AnimeSuki Forums

tsunade666 · 2010-10-18, 13:30

not really update.... how to put it.

his way of doing things.

He wants to protect the world by instilling fear and anger towards the citizens. His forcing his way through the hearts and that is not the way of the Horus which represents the Freedom of Will.

If he really wants to protects the world he shouldn't use such brute method such as this. Even waging war so the whole world would go against him.

Look at Aleister. His not forcing others to bow unto him by brute force. His even inviting them to become an esper. His open to the people of Japan.
"if you want to be protected then come to our side"
kind of scheme. Alesiter is letting you choose on your own though their isn't any other choices left to make.

Instead of forcing everybody by brute force like Fiamma. Aleister use the alternative of cornering them to joining him.

Using brute force on the whole wide world. Do you think that it wouldn't end with the world uniting as one banner and stand to fight against you. Tyranny would always end in a revolt and human beings aren't that weak to loose hope that easily. People would always stand up and fight.

And by the time that everyone in the world is against him. The anger and hate turns into hope. The negative emotions on the world which feeds power to the holy right that purge every evil ensuring absolute conquer fades away.

Well their isn't anything to purge so their is no use for holy right.

That's why Touma also said this to Fiamma. You create all this mess so you can stand on that ground. I can stand on my ground when I'm surrounded by magicians and esper. My power would come into use. But for you, you need an enemy to purge and stop and without that enemy you wouldn't be of any use at all.

Cosmic Eagle · 2010-10-18, 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

not really update.... how to put it.

his way of doing things.

He wants to protect the world by instilling fear and anger towards the citizens. His forcing his way through the hearts and that is not the way of the Horus which represents the Freedom of Will.

If he really wants to protects the world he shouldn't use such brute method such as this. Even waging war so the whole world would go against him.

Look at Aleister. His not forcing others to bow unto him by brute force. His even inviting them to become an esper. His open to the people of Japan.
"if you want to be protected then come to our side"
kind of scheme. Alesiter is letting you choose on your own though their isn't any other choices left to make.

Instead of forcing everybody by brute force like Fiamma. Aleister use the alternative of cornering them to joining him.

Using brute force on the whole wide world. Do you think that it wouldn't end with the world uniting as one banner and stand to fight against you. Tyranny would always end in a revolt and human beings aren't that weak to loose hope that easily. People would always stand up and fight.

And by the time that everyone in the world is against him. The anger and hate turns into hope. The negative emotions on the world which feeds power to the holy right that purge every evil ensuring absolute conquer fades away.

Well their isn't anything to purge so their is no use for holy right.

That's why Touma also said this to Fiamma. You create all this mess so you can stand on that ground. I can stand on my ground when I'm surrounded by magicians and esper. My power would come into use. But for you, you need an enemy to purge and stop and without that enemy you wouldn't be of any use at all.

Which makes you think just what the hell can that Blasting Rod do.......To actually be more devastating than Holy Right even if it's wielded by a broken Fianma...After all, I doubt Fianma would actually hold back against someone as deadly as Crowley.

tsunade666 · 2010-10-18, 14:40

well that fiamma is already battered by Touma, lost control of holy right thanks to lost of index controller. Plus the war ended thanks to Touma blasting the archangel with him to the arctic ocean. With that all the conflicts of the world ended. The negative emotions are turning positive with everyone celebrating.

With all the preparation Fiamma make to complete his holy right all turn into dust. Holy right isn't much of a threat compared when their is a real trouble. Well it matches the strength of the opponent and for Fiamma his opponent is the world itself. His view of the world needs to be saved twisted him into that.

Fiamma and Aleister are the same in what their doing and probably the goal but different in methods to do it.

That's probably why Crowley took care of him himself. Fiamma knows to much about something which he doesn't need to know.

~~I_am_Kami~~ · 2010-10-18, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

Purgatory? I bet he himself turn into an angel fall but for him he fall straight to hell with succubus by his side. Now his having manly conversation with Lucifer and asking what's with the dragon on my right hand.

Then Lucifer would say. "what you don't remember?"
Touma - "huh?"
Lucifer - " I'm your father!"

Touma - " FUUUUUUUKOU DAAAAAAAAAA!!!"

Loloololololololol.

