (who like I said admitted her true feelings for her and at that tine wasn't thinking in any way or form about one upping anyone) and then confessing back to her, which everyone in the club knew was said and done, add ti that that they must have known that he clearly stated he wouldn't date anyone in the club, makes it seems like an asspull if they for some reason started the "competition" once again out of the blue, also why would Kodaka give up so easily on the very thing he is trying to protect? All this does is make Kodaka look like an lying indecisive asshole.

4. What is this whole "Rika is the only one who saw him for who he was" thing? She was part if the so called "competition" the only thing that changed was that she became his friend and after all the times he rejected her, calling her an idiot and only treating her like a friend he suddenly loves Rika? If this is mentioned in the volume sounds like another asspull and anofher reason Kodaka seemed to have turned into an indecisive asshole in this volume.

5. The whole "caught him by surprise thing" is not an excuse, Sena also caught him by surprise in the clubroom with her confession, only difference was one was serious about her confession the other had to resort to crying and stealing a kiss, oh look another asspull.

6. Like it has been mentioned, Sena had development to the teeth, Yukimura had next to none (from what I've read in the thread she got minimal develoment in the latest volume, which is still not enough to compare to the others), Rika got develoment but more in the friendship direction, apart from Sena Yozora was the other one to get a lot of development (all of which only pointed to a bad end for her) but it wasn't even close to the development Sena got, I agree with you that it seems the whole thing got oit of thw authors hand but how the hell do you dismiss/overlook so much character development on the Sena and Kodaka front and choose to partially (if you can even call it that) develop a character (i'm guessing not even in half of the volume) a character mind you that has been a mystery for literally the whole series and have her pull something like this (which seems very out of character) and settle on something that alienates your readership in such a way that makes any development so far meaningless?

Now as has been mentioned theu are only spoilers and might be wrong (I don't know if they are since I haven't read the volume) but if they turn out to be true as I said this volume will only serve to basically and literally make any other development in the whole series meaningless and that's not a feeling I like to have when I invest so much time I to something, I'm not asking for the story I want to be told, all I'm asking for is to have a story that actually makes sense in a comprehensive way when I read it and that doesn't include a whole volume made to throw away everything that's been built up because the author got tired of the series (which it feels like that's what happened and the author decided to troll the fanbase) or it didn't go as the author planned and the ending he wanted wouldn't work anymore so he had to asspull it in the end to get something kinda similar or satisfactory for himself and himself only (at least that's the feeling I get).

[Somethindarker]

Spoiler:

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

1. Kodaka only ever noticed and commented on how cute Yukimura was, he never said he loved her, liked yes but not loved and it was never shown to be love.

2. He said he loved Sena and with the way he said it, it wasn't made to feel like it was only physically (you can love someone for both their true self and physically), when Sena confessed she admitted her true feelings which lead me into my next point...

3. The whole "him being a prize to one up the other girls" thing (if it is in the volume) and then leaving the club sounds like an asspull because Kodaka already knew that they had been "competing" for him, so him acting like this after he was confessed by Sena (who like I said admitted her true feelings for her and at that tine wasn't thinking in any way or form about one upping anyone) and then confessing back to her, which everyone in the club knew was said and done, add ti that that they must have known that he clearly stated he wouldn't date anyone in the club, makes it seems like an asspull if they for some reason started the "competition" once again out of the blue, also why would Kodaka give up so easily on the very thing he is trying to protect? All this does is make Kodaka look like an lying indecisive asshole.

4. What is this whole "Rika is the only one who saw him for who he was" thing? She was part if the so called "competition" the only thing that changed was that she became his friend and after all the times he rejected her, calling her an idiot and only treating her like a friend he suddenly loves Rika? If this is mentioned in the volume sounds like another asspull and anofher reason Kodaka seemed to have turned into an indecisive asshole in this volume.

5. The whole "caught him by surprise thing" is not an excuse, Sena also caught him by surprise in the clubroom with her confession, only difference was one was serious about her confession the other had to resort to crying and stealing a kiss, oh look another asspull.

