2008-03-12, 09:46 | Link #21 | |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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Like I said, it would be an experiment. Unlicensed shows have other products people could be buying, it's not just about products from the R1 region, but eh... It's not a moral excuse, it's an attempt to help the industry come up with more profit. As Tofu said, thinking about hurting the industry with fansubbing becomes an afterthought because if you aren't going to, someone else will. Actually, I'm glad TheFluff and the rest agree on the impact fansub ads could have. Informing the people about the newest products isn't a moral excuse, I do that all the time on my blog and it doesn't get in the way of the little content it has. The groups already doing this are taking a responsible approach to their hobby, that's all I have to say. Without fansubbing, anime wouldn't be much of a hobby to English-speaking communities. |
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2008-03-12, 10:20 | Link #22 | |||
Excessively jovial fellow
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ISDB-T
Age: 37
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Yeah, doing something patently illegal that the companies you claim to be a fan of desperately would want you to stop doing sure is responsible behavior! I really like your reasoning there, brosef.
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2008-03-12, 10:37 | Link #23 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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2008-03-12, 11:37 | Link #24 |
eyewitness
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Fluff, between "follow blindly the rules other people have made" and "do whatever benefits you" is a wide gap where you can (and should) locate your personal ethics. Everybody who watches fansubs and buys DVDs like Toua, me, you(?) does that.
But I want to stress that despite being an anime fan I neither love the industry, nor do I have casual sex with it.
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2008-03-12, 21:57 | Link #25 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
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If my memory serves me, the Uta-kata ep 7 fansub had a note at the end mentioning that a nice series-related figure was on sale/pre-order. I don't see how it is hollow to mention that some interesting goods for the series exist. If someone else is inspired to buy the goods, then it may have a good effect in the long run. Quick background: The main character wears a different costume every episode and the costume for that episode was designed by a figure designer. They had decided to do a limited release of a figure wearing that costume. Side note: Part of the reason Konjiki no Gash Bell got canceled was the character goods were selling like crap in Japan. If 1000 of the people who watched the fansub ended up buying some goods, it might have helped. (Doubt it, but I don't know how bad was bad.) Quote:
Also, there is always someone out there watching who wants goods related to the show. What is wrong with notifying the people watching the show, who are arguably fans, that these goods exist on the website or in a note? It might be arguable that mentioning R1 releases is moral high ground, but it isn't like people watching fansubs understand Japanese and can find the really fun japanese goods that get released. I decided to mention the R1 release info for Haruhi on the BT page to keep with the whole viral spirit of the show. (That and I was sick of people going "I can't find Haruhi on your BT page".) |
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2008-03-12, 22:39 | Link #26 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
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Second, it probably isn't done since many commercials shown durring the airing of these episodes are probably regional, and may not relate in any way or form with the anime. Additionally subgroups may have a harder time providing subtitles depending on where that episode was recorded (nevermind the chance that someone having such region-specific content may make them easier to pinpoint and charge). But something tells me it is just a throwback to the old VHS subbing days where commercials were never a part of the process. As for if it should be done now a days, I'm tempted to think against it, if only because some commercial might catch on world wide (nice boat), and make the fansubbing group more known outside the community. But that's probably crazy talk. |
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2008-03-13, 06:27 | Link #27 | |
Senior Member
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-Tofu |
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2008-03-13, 06:48 | Link #28 |
渡辺曜のお兄さん
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
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Right now I'd actually want to know how much was being spent by people outside of Japan, importing the R2 DVDs and associated merchandise which was only brought to said foreigner's attention by fansubs in the first place.
Is it really doing a disservice for anime and fans if a URL or mention of merchandising is placed in a fansub? |
2008-03-13, 08:21 | Link #29 |
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2006
Age: 38
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You really can't get those numbers, since non-disc anime-related goods are covered by smaller services like HLJ, Paletweb, Hobby Search, Benippon, J-list, Himeya, and their sales numbers are most likely added to overall Japanese sales figures. Then you have R2 DVDs, music and manga that are covered by Japan-based outlets like Amazon JP, HMV, CDJapan, bk1...
