2007-05-25, 03:57 | Link #2 |
Aegisub dev
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Age: 39
|
Video that's mod mod16 needs to be padded up to mod16 for the codec to be able to encode it. This padding obviously makes the encoded images larger and creates some possibly harder-to-encode cases in the edge regions where the padding has been applied.
Although the difference from 396 to 400 lines is only 4 lines that need to be added, which doesn't cost much in inefficiency. It's still a better idea to go for mod16 resolutions though, for compatibility reasons. If you want to you can stretch the video into a mod16 frame and set it anamorphic in the container. Ie. encode at 704x400 but sat 16:9 anamorphic in the container, to get 711.11x400 on playback.
__________________
|
2007-05-25, 15:05 | Link #4 |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
|
By far the greatest concern you should have is not blaspheming TheFluff's religious beliefs. Unless you follow his teachings exactly, you should expect a hugely long winded and point-by-point reply explaining exactly why you have just offended his God, and how you might repent for your sins. To avoid this, either don't ask this oft' asked quandry, or just do what he says.
Other than that, it's something that only encoders would really care about.
__________________
|
2007-05-25, 15:53 | Link #5 | |
Excessively jovial fellow
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 37
|
Quote:
I wish I could write burns like that one.
__________________
|
|
2007-05-25, 19:13 | Link #6 | |
I see what you did there!
Scanlator
|
Quote:
__________________
|
|
2007-05-25, 19:24 | Link #8 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
|
Quote:
To put it another way, x needs to be divisible by 16. 704 is divisible by 16. 400 is divisible by 16, but 396 is not. Why 704x396, then? because 704/396 = 16/9, i.e. the aspect ratio is exact. 704/400= not exactly 16/9 (off by a percent or so), and therefore there is a tiny bit of distortion. To answer WHY mod 16 is so important requires that you understand a little bit about how all mpeg based compression works. The primary "element" in such a compression is a macroblock, sized 16x16 pixels. The original video is divided into these logical blocks as part of the compression algorithm. If the video isn't divisble by 16 both horizontally and vertically, then some of these blocks need to be "padded" with fake data for the compression scheme to work. This wastes bits depending on the implementation of the encoder. Also, technically it is not even in the specifications of the format to have a resolution that is not mod 16, so hardware playback of such encodes might be borked (although, in practice, most divx DVD players have no trouble playing them back). The amount of wasted bits is not noticable to the vast majority of the viewers. The amount of aspect ratio distortion is also not noticable to the vast majority of the viewers. The solution where you specify an aspect ratio in the container like mkv and the player dynamically fixes the aspect ratio is also not noticable to the viewer. That's pretty much all there is to say on the subject.
__________________
|
|
2007-05-25, 19:49 | Link #10 | ||
King of Hosers
Join Date: Dec 2005
Age: 41
|
Quote:
Mostly the above is only relevant to DVD encodes because you actually have some semblance of control over the source. Unlike with jpn caps in which you are just stuck with what you got. Quote:
|
||
2007-05-25, 21:33 | Link #11 | |
In exile
Join Date: May 2006
Location: There! Not there! There!
Age: 36
|
Quote:
Poor XviD has been abused for years and very few seem to be looking into changing this abusive behavior.
__________________
|
|
2007-05-26, 00:38 | Link #13 | |
Two bit encoder
Fansubber
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Age: 39
|
Yes, all current and past MPEG specs benefit from mod 16, because they all make use of 16x16 macroblocks (and H.264 also has smaller blocks, but mod16 is derived from the largest block size).
I posted about this some time ago, and even still images benefit from this idea, but since they do not use macroblocks, mod8 is fine (it's to do with DCT). http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...7&postcount=11 Quote:
Also what Nicholi was trying to get at was the image aspect ratio and frame size/aspect ratio. Providing you resize the image correctly, it doesn't matter how much you crop after, because it does not affect the aspect ratio of the image, just the aspect ratio of the frame. For example, resizing from 720x480 to 640x360 and cropping to 640x352 is fine, resizing from 720x480 to 640x352 introduces AR error.
__________________
|
|
2007-05-26, 07:31 | Link #15 |
Two bit encoder
Fansubber
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Chesterfield, UK
Age: 39
|
Yeah, mod32 basically comes from having two fields at mod16; the width is obviously not affected by interlacing, so it can still be mod 16. If you had an interlaced encode that was mod16; it means that each field is now mod8, so for instance 704x400 is not a good resolution for interlaced encodes because each field has 200 lines of resolution, which is obviously not mod16; and suboptimal.
Either way you look at it, it still boils down to mod16; either mod16 frames, or mod16 fields (but since there are two fields, it becomes mod32 overall).
__________________
|
2007-05-26, 18:56 | Link #18 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
|
Quote:
|
|
2007-05-26, 19:39 | Link #19 |
makes no files now
Join Date: May 2006
|
I wouldn't say it's laziness or ignorance. Take a look at the AR error. It's really small, and I would say not worth to bother over it and have the decoder resize the output. And as you said, you can set it yourself when playing back, so there really isn't a problem if you feel like you really need that 16/9 AR...
__________________
|
2007-05-26, 21:31 | Link #20 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|