(L) Sakamichi no Apollon (Kids on the Slope)

[gianna]

Originally Posted by duckroll

Well, if you read my edit, SeijiSensei brought up a point which contradicts that suggestion. It seems that a few days passed instead. Which means that more time passed -before- the confession. Ep3 is really the trickiest one here, where I feel they really failed to properly establish a good sense of time flow. Ep4 does start in November, but that means that the end of Ep3 was around that time too. Argh!! :/

I wish I had seen your comment before spending the time to type out a time frame myself!

Ours are very similar -- I'm thinking it was closer to a full month between the beach and the next event
And given he decided around the beginning of September but didn't perform until a month before Christmas it was indeed nearly two months of practicing

When I went back to episode three I was surprised to see it was already November

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Hmm... yup, Yurika and Junichi go together like a moth to a flame.

heh I like what you did there

[hikarihikari]

The story and pace was the best so far, which was really nice.
The session was great as usual, however, I smell something bad name "running low on budget". You can tell the session anime was not as delicate and detailed as before.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Hmm... yup, Yurika and Junichi go together like a moth to a flame.

mmm, I don't know, I didn't get the vibes from Junichi of being a womanizer, if that's what you meant. Surely if he were I don't know how they could continue with the jam sessions.

Originally Posted by Ungrateful

aha i really think everyones gonna be left forever alone at the end of the series.

I got the same feeling, sort of. It depends which role the romance will have. I haven't got it yet. I mean, the story revolves all around Kaoru's growing-up, so in his ripening the romance is relevant in any case, positive or negative. But if they really decide to bend toward a romance drama, well, having all the three friends being left alone it would be a waste of efforts. If they decide to bend even more toward drama, well I wouldn't consider that path

[Bern-san]

It may be a silly question but... does Ritsuko like Sentaro?
When watching the episodes I haven't got that feeling, I was under the impression she thinks of him as a dear friend and that Kaoru misinterpreted their relationship
But I can approve Ritsuko x Sentaro pairing (although I'll wait if Kaoru grows more on me in the future)

[Arya]

Originally Posted by Bern-san

It may be a silly question but... does Ritsuko like Sentaro?
When watching the episodes I haven't got that feeling, I was under the impression she thinks of him as a dear friend and that Kaoru misinterpreted their relationship
But I can approve Ritsuko x Sentaro pairing (although I'll wait if Kaoru grows more on me in the future)

Waiting for a more accurate answer, for what I got by her cryptic character, she is deeply in love with Sentarou, and for years. The third episode showed that. The biggest clue is

Spoiler for ep. 3:

Ritsuko going away in tears, unable to bear Sentarou and Yurika first date. And if you re-watched the episode you would note the onigiri she had in her hands, the same type Sentarou was eating on the roof earlier.
And secondly when she returned the handkerchief to Sentarou well knowing that it was Yurika's handkerchief. That showed me how devoted she is to him.

My question is why Sentarou doesn't know about her feeling. Ok, he looks not so sensible to love matters, but I don't think that he really is, but I hope he just seems.

Spoiler for speculation:

My idea is that he's protecting Ritsuko from himself, I mean, being an half american and having all that really bad memories related to her mother and his past in general. So he is willingly ignoring her. To avoiding her to be hurt in the future. But, it is a mere speculation, probably I'm just overthinking and he is just dense.

[ID555]

Originally Posted by Arya

Waiting for a more accurate answer, for what I got by her cryptic character, she is deeply in love with Sentarou, and for years. The third episode showed that. The biggest clue is

Spoiler for ep. 3:

Ritsuko going away in tears, unable to bear Sentarou and Yurika first date. And if you re-watched the episode you would note the onigiri she had in her hands, the same type Sentarou was eating on the roof earlier.
And secondly when she returned the handkerchief to Sentarou well knowing that it was Yurika's handkerchief. That showed me how devoted she is to him.

My question is why Sentarou doesn't know about her feeling. Ok, he looks not so sensible to love matters, but I don't think that he really is, but I hope he just seems.

Spoiler for speculation:

My idea is that he's protecting Ritsuko from himself, I mean, being an half american and having all that really bad memories related to her mother and his past in general. So he is willingly ignoring her. To avoiding her to be hurt in the future. But, it is a mere speculation, probably I'm just overthinking and he is just dense.