6. Like it has been mentioned, Sena had development to the teeth, Yukimura had next to none (from what I've read in the thread she got minimal develoment in the latest volume, which is still not enough to compare to the others), Rika got develoment but more in the friendship direction, apart from Sena Yozora was the other one to get a lot of development (all of which only pointed to a bad end for her) but it wasn't even close to the development Sena got, I agree with you that it seems the whole thing got oit of thw authors hand but how the hell do you dismiss/overlook so much character development on the Sena and Kodaka front and choose to partially (if you can even call it that) develop a character (i'm guessing not even in half of the volume) a character mind you that has been a mystery for literally the whole series and have her pull something like this (which seems very out of character) and settle on something that alienates your readership in such a way that makes any development so far meaningless?

Now as has been mentioned theu are only spoilers and might be wrong (I don't know if they are since I haven't read the volume) but if they turn out to be true as I said this volume will only serve to basically and literally make any other development in the whole series meaningless and that's not a feeling I like to have when I invest so much time I to something, I'm not asking for the story I want to be told, all I'm asking for is to have a story that actually makes sense in a comprehensive way when I read it and that doesn't include a whole volume made to throw away everything that's been built up because the author got tired of the series (which it feels like that's what happened and the author decided to troll the fanbase) or it didn't go as the author planned and the ending he wanted wouldn't work anymore so he had to asspull it in the end to get something kinda similar or satisfactory for himself and himself only (at least that's the feeling I get).

1. You can date someone without loving them. You can marry someone without loving them. etc;. I never said he loved her. She caught him by surprise. Picture this, you're walking down the hall contemplating you're actions kind of sad you won't get to hang out with your friends as much. The a pretty girl who you're fond of confesses her love for you, pins you up against the wall and basically makes out with you. Then while in a daze of trying to figure out what's happened she asks you a question that you answer without thinking. You can't blame the guy. Especially a 16 year old kid.

2. I'm not gonna argue about what he said to Sena. But you gotta remember these are high school kids. WTF do they know about love? Although technically he only said "tsuki" which is a less intense version of love and he seemed more fixated on WHAT he wanted to do with Sena. When Yuki confessed she used "Ai",which is full blown love" and when he was thinking of Rika he also use "Ai". So feelings and situations can change plus. There is still the epilogue so it's not over just yet.

3. I'm talking about perspective. The author used a common trope in harems to illustrate a point love is not a competition as is friendship. It wasn't out right said in the story but was what I personally got from the novel. The girls were competing for him but Sena and Yozora were viewing him as a prize to one up each other. There's plenty of evidence of that those two rubbing it in each other's faces every time they got "ahead" of the other. Yuki and Rika were never like that every time they got face time with Kodaka. Although this doesn't matter it's a moot point. Kodaka quitting the club is protecting it, by stepping out of the way he's making sure the girls can have a place to be themselves and become closer without him serving as a distraction. If anything that's the only time Kodaka has been decisive of about anything.

4. Rika got major development in volumes 7-10 and yes she friend zoned herself. My buddy said that she was Kodaka's "rock" and he realized that out of all the girls she never had high expectations from him. Yuki saw him as some badass mans man who she should emulate, Yozora was just trying to relive her good days by being together with him and Sena only payed attention to because Yozora was so interested in him. In short, out of all the girls Rika knew him the best and loved him for who he was and didn't expect anything from him. It's explained better in the novel you'd have to wait and see this is all second hand information.

5. I agree it's an asspull but the reaction to it is understandable.

6. All the girls got development except Yuki which is why most people are in an uproar my guess is the author is going to a take a break after the epilogue and maybe do another series with the characters during their 3rd year.

