Higurashi Rei - (afterthoughts on C71 fan disk)

[GyroidFanatic]

I actually ended skimming over that part because it was too confusing. I got the general idea though.

[kingsky123]

Words cannot describe how much i appreciate you translators !! (but i shall try)

ORZ! THANK YOU


PS: i read one fanfiction article about rena being the batman... it seems like Rei is pushing it close =/

[Eryops]

I thought that Saikoroshi-hen works really well as an epilogue. Also, it really helps explain the relationship between Rika & Bernkastel. Thanks for translating all of it theacefrehley.

Spoiler for Saikoroshi-hen:

I think it demonstrates that when Rika memories move to another world, they replace the resident Rika's memories, effectively replacing the local Rika with Frederika. That doesn't explain how Rika manages to act like Bernkastel (e.g. warning Akasaka in Minagoroshi-hen) before her arrival in a world. I must admit I don't really understand that.

It also explains how Bernkastel effectively diverges from Rika after Saikoroshi-hen. I was wondering whether the witch in Umineko was created after Rika's death from natural causes in the world of Matsuribayashi-hen, but the fact that she diverged at that point also explains why she appears as being approximately the same age as Rika.

I too think that the world was real. After all we see Bernkastel setting it up in the 52nd piece by saving Miyoko's parents and also mentioning some of the other features of Saikoroshi-hen's world. Plus, Rika is convinced that the world was real. And Hanyuu probably told Rika that it was a dream because she didn't want Rika to feel guilt for murdering her mother.

And I think that Rika probably does return to the original world. After all, Hanyuu tells Rika that this passage to the perfect world shouldn't have happened and may have been due to some other god, so if this transfer happened differently to all the previous ones, then perhaps it was also possible for Rika to go back to a previous world. And perhaps Hanyuu can switch from a corporeal to a non-corporeal body. After all she appears corporeally to Ichirou Maebara and doesn't show up in a physical body later on. Then again perhaps Rika ended up in a separate but identical world, but that would be for all intents and purposes the same. After all, even the worlds of Watanagashi-hen and Miotsukushi-hen are different (since Rika is tortured to death by Shion in the former and kills herself in the latter).

By the way, since people plan to turn this into a patch, I thought it might be helpful to look out for grammar or syntax errors in the translation. I've made a list of the ones I spotted while reading it:

Spoiler:

Chapter 1
the cicadas/semi gets more and moe
to poke me bac
This is not how you apology
I wonder if the dice is showing
its thousand years curse.
I can explain only through the results of dices.
Then, get the textbooks youl'll bring tomorrow reay
appears when I'm all alone, .
... Not even a hundred years Witch can escape from a high altitude.
...... After all, in this world, even the sun sinking into the west could happen.
" Do gimme such absurd!
It's of no use to be in derangement.
With my whole body is exhaust
in the end, I must be payiugn
this is all my responsabilty

Chapter 2
... it seemed everyone hated
...... But, not results at all
The morals of the humans denies the parricide.
Inside there, murders are nothing different of
At leats you can search for hints and keep the morale
she was not able toslip out.
I was tolerant enough to just chose to surrender


Chapter 3
I've been getting irritated even with that shrilling voice
It's the Furude Shrine's most valuable asset of the ,

Chapter 4
ordered by my mother would be very annoying

Chapter 5
let's keep on figthing persistentlyfor
" ...... To soak in rejoice saving
I'm wondering if Rika wouldn't accept
Houjou Satoko too doesn't have the sin of parricide.
That fight will perdure
I wasted my own life feigning to shake dices
And since Rika-chan also believed she'd come back, both hands probably reachd
...... I didn't went back.
Which of those 2 world is happy?
look for a cheap supermarket and economize some coins!"
I, ... lived a hundred years, a wicth
I halfway walked in on the world of the gods but, becauseof

[theacefrehley]

Dude,
Really
I think you guys think too much over things
Hanyuu says in the end she created the dream with all the words and reasons
Why doubt she would be lying?


As for Rika behaving like bernkastel before her arrival,
I think this world doesn't work for comparisons because everything is upside down from the beginning
Maybe the stuff with Akasaka is one of those set facts (like Satoko's parents death), but that became set over the loops, whatever

[kingsky123]

i think it was really all planned by hanyuu when rika got into the accident, i think hanyuu felt that rika was too complacent with her life, and that she wasnt behaving normally.

I believe that hanyuu already planned something like that for her BEFORE she got into the accident so that she is able to cope once hanyuu returns to godland.

[Sterling01]

Chapter 1 is done... only 4 more chapters to edit.

[Eryops]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

Dude,
Really
I think you guys think too much over things
Hanyuu says in the end she created the dream with all the words and reasons
Why doubt she would be lying?

