(L) Last Exile -Fam, The Silver Wing-

[Joachim1167]

Originally Posted by Jokun

If I didn't know any better I would say Fam and Sara could be blood sisters, heh heh, with their affinity toward the reestablishment of the Grand Race and peace to all outlook.

Well, I think that is the eventual goal of the series...right?

[LystAP]

Spoiler for Original Turan Exiles (Episode 16):

Anyone else notice the refugees heading back to Turan; apparently, the Ades were correct (back in episode 2 or 3 I think) in that the original Turan Exiles forced out the original population. And it doesn't look like those originals were mislead or brainwashed, some of them seem to be actual descendants (grandchildren/great grandchildren) who remember being thrown out.

A lot of those Turan officers look pretty upset that the original inhabitants are being allowed to head back, and Millia was wondered if this was one of the things which motivated her sister's turn. Kind of verifying Luscina's viewpoint that people are bastards. :P

[leokiko]

Although I still don't agree with Fam being stupid in the meeting(and I hate her with passion), but there was a deeper truth to what she said there. Reasoning yourself with vengeance won't lead you to anything, everything will just repeat itself over and over again.



I still agree you guys here though: At emotional level, Fam isn't even 6+years old

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

1. Dian saying their Goddess is dead suggests that Glacies' Exile controller probably died in the assault.

2. I'm of course not surprised that Fam had that outburst, but for all her naivete she has a point: How does one get world peace if everyone just kills each other?

The Grand Race isn't merely some global event: it is the very symbolism of peace and unity. That fact should have been drilled to this point. I don't think there's anything wrong with the idealism that the Grand Race represents. Maybe I'm not as jaded as I thought, but I believe in Fam's words when she intends the Grand Race to return in a world where there is no war, no killing, no turmoil or suffering. The former Empress spoke of it as well.

But this is where the conflict begins. Fam believes in a world where peace can be achieved through understanding and friendship, where people can get along despite their differences. Luscinia believes that humans are intrinsically too different and confrontational and must be united by force. It is idealism versus cynicism. This clashing of ideologies has been used in many stories before. The question is to which one you believe in. Fam believes in hers so much that she is almost blinded to the reality that unfolds before her. Luscinia believes in his so much that he isn't above using and sacrificing people for this end. Both have some major issues to deal with in the episodes to come. There is that hint of madness mixed with sorrow in the laughter Luscinia shows us at the end of the episode, telling me he has given up on humans having enough goodness to want peace without force. This is likely why he finds ease in watching people die for his cause.

So I return to the question of which is the truth in this conflict, idealism or cynicism?

Neither, actually. Fam lives far too much in her dreamworld that she cannot see just how maligned reality can be. Likewise, Luscinia's despair has made him also unable to see the goodness of humanity. The real world, in fact, is a mix of both, but both of them are far too stuck in their extremes to see this. Both are at fault, neither of them can really succeed if they can't see this. For Fam, at least, she now needs a good reality check. For all the goodness and naivete she holds, she needs to see the world from a slightly different perspective.

Blog post tomorrow.

Well said.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Fam can be so damn insensitive sometimes. Wait, why do I say sometimes? I hope Millia will keep her word and discipline her, fufu.

Sara impressed me in this episode. She's so young and yet she's already carrying the fate of the whole world on her shoulders. She is in a very difficult situation, torn between Vasant and Luscina... I'm looking forward to what she will do. Oh and she's cute as hell.

For the love of... another recap!? And right after such a huge cliffhanger too! I hope they at least tried to make it interesting this time. Either way, a recap of the first season this late into the series is rather pointless. If the goal is to be make the series friendly to new viewers then they should have aired it before the show started.

The only way this recap won't suck for me is if it's not actually entirely a recap. Seeing what happened between the two series would be great.

Actually IMO I agree with Joachim1167 she wants to make this conflict be about more than just striking back, killing Luscinia, etc..

Agreed on Sara. And yeah Joachim and Jokun, it was inevitable and it finally happened Sara's been added lol

Heh, seeing the S1 footage I really can't view this as "just another recap" at least not yet since there are lot of possible uses for it and I hope they'll even use the opportunity to tie in the two year gap even if they can't go into the detail of the ongoing Hourglass manga (not to mention potentially introduce Claus, Lavie, and more background on Dio since he's already been prominent and new viewers don't know all of his history, perhaps even showing his rescue of how he survived for us old viewers heh, Anatoray-Disith and more about the Guild to new viewers ). I'm assuming this will only be called 15.5 like last time so since neither recap will have taken a full number I suspect we're still getting a full 24 eps and so the recaps haven't really cost us any episodes since a lot two cour shows only get 24-25 eps including a recap in the middle these days rather than 26 anyway.