~~I_am_Kami~~ · 2010-10-18, 15:11

would u think it would be cooler if touma has lucifer inside him or

his dad is Lucifer and toumas like an "anti christ"

Im just throwing this out there, tsunades comment got me good

Miraluka · 2010-10-18, 15:34

I think if Fiamma manages to get into the Age of Horus, soon or later will fight against:
a) Aleister
b) Odin
c) Lucifer
But before that he needs to grow defeating some minor bosses.

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-10-18, 17:48

Actually, I was hoping Fiamma's future role would be that of a mentor, helping Touma refine his Imagine Breaker to it's fullest potential. Just like what he did to his Holy Right.

Miraluka · 2010-10-18, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flere821

-It's confirmed that Index's red wings are like a angel's.
-Frey's sword that Index is using is said to be undefeatable, and Frey only lost in Ragnarok because he have that sword to someone else in that war.

So Index has some divine power within her right? I wonder if somebody with the proper knowledge.

This can explain why Accelerator was moved by her song and then awakened.

About Freyre, the god gave up his hax sword as a gift the giants because he crazily fell in love with a woman who rejected him despite his various gifts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Actually, I was hoping Fiamma's future role would be that of a mentor, helping Touma refine his Imagine Breaker to it's fullest potential. Just like what he did to his Holy Right.

By the time being Touma's took a vacation, maybe later when he returns from the heaven/purgatory/disney/hell to help his friends.

Xenosnake · 2010-10-18, 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Actually, I was hoping Fiamma's future role would be that of a mentor, helping Touma refine his Imagine Breaker to it's fullest potential. Just like what he did to his Holy Right.

[Using the Holy Right, Fiamma effortlessly frees the X-Wing from the bog]
Touma: " I don't, I don't believe it."
Fiamma: "That is why you fail."

Touma coming back more powerful and punching Aleister. Then Aleister gets a loli to.

MeisterBabylon · 2010-10-18, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

I think if Fiamma manages to get into the Age of Horus, soon or later will fight against:
a) Aleister
b) Odin
c) Lucifer
But before that he needs to grow defeating some minor bosses.

Touma: Sorry not bringing you to raid tonight. Go grind some more level.
Fiamma: :<

Miraluka · 2010-10-18, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenosnake

[Using the Holy Right, Fiamma effortlessly frees the X-Wing from the bog]
Touma: " I don't, I don't believe it."
Fiamma: "That is why you fail."

I don't get it....

Xenosnake · 2010-10-18, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

I don't get it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLrpBLDWyCI

I could see Fiamma as the mentorish type though. An older type gentleman living in a swamp while acting senile.

MeisterBabylon · 2010-10-18, 19:44

Given the I Am Your Father trope earlier, I doubt this ref could've been missed.

Cosmic Eagle · 2010-10-18, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

well that fiamma is already battered by Touma, lost control of holy right thanks to lost of index controller. Plus the war ended thanks to Touma blasting the archangel with him to the arctic ocean. With that all the conflicts of the world ended. The negative emotions are turning positive with everyone celebrating.

With all the preparation Fiamma make to complete his holy right all turn into dust. Holy right isn't much of a threat compared when their is a real trouble. Well it matches the strength of the opponent and for Fiamma his opponent is the world itself. His view of the world needs to be saved twisted him into that.

Fiamma and Aleister are the same in what their doing and probably the goal but different in methods to do it.

That's probably why Crowley took care of him himself. Fiamma knows to much about something which he doesn't need to know.

Yes but at the end his opponent was simply Aleister. Not the kind of person you would unconsciously hold back against and definitely a serious enough threat for Holy Right to work properly against, even if it is an incomplete Holy Right.

Despite the fact that he was completely broken at the end first by the failure of his plan and the realization that his world views were wrong then by Aleister's speech that his Christian format was outdated.....hell the latter should actually make clearer to him just how much a threat Crowley is.

Flere821 · 2010-10-18, 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

By changing direction I assume you mean like Touma grab the spell and fling it elsewhere or even back at him?

Which reminds me, how did Fiamma intend to 'process' Imagine Breaker? What was his secret preparations that allow him to do so without it getting cancelled?

It might be a clue as to how to refine Imagine Breaker without getting destroyed in the process.

But still, Shiage is quite the player... PLUS, he already has a girlfriend.

Niiiicccceeee...

Immortal Witch?