Spoiler:

Because Hanyuu has a good motive to lie: to assuage Rika's guilt over her act of matricide. That combined with Rika's conviction that the world was more than a dream and the fact that Bernkastel created it indicates to me that the world was real.

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

As for Rika behaving like bernkastel before her arrival,
I think this world doesn't work for comparisons because everything is upside down from the beginning
Maybe the stuff with Akasaka is one of those set facts (like Satoko's parents death), but that became set over the loops, whatever

Rika states that she isn't Rika Furude in Tsumihoboroshi-hen, but that since she had used that name for over a hundred years she might as well be called that. This indicates that the separation of identities between the world-skipping Rika (who in Saikoroshi-hen names herself Bernkastel) and the Rikas that exist in individual worlds before Bernkastel's arrival there has existed from the beginning of Higurashi.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Eryops

Spoiler:

Because Hanyuu has a good motive to lie: to assuage Rika's guilt over her act of matricide. That combined with Rika's conviction that the world was more than a dream and the fact that Bernkastel created it indicates to me that the world was real.

Well,
Hanyuu's explanation convinced me well enough, along with the mood of the scene
It was all a dream she created to teach Rika a lesson

Beyond that is supposition

Originally Posted by Eryops

Rika states that she isn't Rika Furude in Tsumihoboroshi-hen, but that since she had used that name for over a hundred years she might as well be called that. This indicates that the separation of identities between the world-skipping Rika (who in Saikoroshi-hen names herself Bernkastel) and the Rikas that exist in individual worlds before Bernkastel's arrival there has existed from the beginning of Higurashi.

????

I think you're thinking too much

I always thought of Higurashi as a videogame with a 'save mode'/'save points' option. Things of the past keep on preserved to some extent.
Otherwise Rika'd always suffer a huge transformation from being a little girl who knows nothing to the time traveler after a sudden load of memories. If I'm not mistaken, whenever she arrives back in time, she is already 'famous' for her past 'predictions' (I think Himatsubushi shows that, and the last arcs too).

Obviously, saikoroshi doesn't need to fit into this because, after all, I think it was just an 'artificial' dream.

[momobunny]

I agree with Eryops, I don't think Saikoroshi-hen was just a dream. Hanyuu has a pretty good motive to lie and even Rika/Bernkastel wasn't convinced that Hanyuu was being honest.

[GyroidFanatic]

Spoiler:

I have to say, after reading Saikoroshi-hen, combined with what little I know about you-know-who's role in Umineko, this TIP: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=146 became a tad ironic.

[kingsky123]

?

Spoiler for 3 rikas:

I believe there are 3 rikas :

1 - furude rika, the cute little girl who has no clue what is going on

2 - frederica bernkastel at of the time; furude rika, who warps time for 100 years and has not defeated takano, has just defeated and went into rei

3- frederica benkastel; I mean since rika is a time traveller/dimension traveller, imagine rika living again after she has had a fufilling life, and then looping some. Therefore leading her to tell the tale of her fighting takano as if it was just an experience she had

[Eryops]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

????

I think you're thinking too much

I always thought of Higurashi as a videogame with a 'save mode'/'save points' option. Things of the past keep on preserved to some extent.
Otherwise Rika'd always suffer a huge transformation from being a little girl who knows nothing to the time traveler after a sudden load of memories. If I'm not mistaken, whenever she arrives back in time, she is already 'famous' for her past 'predictions' (I think Himatsubushi shows that, and the last arcs too).

Obviously, saikoroshi doesn't need to fit into this because, after all, I think it was just an 'artificial' dream.

Rika doesn't seem confused by the fact that she doesn't have the memories of Saikoroshi-hen's Rika when she arrives there, which makes it appear natural for her to not have access to the memories of the local Rika when she enters a new world. That, combined with the fact that she doesn't realize that Akasaka's wife lived in Minagoroshi-hen's world (also, when she arrives in that world she has no idea what the date is, which you;d expect her to know if she had access to the local memories) indicates to me that Dark Rika/Bernkastel's memories and personality replace those of the local Rika.

I agree that the fact that Rika acting as Bernkastel before that point (e.g. warning Akasaka in Minagoroshi-hen) is the biggest problem with this theory, however perhaps this indicates that, just as there are many worlds, there are multiple Rikas moving around and "our" Rika is replacing them rather than the original Rika. Interestingly Rika does seem to transform from a little girl into a hundred-year old witch according to this TIP: "But that child has changed ever since kindergarten."

The problem with Higurashi working as savepoints is that Rika clearly lacks memories from the world she's in from before her arrival. If it worked incrementally, then you'd expect her to know what happened in the world she arrives to. The reason Rika can adapt smoothly in every world other than Saikoroshi-hen despite lacking the local Rika's memories is that most worlds are extremely similar to ones she has already been to (though extremely unusual occurrences such as Akasaka's wife living still throw her off).