Originally Posted by SeaDoor

I just need to get this off my chest... I can not remember the last series I watched where the title character so undermined an otherwise decent story.

As before I've liked Fam but I can understand some not liking her and her idealistic view, I think they could have found a middle ground for Fam's viewpoint with just a hint more adult-ness to her words for expressing even this same view, like Lavie pulled off with her naive but impassioned pleas that would have made some of Fam's critics like her more and perhaps to them make her feel a bit more in-tune with the darker majority of the story for them.

However I've had that undermined reaction most recently with Shu in Guilty Crown and Hibiki in Symphogear. To pick something obviously popular I also thought Gundam Seed was often undermined by Kira even though a lot of people liked him. His emo whininess got extremely annoying after a while for someone piloting some of the strongest Gundams in the show and Mwu didn't do a good enough job getting screentime for whipping him into shape and then there's the convenient timing of how he got the Freedom Gundam and was so overpowered that he could even preach his pacifist ideals mid-battle so much that he could even effortlessly target only the weapons of or cripple countless moving mechs simultaneously just as he decided not to kill, it was so convenient.

[hoarfrost]

Originally Posted by LystAP

Spoiler for Original Turan Exiles (Episode 16):

Anyone else notice the refugees heading back to Turan; apparently, the Ades were correct (back in episode 2 or 3 I think) in that the original Turan Exiles forced out the original population. And it doesn't look like those originals were mislead or brainwashed, some of them seem to be actual descendants (grandchildren/great grandchildren) who remember being thrown out.

A lot of those Turan officers look pretty upset that the original inhabitants are being allowed to head back, and Millia was wondered if this was one of the things which motivated her sister's turn. Kind of verifying Luscina's viewpoint that people are bastards. :P

This is the reason why I simply can't empathize with the rebels or condemn Luscinia. Up until now it seems like there is some festering boil on an otherwise blemish free Turan that the show has been covering up, so we don't really have a good idea of what is at stake and can't make an informed opinion.

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

But this is where the conflict begins. Fam believes in a world where peace can be achieved through understanding and friendship, where people can get along despite their differences. Luscinia believes that humans are intrinsically too different and confrontational and must be united by force.

I'd add that it certainly doesn't help cast Luscinia as unsympathetic in my eyes that what he believes is unfortunately verified by our own reality. Even what we think of now as homogenous countries and cultural groups were at one point in history united through sheer force and propaganda. It is so easy to forget in what are relatively speaking the most peaceful times in human history that this equilibrium had a high human cost.

On Fam, I don't so much dislike her for her naivete, it's understandable given her young age, but the bull headed way she attempts to enforce it on everyone around. There is such a thing as reading the mood and keeping quiet, even if you do have a point. I don't know what she thought she'd accomplish by waving her hands at a hornet's nest.

[Julio C]

That key that Luscinia used to open that door is similiar to the one Alauda found from one of the dead Guildsmen or is the same one. The symbol on the door is the one we saw from one of Delphine's rings. So it's obvius that is more Guild tech, but what exactly is puzzles me. It has to do something with Exile then.

Also Sara mentioned about Luscinia dream of an Ancient Goddess that sleeps at the end of the world, and it seems that Luscinia found it. However, who could this Goddess be?

It sucks that have to wait two weeks to find out since next week is another recap and I'm sure it covers the whole episode like the first one.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

1. Dian saying their Goddess is dead suggests that Glacies' Exile controller probably died in the assault.

Does the Glacies Exile even function like that....those old men seemed to hold joint control or something...

[MeoTwister5]

Well the Goddess bit represents either the Exile controller, or the Exile itself.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by tanqexe

I knew it was doujinshi material the moment Millia said that.

Millia has grown so much since the first episode, mainly because she's personally lost so much due to Luscinia's machinations. Fam on the other hand is just so out of touch with reality, and it's kind of a waste that she hasn't grown as a character in the same amount of time that we've known Millia.

Anyway, Luscinia's maniacal, apocalyptic laughter does not bode well for the rebellion.

That's my biggest problem with Fam. She has received little to no character development since the beginning of the series. Despite everything that happened, she is still exactly the same naive and idealistic kid she was in the first episode. Not that it's inherently a bad thing but... she could use some growing up. She was downright rude and insensitive in this ep.