Meet Flemeth.

But seriously, what does she mean immortal?

Again, deflection as in he grabs it, and swings it anywhere he wants?

I mean deflect like 'a ball flys towards you and you smack it to another direction'. Except Touma went and smashed a 'Starlight Breaker' grade beam upwards when he thought if he takes it head on he'll be killed.

And Vassilisa is immortal as in 'She won't die even if she is killed' - She got half her body melted down and didn't even feel the damage - she healed herself seconds later.

Fiamma was planning to get Touma's Right Hand, get rid of Imagine Breaker's ability and then channel his Holy Right through that hand instead. Except he failed when Touma regrew his arm.

And yes, Shiage should be beaten up by all of ITEM for trying to play them all like that.

Suzuku · 2010-10-18, 22:13

Why did Fiamma want Touma's hand without Imagine Breaker though? Is there something special about his hand in general?

Also, can you translate the part where Touma senses Fiamma attacking from behind him? I want to know exactly how that scene played out.

Marcus H. · 2010-10-18, 22:13

Next stop for Hamazura: Saiai flag. O_O
Problem is, Rikou is gonna be a Level 5 soon.

Current Level 5 Standings
#1: Accelerator - On a vengeful march back to Academy City
#2: Teitoku Kakine - Brain left surviving, dependent on Dark Legacy
#3: Mikoto Misaka - Lamenting over Kamijou Touma no Shoushitsu
#4: Shizuri Mugino - Physically falling apart; possibly at terminal stages
#5: The Queen - Still not showing up
#6: Unknown
#7: Gunha Sogiita - Stuck in a chaotic Academy City
#8(?): Rikou Takitsubo - No more limitations, ability development now possible

Flere821 · 2010-10-18, 22:20

I think the bit about his hand was already mentioned before in this thread a few days back... something about it being the 'output mechanism' most suited for supernatural powers or something...

and here's a translation of that bit when Fiamma gets behind Touma - it's only a few sentence though:

Spoiler:

And it's debatable that Touma sensed Fiamma not just due to his limited precognition but probably Fiamma was talking when he attacked.

Master Assassin · 2010-10-18, 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flere821

And Vassilisa is immortal as in 'She won't die even if she is killed' - She got half her body melted down and didn't even feel the damage - she healed herself seconds later.

... Waiting for someone to invoke the Shirou's "People Die If They Are Killed" chain reaction images, whatever you call it

shmaster · 2010-10-18, 22:34

It seems there is a misconception here...
No, Index's Spell Intercept song is not what made Accelerator going angel.
Accelerator goes into black wing mode as a rebound of detecting Fiamma's Telesma in the golden sky. Then goes angel after he had his change of heart.
Accelerator signing Spell Intercept and going angel is two separate event.

Now, this is the exact order of event on how Fiamma got beaten.
IB actually didn't increase in power, it is just too much had happened that Holy Right get down powered back to its starting state:

1. Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox combined power to break down Star of Bethlehem. With the star losing power and the Christians united, Holy Right gets powered down.
2. When Fiamma begin purging the world, everyone united against him. The world become much more hopeful, Holy Right power down. (at this point, Fiamma's source of energy cannot catch up to his output anymore)
3. Fiamma is now weak enough to be damaged, and Touma break the flesh that contained Holy Right. More power down.
4. Touma falcon punched, and Fiamma dropped Index's remote control. And this is the end of you Fiamma.

Basically, everything Fiamma had prepared for his Holy Right has been undone in a rapid fashion.

As for the question on how Fiamma integrated IB into Holy Right... Fiamma actually doesn't want the IB, he just want Touma's right hand, the vessel to conatin divine power.
He cut of Touma's arm, and then break down every strings of its muscle, blood vessel, neurons, and then recompose them into a Reisou and fuse it with Holy Right. With a vessel, Holy Right finally can take a physical form. Fiamma sees the power of IB as a self purification function for Holy Right, which he believe is not necessary.