I think he's just dense/ Ritsuko's not his type. Kaoru had to point out to him that he has a crush on Yurika.

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by Arya

mmm, I don't know, I didn't get the vibes from Junichi of being a womanizer, if that's what you meant. Surely if he were I don't know how they could continue with the jam sessions.

I meant that, despite her facade of sophisticated elan, Yurika strikes me as a woman who wants what most women want: her very own knight in shining armour. Given her elegance and natural intelligence, I can easily imagine most guys believing she's out of their league. Jinichi is likely the first man she has met who is her intellectual and emotional equal, hence her instant attraction to him.

[gianna]

Originally Posted by ID555

I think he's just dense/ Ritsuko's not his type. Kaoru had to point out to him that he has a crush on Yurika.

Just a comment on what we've seen so far

Spoiler:

And she was in a place where she was closests to him and happy (to a point)
She didn't have to act on her feelings or maybe up until that time she didn't realize how she felt
Enter Yurika to threaten their relationship whatever it may be

Then in a mere moment he completely falls for Yurika and Ri realizes that he's never seen her in that way
You can see she became a bit nervous when Yurika arrives annd is relieved when Yurika says that she was invited by Kaoru

That upset of her relationship with him forced her feelings out

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

I meant that, despite her facade of sophisticated elan, Yurika strikes me as a woman who wants what most women want: her very own knight in shining armour. Given her elegance and natural intelligence, I can easily imagine most guys believing she's out of their league. Jinichi is likely the first man she has met who is her intellectual and emotional equal, hence her instant attraction to him.

The guy kind of exudes coolness (also due to Suwabe)
You can be lead to think that he's a bit of a ladies man -- he's seemingly a mature confident type Tokyo college student who works in a bar and plays jazz and they all love him in that sense
That's a dreamy set up right there lol

[SeijiSensei]

Ritsuko is a classic "osananajimi" ("childhood friend") character. It's often the case that stories about these pairings portray one member as deeply in love with the other, but that love is unrequited. One reason why I worried that Sakamichi no Apollon might be headed down a trite "slope" was the inclusion of the Sentaro and Ritsuko pairing. As gianna says, I don't think Sentaro ever saw Ritsuko in "that way," and the encounter between him and Yurika on the beach just drives that point home. Sometimes these stories end up with the Sentaro character discovering that he or she was truly in love with the childhood friend all along. I don't think we can conclude anything about how things will turn out for the Sentaro and Ritsuko pairing based on what we've seen so far. If Yurika turns to Jun, perhaps Sentaro will discover he has a deep yearning for Ritsuko. Or he may always consider her as the girl who was with him during the life portrayed in the photo album but never a romantic passion.

The childhood-friend meme seems much more common in anime than in Western literature. Any speculations on why that might be the case?

[TinyRedLeaf]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

The childhood-friend meme seems much more common in anime than in Western literature. Any speculations on why that might be the case?

It's a common TV trope in most of the Japanese, Taiwanese and Hong Kong dramas I've watched over the years. In other words, the meme is not just limited to Japan or to anime. I don't know how it started, but the fans of such shows have long since come to expect such pairings and don't think very deeply about why that is so, even though such relationships rarely exist in urban East Asia today. Myths, once established, rarely go away, after all.

If I had to hazard a few guesses, I'd say it's because:

1) It's a convenient way to set up a romantic relationship that is "destined" to happen. It's supposedly more romantic that way. (It works for me; I'm a sucker for the idea, actually.)

2) It reflects the conservatism of Confucianist culture, in that good guys and girls are not supposed to actively pursue romantic interests, but are meant to stick with people their parents and relatives approve of. (Childhood friends usually fit that requirement.)

3) Extrapolating from point (1), it's also a handy way to develop the plot. The hero would sometimes leave town to make his fortune in distant places, but promise to return home to his "destined" beloved. The heroine would stay in town and faithfully await his return. It's all very romantic, you see.

[SeijiSensei]

I wondered if (2) might be the case. The convenience arguments in (1) and (3) would apply to almost any romantic story in any culture.

Childhood friends are also likely to occupy a similar position in the class structure. Western romances often include a cross-class relationship between a (usually male) person of higher status and a (usually female) person of lower status. In these stories you have the "love conquers all" romantic plot with the woman ultimately whisked into the man's upper-class life and living happily ever after. Cinderella is a good exemplar of this type of story.