Originally Posted by DangerMouse

Actually IMO I agree with Joachim1167 she wants to make this conflict be about more than just striking back, killing Luscinia, etc..

I was referring to her meeting with Sara and the dinner scene here. I believe her outburst during the assembly was justified and that she made a good point, even if her point of view is a bit naive as always.

[Haak]

Really liked this episode. Sara was adorable and cool and it's great to see the plot thicken more and more.

I think Fam can be a drag sometimes but I've actually warmed up to her, especially after she held that race for Millia in the last episode.

[j4c06]

Ha ha, so Sadri did not know what Luscinia was looking for in the North, but Augusta Sara did. Oh this sprinkling of sentimentality in the most cynical masterminds!

[hai_san]

I hope we get Claus and old Exile Cast new materials/scenes and not only recap.

[Joachim1167]

Originally Posted by SeaDoor

I just need to get this off my chest... I can not remember the last series I watched where the title character so undermined an otherwise decent story.

For me, (though not title characters) young Anakin/Jar Jar Binks in Phantom Menace and Shinji Ikari in Neon Genesis Evangelion are two I can think of right offhand. Thinking about these examples, I can be quite forgiving of Fam.

Originally Posted by hoarfrost

On Fam, I don't so much dislike her for her naivete, it's understandable given her young age, but the bull headed way she attempts to enforce it on everyone around.

That's one of the qualities that kind of endears me to her. I guess I'm just different from most folks. Drop Fam and Gisey into a blackhole and out pops a Konata Izumi in another universe.

[azarhal]

Originally Posted by Julio C

Also Sara mentioned about Luscinia dream of an Ancient Goddess that sleeps at the end of the world, and it seems that Luscinia found it. However, who could this Goddess be?

Another Exile or Exile like facility. The "arms" that raised out of the frozen ground look like Glacies's Exile which is different from the Turan's one or Anatoray. Which raise a lot more questions...

Although, the fact Luscinia had to use something found by Alauda among a bunch of dead Guilders a few episode back to open it make me wonder if the "Travelers of the Hourglass" manga is going to be canon (i.e. by this point the Guilders calling themselves "The Earth Guild" should have showed up) or if Anatoray purged them all...

[Jokun]

Originally Posted by hai_san

I hope we get Claus and old Exile Cast new materials/scenes and not only recap.

Only Claus and Lavie are worth knowing of their ultimate fates, since about half of the S1 main cast have already made their appearance. Also I hope it clears out on how and when Dio came to Earth ever since that scene of him losing to the Grandstream in Prester.

[Joachim1167]

Originally Posted by azarhal

Another Exile or Exile like facility. The "arms" that raised out of the frozen ground look like Glacies's Exile which is different from the Turan's one or Anatoray. Which raise a lot more questions...

Spoiler for Speculation:

I'm thinking maybe THE main Guild base complete with the shipyard facilities where the Exiles were built. It would make sense that the place would be shutdown and put in mothballs once the Exile program was accomplished. Maybe those dead Guild guys in the earlier episode was all that was left. The Guild may be no longer active, just caretakers of leftover technology.

[maplehurry]

This is the reason why I simply can't empathize with the rebels or condemn Luscinia. Up until now it seems like there is some festering boil on an otherwise blemish free Turan that the show has been covering up, so we don't really have a good idea of what is at stake and can't make an informed opinion.

It's all good and dandy that you are patient enough to give Luscinia the benefit of the doubt, now if only he's also as nice as you are and not so arrogant with himself that he gets to decide the fate of so many people, giving off the impression that he's no better than the Exiled who kicked out the Natives...

I am sure the show's gonna give him an excuse or perspective for doing what he did, I hope it's one that's better than the one from Gundam Age.

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

It's all good and dandy that you are patient enough to give Luscinia the benefit of the doubt, now if only he's also as nice as you are and not so arrogant with himself that he gets to decide the fate of so many people, giving off the impression that he's no better than the Exiled who kicked out the Natives...

I am sure the show's gonna give him an excuse or perspective for doing what he did, I hope it's one that's better than the one from Gundam Age.

I thought that excuse was thoroughly expressed during the flashback to the Grand Race. Despite the elder Augusta's attempt at world peace, people still carried hatred in their hearts, and strove to "avenge" that hatred no matter the cost.

If you listen to the anti-Luscinia Alliance's talk during the meeting, a lot of them seem obsessed with avenging their fallen comrades or simple bloody vengeance. That kind of talk was the same exact reasoning the terrorists gave during the assassination, right in earshot of Luscinia.