Finally, for our immortal witch Vassilisa, her name actually is same as a girl who appears in a Russian tale who use the aid to a man-eating ogress (in a lack of better words. I need to look up the original tale) to kill her mother and sister and gained her happiness. By bearing that name, Vassilisa receives the protection from the ogress just like that tale. And among the tales told about the ogress, very few of them shown the ogress been defeated, in other words, there is almost no way of defeating her. In one of the story that ogress was killed, it is a story about the ogress guarding the water of life and water of death. In that story, the human pushed the ogress into water of death, killing her, and obtain the water of life. So Nikolai prepared the same water of death to kill Vassilisa. The water of death purged half of Vassilisa's body... but ti didn't kill her. She simply regenerates herself back using the water of life. In other words, because the water of life originally belongs to the ogress, even if you find a way to kill her, she can always be return back to life using the water of life.

2010-10-18, 13:30	Link #5461
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	not really update.... how to put it. his way of doing things. He wants to protect the world by instilling fear and anger towards the citizens. His forcing his way through the hearts and that is not the way of the Horus which represents the Freedom of Will. If he really wants to protects the world he shouldn't use such brute method such as this. Even waging war so the whole world would go against him. Look at Aleister. His not forcing others to bow unto him by brute force. His even inviting them to become an esper. His open to the people of Japan. "if you want to be protected then come to our side" kind of scheme. Alesiter is letting you choose on your own though their isn't any other choices left to make. Instead of forcing everybody by brute force like Fiamma. Aleister use the alternative of cornering them to joining him. Using brute force on the whole wide world. Do you think that it wouldn't end with the world uniting as one banner and stand to fight against you. Tyranny would always end in a revolt and human beings aren't that weak to loose hope that easily. People would always stand up and fight. And by the time that everyone in the world is against him. The anger and hate turns into hope. The negative emotions on the world which feeds power to the holy right that purge every evil ensuring absolute conquer fades away. Well their isn't anything to purge so their is no use for holy right. That's why Touma also said this to Fiamma. You create all this mess so you can stand on that ground. I can stand on my ground when I'm surrounded by magicians and esper. My power would come into use. But for you, you need an enemy to purge and stop and without that enemy you wouldn't be of any use at all. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2010-10-18, 14:40	Link #5463
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	well that fiamma is already battered by Touma, lost control of holy right thanks to lost of index controller. Plus the war ended thanks to Touma blasting the archangel with him to the arctic ocean. With that all the conflicts of the world ended. The negative emotions are turning positive with everyone celebrating. With all the preparation Fiamma make to complete his holy right all turn into dust. Holy right isn't much of a threat compared when their is a real trouble. Well it matches the strength of the opponent and for Fiamma his opponent is the world itself. His view of the world needs to be saved twisted him into that. Fiamma and Aleister are the same in what their doing and probably the goal but different in methods to do it. That's probably why Crowley took care of him himself. Fiamma knows to much about something which he doesn't need to know. __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero

2010-10-18, 17:48	Link #5467
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Actually, I was hoping Fiamma's future role would be that of a mentor, helping Touma refine his Imagine Breaker to it's fullest potential. Just like what he did to his Holy Right. __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2010-10-18, 19:44	Link #5473
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	Given the I Am Your Father trope earlier, I doubt this ref could've been missed. __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2010-10-18, 22:13	Link #5476
Suzuku (`･⊝･´)/\(`･⊝･´) Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Jacksonville, FL Age: 30	Why did Fiamma want Touma's hand without Imagine Breaker though? Is there something special about his hand in general? Also, can you translate the part where Touma senses Fiamma attacking from behind him? I want to know exactly how that scene played out. __________________ BRAVO VINCE

2010-10-18, 15:11	Link #5465
~~I_am_Kami~~ Disabled By Request Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The 305 Age: 30	would u think it would be cooler if touma has lucifer inside him or his dad is Lucifer and toumas like an "anti christ" Im just throwing this out there, tsunades comment got me good

2010-10-18, 15:34	Link #5466
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	I think if Fiamma manages to get into the Age of Horus, soon or later will fight against: a) Aleister b) Odin c) Lucifer But before that he needs to grow defeating some minor bosses.