[DoctorG]

There are about 20 other things I should be doing instead of posting in this forum, but sometimes it's just too much - "it" being episode 4 of Sakamichi no Appollon. This series is getting better and better, and the contrast between Kaoru's stiff and miserable classical music in his aunt's house and Kaoru throwing himself into the jazz gig in this episode made the heart leap.

There's a kind of unpredictability about this anime that's very refreshing - the portrayal of Kaoru taking advantage of his new-found confidence, and then going too far with Ritsuko in this episode was just right, and while it was clear that Sentaro would have some kind of "tragic" backstory, it wasn't what might have been expected. And the scene with the drunk in the jazz club got a bit "edgy" - I didn't think they would go there.

Sorry, I'm fanboying now, but - what a good anime!

[Arya]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

The childhood-friend meme seems much more common in anime than in Western literature. Any speculations on why that might be the case?

I have no basis to state what I'm gonna say, but my perception is that the two different concepts of love reflect the more mite and meditative nature of the eastern culture in comparison to a more, I'd say, aggressive, or fighting nature of the western one. Starting from religions. Crusades or inquisition are examples of that kind of nature.
So it reflects the attitude in the western culture to depict a romance story more as a fighting and conquering route than a "safer" fated route.
Another way to see that is saying how eastern culture seems to focus more on the "falling in love" part of the whole, instead western culture focuses more on the "conquest" part of it. The man has to wins the woman's love and to fights the obstacles fate puts along the road.
Sort of

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

1) It's a convenient way to set up a romantic relationship that is "destined" to happen. It's supposedly more romantic that way. (It works for me; I'm a sucker for the idea, actually.)

Speaking of tropes I always prefer every other girl over the osananajimi, because in this case the story usually happened in the past so it difficult for me, narrative-wise, to relate with the osananajimi. I usually prefer tsundere types. Well, I'm a western after all.
Ah, except this anime, but it doesn't count because it is not romance-driven and we have only one girl so what really matter are the male leads.

[Master Chibi]

I love the music and atmosphere more than I can really put into words but I already hate the love square / pentagon / whatever the hell it is we have going on on already. It reeks of Honey Clover, and that series had excellent execution and shit content.

Well whatever, it's not like it's bad, I can just already see it being grating to endure.

[DragoonKain3]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

The childhood-friend meme seems much more common in anime than in Western literature. Any speculations on why that might be the case?

I always thought it was just a cultural thing that Japanese like to pair up childhood friends, just like in some cultures you're pretty much gonna marry one of your cousins.

Because really? They have these aspects of this culture that is their identity or they hold in high regard, and the childhood friend just happens to fit into it. Stuff I can think of includes...

1) Formality - Everyone knows how polite the Japanese are. Thing is, this is a double edged sword, as more often than not it's an indication of how distant, rather than how close you are to a person. And the childhood friend is one you have connected before all these social barriers have taken form? You skip all the work of breaking these barriers


2) Stability - Japanese are not known to be two things in industry: innovators and risk takers. Now industry and romance are two very different things, but maybe both are connected because it's just the general mindset of the Japanese. And applying it to romance, you can NOT have a more 'safe choice' than the childhood friend

I like to compare this to the western, or at least what I know of the american ideal, where it's about being adventurous and explore every possibility. As such, one can see why passionate love and love at first sight is such a big thing in fiction

In other words, Western, or at least Americans, would take Veronica more often than not. Japanese on the other hand, Betty has a better chance


3) Unspoken Love - Japanese are infamous for not saying "I love you" (best you'd get is "I really really like you" most of the time, while I've heard stories of old couples who can count how many times they said "I love you" in one hand). One Japanese person's response why this is the case was....

“Well, we would not say such a thing because it is something we should feel intuitively rather than express verbally. Once we say it, it sounds rather cheap.”

The childhood friend is just an extension of this, where their close understanding of the other, is shown for them to have a near telepathic communication with each other. Thus, no need for these words


4) Family love vs Romantic love - the feeling I get from Japanese marriage is that its 'old' true purpose is not to join two people in love, but to make children with someone the family approves of. As such, arranged marriage were pretty common back then, and as someone else has said, childhood friend usually is someone the family approves of anyway that they may very well be an arranged marriage in all but name

It just so happens that childhood friend didn't go the way of arranged marriages BECAUSE they can also go the way of romantic love as well. So its a best of both worlds kinda thing


5) Values - I don't know where I read it from but from what I remember, the Japanese generally values the traits "always be there for you", "accepting for who you are", and "does not hesitate to help" in terms of looking values for a prospective spouse.