That same reasoning is most likely why Luscinia brought it upon himself to unite the world through the only means of communication (violence) he believes others would truly understand. He probably believes that if he doesn't do it, people will continue to repeat the same very human mistakes over and over again; and nothing shown in this or the past episodes aside from Fam's ideal dream of the Grand Race has done anything to disprove his highly cynical assessment.

As for what Luscinia awoken up north, all I know is that it has to be something significantly more powerful then an Exile. Perhaps the original Exile construction facility or master control unit, like the Ark from Halo.

[maplehurry]

I thought that excuse was thoroughly expressed during the flashback to the Grand Race.

He probably believes that if he doesn't do it, people will continue to repeat the same very human mistakes over and over again; and nothing shown in this or the past episodes aside from Fam's ideal dream of the Grand Race has done anything to disprove his highly cynical assessment.

Well, since liliana decided to help out, I am expecting something more concrete and convincing. Since this whole thing costs so much lives, I am expecting to see this plan to be more than just some wild gamble or experiment. So far I am not yet convinced.

/finger-crossed to see them elaborate on their plans.

[DangerMouse]

Originally Posted by LystAP

I thought that excuse was thoroughly expressed during the flashback to the Grand Race. Despite the elder Augusta's attempt at world peace, people still carried hatred in their hearts, and strove to "avenge" that hatred no matter the cost.

If you listen to the anti-Luscinia Alliance's talk during the meeting, a lot of them seem obsessed with avenging their fallen comrades or simple bloody vengeance. That kind of talk was the same exact reasoning the terrorists gave during the assassination, right in earshot of Luscinia.

That same reasoning is most likely why Luscinia brought it upon himself to unite the world through the only means of communication (violence) he believes others would truly understand. He probably believes that if he doesn't do it, people will continue to repeat the same very human mistakes over and over again; and nothing shown in this or the past episodes aside from Fam's ideal dream of the Grand Race has done anything to disprove his highly cynical assessment.

Yeah.

Originally Posted by Kanon

That's my biggest problem with Fam. She has received little to no character development since the beginning of the series. Despite everything that happened, she is still exactly the same naive and idealistic kid she was in the first episode. Not that it's inherently a bad thing but... she could use some growing up.

I was referring to her meeting with Sara and the dinner scene here. I believe her outburst during the assembly was justified and that she made a good point, even if her point of view is a bit naive as always.

Yeah, personally I don't think it's bad that she's remained true to her core and I still find her quite endearing due to her idealistic views and willingness to get out there and help people, but I'll admit I do think we were expecting her to have to face at least a small growth arc so it feels a bit absent that it hasn't happened yet since they didn't really do anything to make it feel like she wouldn't undergo one either as I remember we had discussions at various points of "this could be that moment" so I think part of it is that we were expecting her to get a few eps of change so this is the one thing I can understand a feeling that they've under-delivered a bit on since I think almost everything else from most of the other characters on both sides to the story and massive action have been handled very well and delivered and gotten a good amount of attention and given how much Millia has grown I can see how it could be rather surprising that so far they haven't done the same for Fam.

Yeah, didn't have a problem with her point at the meeting at all.

Originally Posted by Joachim1167

For me, (though not title characters) young Anakin/Jar Jar Binks in Phantom Menace and Shinji Ikari in Neon Genesis Evangelion are two I can think of right offhand. Thinking about these examples, I can be quite forgiving of Fam.

That's one of the qualities that kind of endears me to her. I guess I'm just different from most folks. Drop Fam and Gisey into a blackhole and out pops a Konata Izumi in another universe.

Yeah, heh.

Agreed, I haven't been bothered much by it and have found her kind of endearing as well.

Originally Posted by Joachim1167

Spoiler for Speculation:

I'm thinking maybe THE main Guild base complete with the shipyard facilities where the Exiles were built. It would make sense that the place would be shutdown and put in mothballs once the Exile program was accomplished. Maybe those dead Guild guys in the earlier episode was all that was left. The Guild may be no longer active, just caretakers of leftover technology.

Spoiler for Hourglass manga:

I'm quite curious about what has happened to the Guild since the Hourglass manga shows the real Guild on Earth seemingly active only 2 years ago since they were going after Alvis and expecting the returnees from our Prester like Claus/Anatoray to have been guided back by their Guild and submit like always, however something must have happened as hinted at by those Guild bodies since Luscinia, as at least a former Guilder, is using a lot of their stuff and they haven't yet made their full presence known or are letting him do it.