2010-10-18, 22:13	Link #5477
Marcus H. Princess or Plunderer? Join Date: May 2009 Location: the Philippines	Next stop for Hamazura: Saiai flag. O_O Problem is, Rikou is gonna be a Level 5 soon. Current Level 5 Standings #1: Accelerator - On a vengeful march back to Academy City #2: Teitoku Kakine - Brain left surviving, dependent on Dark Legacy #3: Mikoto Misaka - Lamenting over Kamijou Touma no Shoushitsu #4: Shizuri Mugino - Physically falling apart; possibly at terminal stages #5: The Queen - Still not showing up #6: Unknown #7: Gunha Sogiita - Stuck in a chaotic Academy City #8(?): Rikou Takitsubo - No more limitations, ability development now possible __________________ Continuing: White Sand Aquatope (6/24) and Vanitas S2 (0/12), The Vampire Dies in No Time S2 and Bofuri S2 (3/12). 2021: Restaurant to Another World S2 (3/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/12) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12). 2022: Yuusha Yamemasu (1/12), Kaguya-sama S3, Mob Psycho 100 III (Oct06), Bleach: 1000 Year Blood War (2/13) and Chainsaw Man (6/12). Spring 2023: Yamada-kun to Lv999 no Koi wo Suru, Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear Punch! (4/12), Skip to Loafer, Tonikaku Kawaii S2 (1/12), Otonari ni Ginga (5/12) and Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia (3/13). Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList. Anime List Status ~ Watching: 33. Completed: 468. Plan to watch: 39.

2010-10-18, 22:20	Link #5478
Flere821 Lurker Join Date: Aug 2010	I think the bit about his hand was already mentioned before in this thread a few days back... something about it being the 'output mechanism' most suited for supernatural powers or something... and here's a translation of that bit when Fiamma gets behind Touma - it's only a few sentence though: Spoiler: What's more ridiculous is, "So, just relying on magic is still not enough? Right behind him. Kamijou doesn't have the leisure to ascertain who was the one that spoke. Fiamma of the Right is already there. 'The Third Arm' is holding a shining large sword. That sword, with Kamijou's head as it's target, swung horizontally. And it's debatable that Touma sensed Fiamma not just due to his limited precognition but probably Fiamma was talking when he attacked.

2010-10-18, 22:34	Link #5480
shmaster オンドリャァァァ!!! Join Date: May 2009	It seems there is a misconception here... No, Index's Spell Intercept song is not what made Accelerator going angel. Accelerator goes into black wing mode as a rebound of detecting Fiamma's Telesma in the golden sky. Then goes angel after he had his change of heart. Accelerator signing Spell Intercept and going angel is two separate event. Now, this is the exact order of event on how Fiamma got beaten. IB actually didn't increase in power, it is just too much had happened that Holy Right get down powered back to its starting state: 1. Catholics, Anglicans, Orthodox combined power to break down Star of Bethlehem. With the star losing power and the Christians united, Holy Right gets powered down. 2. When Fiamma begin purging the world, everyone united against him. The world become much more hopeful, Holy Right power down. (at this point, Fiamma's source of energy cannot catch up to his output anymore) 3. Fiamma is now weak enough to be damaged, and Touma break the flesh that contained Holy Right. More power down. 4. Touma falcon punched, and Fiamma dropped Index's remote control. And this is the end of you Fiamma. Basically, everything Fiamma had prepared for his Holy Right has been undone in a rapid fashion. As for the question on how Fiamma integrated IB into Holy Right... Fiamma actually doesn't want the IB, he just want Touma's right hand, the vessel to conatin divine power. He cut of Touma's arm, and then break down every strings of its muscle, blood vessel, neurons, and then recompose them into a Reisou and fuse it with Holy Right. With a vessel, Holy Right finally can take a physical form. Fiamma sees the power of IB as a self purification function for Holy Right, which he believe is not necessary. Finally, for our immortal witch Vassilisa, her name actually is same as a girl who appears in a Russian tale who use the aid to a man-eating ogress (in a lack of better words. I need to look up the original tale) to kill her mother and sister and gained her happiness. By bearing that name, Vassilisa receives the protection from the ogress just like that tale. And among the tales told about the ogress, very few of them shown the ogress been defeated, in other words, there is almost no way of defeating her. In one of the story that ogress was killed, it is a story about the ogress guarding the water of life and water of death. In that story, the human pushed the ogress into water of death, killing her, and obtain the water of life. So Nikolai prepared the same water of death to kill Vassilisa. The water of death purged half of Vassilisa's body... but ti didn't kill her. She simply regenerates herself back using the water of life. In other words, because the water of life originally belongs to the ogress, even if you find a way to kill her, she can always be return back to life using the water of life.