Honestly I'd have to finish volume 9 and 10 to understand some of the decisions made. My buddy said most of the uproar in japan and from what I've seen here is not the Yuki confession or anything. It's that the author suddenly pulled the rug out from under us is just rushing to the finish. Alooot of was literally just ignored like Kate finding out that she had a chance, the student council Hinata and Aoi, Yozora's healing, Yukimura not caring about the girls in the club, Kobato and a lot of ther things just to finish this in 2 volumes. Honestly, fuck this story, the editor and the author.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Somethindarker

1. You can date someone without loving them. You can marry someone without loving them. etc;. I never said he loved her. She caught him by surprise. Picture this, you're walking down the hall contemplating you're actions kind of sad you won't get to hang out with your friends as much. The a pretty girl who you're fond of confesses her love for you, pins you up against the wall and basically makes out with you. Then while in a daze of trying to figure out what's happened she asks you a question that you answer without thinking. You can't blame the guy. Especially a 16 year old kid.

Actually I can blame him. The justification you gave is the same justification of pretty much every cheater out there. It doesn't wash.

Kodaka isn't an animal, he has a brain for a reason. He should have gently let her down rather than agree to the date.

Sena only payed attention to because Yozora was so interested in him.

That's completely untrue. I won't say there wasn't some element of competition to it, but Sena didn't start paying attention to him because of Yozora, nor is that why she liked him.

She liked him because he was the only person to treat her like an ordinary person instead of some perfect princess, back when he scolded her for getting high and mighty with those guys hitting on her at the pool.

[allfictions]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

1. Kodaka only ever noticed and commented on how cute Yukimura was, he never said he loved her, liked yes but not loved and it was never shown to be love.

Ahem.

Originally Posted by Volume 9 Chapter 4

"What do you think of everyone, with the exception of Sena-senpai. To put it simply, what do you think of Yukimura-kun and Yozora-senpai?"

Staring directly at me, Rika asked that of me.

I replied to her with how I honestly felt in my heart.

"I like Yukimura... Probably."

"Eh?!"

Upon hearing my reply, Rika started to shake quite considerably.

"Ah, no, I don't understand it exactly, but... How do I say it... Y-Yukimura makes my heart flutter a bit..."

"A bit, huh? W-Well is that, um, do you mean 'like' as in, like a member of the opposite sex?"

"P-Probably, yeah... I think?"

I hesitated while answering.

Earlier, I clearly declared that I loved Sena, but now that I thought about it, for me to be able to say such a thing was pretty surprising.

But not just Sena, it was an unmistakable truth that I had also become interested in Yukimura.

"W-When did this happen?!"

I replied to Rika who was leaning forward and asking that of me:

"Eh? Ah... Since back then, I think."

"Back then?!"

"Yeah. Before your text came calling me up here, I happened to bump into her, it was at that time when I started to think that..."

"...Yukimura-kun, to be able to do such an incredible thing in such a short time... Setting such a huge flag...”

In the first place, when we had been to the pool together and were changing in the locker room, I was quite shocked, because I still had thought Yukimura was a guy at that time.

Whenever it had become more clear that Yukimura might be a woman, I persuaded myself with, ‘this person’s a guy’, so I didn’t deem it necessary to hold myself back. When Yukimura suddenly showed me her sweet and pure innocence with every little thing she did, it made my heart jump.

To be honest, if I count the amount of times I’ve honestly thought, 'this person's cute’, unfortunately for Sena, I’ve thought it a lot more about Yukimura.

And, even though under normal circumstances I thought she was charming, when I saw her before I came to the rooftop, the strength of her will was something unwavering.

—Does it have to make sense?
—Does it have to be necessary?
—I stay by Aniki’s side because I want to.

Those words of Yukimura’s greatly influenced my reply to Sena’s confession.

Even though sometimes I was a little surprised by what goes on in her head, her tidiness and sweetness, calmness and soft manners, and yet despite all that being so strong-willed, I honestly idolized it.

To be honest, I think I would still be fascinated by it even if Yukimura was a man.

“...Well, Yukimura is a good woman... So Rika can understand how you came to like her.”

It was pretty clear, unless you have another meaning for "but not just Sena", and "interested as well". Of course without the original text, can't say whether my or your interpretation is right.