I think the sheer number of these retailers and other proxy shopping services shows that importing original Japanese goods is profitable business. I know some bloggers that are very vocal about buying figurines and stuff, but are strictly against buying DVDs and other media, so the whole fansub ad thing wouldn't be just about DVDs and stuff you can simply download. In my opinion, the thought of owning an imported figure or other types of fan goods doesn't cross most people's minds, so naturally they don't look for them. |
2008-03-13, 09:11 | Link #30 | |
Hi
Fansubber
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I prefer buying DVDs than figurines... Kara no Kyoukai DVDs are expensive though... Limited edition 7500 JPY per volume (total 3 volume - and later 8)
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2008-03-14, 01:39 | Link #33 |
AQS-Anime
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I'll answer this question actually.
Basically, I do try to push people to go buy the US DVD releases of series that we've worked on or that my websites are related to, and I do the same with the Negima manga for example. That's why we pull the chapters for an upcoming volume a few weeks before US release and I post the Amazon link so people can just click and order. And when series get licensed, I pull our torrent and bot releases off, and post the Amazon link when a release date is announced so people know of an easy link to go buy it. If you go to my group's main site and look under Support, you'll see this. Same goes for my Negima site. The Amazon Links are a great way to promote DVD and manga releases of series. Granted, there is some benefit in this for those of you who know what they do, but at the same time, it does help promote sales of the legitimate releases. Since I've met some people in the industry, especially when a company has licensed a series that I really enjoyed working on, I do want to help them out so that it hopefully sells well, so that way they can pick up more good stuff for the US market. |
2008-03-14, 04:06 | Link #34 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
Author
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I've run across a number of fansub sites that not only take down their subs when the R1 release appears but replace it with information on where to buy the product.
It doesn't really change the situation, but then I don't really see the producers responding to the market vacuum the subs fill yet either.
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2008-03-14, 20:56 | Link #35 | |
Love Yourself
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Northeast USA
Age: 38
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In my 1-2 years as a hardcore raw provider I only ever found one commercial, and it was its own file. The only groups capable of getting commercials in are those with their own dedicated raw cappers, or those who want to seek out commercials and throw them in on their own. On this topic, I don't see what the issue is. If a group lets you know the series is licensed then they're alterting you to the fact that you'll be able to buy it. You can look up the licensing information yourself and find the company's advertising from there, it isn't a difficult procedure.
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2008-03-14, 21:27 | Link #36 | |
Oblivious
Fansubber
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Last edited by Skyward; 2008-03-14 at 21:30. Reason: clarification |
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2008-03-14, 23:40 | Link #37 | |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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1. The opening/ending single 2. The DVD release for the show itself 3. other music published by the sponser like "lantis group", etc... 4. other shows put out by the DVD house. shows that air in prime time and the morning, sure, they have normal ads. But the shows that air after 1 AM or so have ads that almost exclusively for the companies that produced the show.
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2008-03-14, 23:58 | Link #38 |
OK.
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Fields of High Attus
Age: 34
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Even for stuff in the morning, actually. At least I remember Eureka 7 had commercials directly tied into the anime - most of the time it was CMs for the OP/ED, the game or some manga, although I think they also had ads for PSP which would be relevant to the interests of watchers. And that aired at 7am or something on a Sunday IIRC.
I haven't watched fansubs for quite some time but I have absolutely no problem with people putting a subtle tip about certain media or merchandise coming out on their webpages and video releases. People do it on forums all the time in the same line that they talk about how they downloaded the latest anime... even if the effect may be questionable I'm still not convinced it has much harm to anybody as long as it's kept subtle. I would of course feel a bit put-off by large flashy "If you don't buy anything you're not a fan! GTFO my lawn, no animu for yuo!" type of moralistic message, but otherwise... But I'm not the target of fansub groups anymore so well, it's entirely up to them, and for anyone who really wants to being warned that it "pleases no one" and is a "moral excuse" won't stop them... hopefully.
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2008-03-15, 01:14 | Link #39 | |
Oblivious
Fansubber
Join Date: Jul 2007
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2008-03-15, 01:14 | Link #40 |
Translator, Producer
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Age: 44
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Hmm, actually that's an interesting legal question:
Say I'm a company in the business of making Naruto merchandise (legit)... Could I pay for DB, say, to insert an advertisement into their fansubs? Would that actually be illegal for the company paying for the advertising? After all, it's not them distributing the show illegally, it seems like it should be legal for people to advertise anywhere they see fit, even if the medium you advertise in can't be legally sold. (I.e. if I buy 6 months of magazine ads and issue 3 ends up being child porn, I'm not liable for anything just because I happened to advertise in the publication). Not that fansub groups should take such money, but I'm simply wondering if it's even legal.
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