Might be because of the Japanese long held the virtues of Bushido for a very long time (which the above translates to Loyalty, Respect, and Benevolence). Or the Yamato Nadeshiko archetype might have influenced it, or the above traits are a result of the stereotypical view of the 'good' father typically using EVERYTHING he has earned for the sake of his family. Maybe its a combination of all of the above, I dunno.

But regardless, if there's three things that I have seen ALL childhood friend characters possess, it would be the above traits because one wouldn't have been friends for that long if any of the above are missing




Anyways, that's just a layman's speculation on the matter. Lots of generalizing and stereotyping, so I hope the Japanese or whoever else reads this don't get offended

[Anh_Minh]

So... Now we need a girl for Jun to fall in love with, but who will love Kaoru?

[duckroll]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

So... Now we need a girl for Jun to fall in love with, but who will love Kaoru?

Jun x Kaoru. OTP.

[Lilith]

I LOVE this! Ah, it's a been a such a long time.

I enjoyed the pacing and the BGM but mostly I enjoyed the characters and their interactions. In my own twisted mind, I like to think of them as xxxHolic gang in an alternative dimension.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Finally found the time to watch the latest installment. Couple things stuck out to me. One is that while we haven't seen much of Kaoru's life at home, what we have seen of his Aunt makes it look like a pretty stifling atmosphere. Looks like we've got a regular Mrs. Pressure on our hands there. Sentaro I was surprised to learn didn't actually have sex with his sempai, but the explanation actually makes perfect sense and I can see why she'd ask him to model for her since he's quite the rare giant of a physical specimen. Speaking of him he doesn't exactly have it easy either since this episode confirms what I've long suspected from his hair color, religion, and large build, that's he's mixed race and therefore a shunned "mistake" in his household. The part where he went to grasp his fathers hand for comfort and he jerked it away was one of the most powerful and telling scenes of the series so far. That's Watanabe and his cinematography for you.

The highlight of this show in the past couple weeks though has been seeing Kaoru try to pursue his relationship with Ritsuko and the little rivalry he has going on witrh Sentaro in trying to beat him to securing a girlfriend. Last week it looked like he was light years behind, but the whole realization about the modeling makes a huge difference and now I'd say that Kaoru is actually ahead since he's managed to convey his feelings and he and Ritsuko have been engaging in meaningful conversations this week. Still I can see the potential for this still friendly rivalry turning sour in a hurry and last weeks little tiff on the rooftop foreshadows where things could go from here and one of the two or even both girls could end up being hurt in the process, but more likely Ritsuko since she's shown to be very sensitive.

Also liked the climactic scene in the bar where they kicked it up a notch right in the middle of the song. A shame that one guy had to be a dick though and ruin the moment for Sentaro, but he could very well have done more lasting damage than that since it forced Jun to save the show and now Yurika seems to have eyes for him. Understandable though since Jun comes off as a really mature and charming guy. Romantic stuff in this show is getting complicated, but not convoluted, which is also quite nice to see.

Overall I like how they've captured all the uncertainty that goes along with being at that age though, and it's in a way that doesn't feel unnecessarily melodramatic as well which is a nice touch. There's so many elements going into this show now like gender gaps, friendships, romance, rivalries, finding a way to express oneself that it's a shame it only has 11 episodes to explore it all. Though given how things are progressing and how much it's managed to cover so far in only 4 episodes it might honestly not be a problem and I can see Kids on The Slope as being a rare recent example of a noitaminA show using it's time well.

Also of note is that Kanno is starting to pick it up in recent episodes. I especially liked the little refrain in the streets when Kaoru and Ritsuko met up while shopping for Sentaro's gift, it kind of reminded me a bit of the music in the old Peanuts cartoons.

edit: Have I mentioned how much I hate my phones auto-correct choices? Cause I do. Thank you mysterious stranger for pointing that one out to me.

[ID555]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

So... Now we need a girl for Jun to fall in love with, but who will love Kaoru?

Let's see.... at the moment there's Ritsuko's dad, or Kaoru's cousin.