I wonder if we could send Ryukishi07 an email and have him give us an unambiguous explanation.

[Klashikari]

You should consider the "world traveling" as both a dimension AND time manipulation.
Personally, I used that view to have an idea how it happened:

Basically, I assume each time Frederica goes in a world with Hanyuu, both are actually "creating" that world, but not from scratch: from the "blueprint", the world they are from. However, as entering in that world they are not able to rewind a certain period of time. Also, the "copy" keeps its general settings though X events might give another outcome, "dice roll".
As shown before, Some events are unrelated to Rika/Frederica actions, and in rare "worlds", Keiichi didn't arrive in Hinamizawa, which means that some good time before, his father didn't visit hinamizawa or wasn't attracted by the village. The same goes how Akasaka can be convinced or not in the Himatsubushi period.

The thing is: any past actions done by Frederica becomes rock solid and transmigrated for the next worlds, whatever what Frederica does, since it is "in the past".

Actually, in all past worlds, Frederica actually "overwritten" herself over and over. Well, rather "Rika" first, but a certain number of occurance twisted her "soul" (as the amount of memories and the personality changes are notcieable) and unknown to herself, she became "Frederica", which she finally understood completely in Saikoroshi-hen (though she had already an idea of being "different" in Tsumihoroboshi and Minagoroshi).

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Eryops

Rika doesn't seem confused by the fact that she doesn't have the memories of Saikoroshi-hen's Rika when she arrives there, which makes it appear natural for her to not have access to the memories of the local Rika when she enters a new world. That, combined with the fact that she doesn't realize that Akasaka's wife lived in Minagoroshi-hen's world (also, when she arrives in that world she has no idea what the date is, which you;d expect her to know if she had access to the local memories) indicates to me that Dark Rika/Bernkastel's memories and personality replace those of the local Rika.

I agree that the fact that Rika acting as Bernkastel before that point (e.g. warning Akasaka in Minagoroshi-hen) is the biggest problem with this theory, however perhaps this indicates that, just as there are many worlds, there are multiple Rikas moving around and "our" Rika is replacing them rather than the original Rika. Interestingly Rika does seem to transform from a little girl into a hundred-year old witch according to this TIP: "But that child has changed ever since kindergarten."

The problem with Higurashi working as savepoints is that Rika clearly lacks memories from the world she's in from before her arrival. If it worked incrementally, then you'd expect her to know what happened in the world she arrives to. The reason Rika can adapt smoothly in every world other than Saikoroshi-hen despite lacking the local Rika's memories is that most worlds are extremely similar to ones she has already been to (though extremely unusual occurrences such as Akasaka's wife living still throw her off).

I wonder if we could send Ryukishi07 an email and have him give us an unambiguous explanation.

My savepoints are from multiples game branchings
It's like she she has too much savegames on her PS2 card
That's why she doesn't know what was happening before added to some random events (ex: Mion's games, Teppei coming back...)
She doesn't know if she's in a watanagashi-hen type world or in a failed-himatsubushi world or in a success-himatsubushi world or in totally failed world (keiichi doesn't move) or... too many options

Originally Posted by Klashikari

The thing is: any past actions done by Frederica becomes rock solid and transmigrated for the next worlds, whatever what Frederica does, since it is "in the past".

Yeah
That stuff of strong will becomes fate.

[kingsky123]

The stuff of strong will becomes fate, therefore leading himatsubushi hen's warning to become a reality for all worlds that rika is going through, that being said er ... doesnt that mean a 4 year old rika waited on the busstop for nobody without any explanation ??? or wha?? (in rei)

PS: does ryukishi07 speak english?

[Dreamiel]

Originally Posted by kingsky123

PS: does ryukishi07 speak english?

Nope, that was disscussed before.

[Rias]

Originally Posted by kingsky123

The stuff of strong will becomes fate, therefore leading himatsubushi hen's warning to become a reality for all worlds that rika is going through, that being said er ... doesnt that mean a 4 year old rika waited on the busstop for nobody without any explanation ??? or wha?? (in rei)

4 years old? She's at least 7 with the lower grade theory...nothing wrong with Rika-chama taking a rest in the bus station Maybe she gets to meet other people who came to tour the village...

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Rias

4 years old? She's at least 7 with the lower grade theory...nothing wrong with Rika-chama taking a rest in the bus station Maybe she gets to meet other people who came to tour the village...

If I'm not mistaken Rika's age is always shown as 1 digit (X), so she's 9 at most (while keiichi an rena are shown as XX). So, at Akasaka's time, she'd be 4, wouldn't she?

[kingsky123]

if she was 7 then during the time akasaka came to visit she would be like 1 or 2 years old... that would be impossible. if she was 9 then she is 4 years old at of the time during the bus station.

[Rias]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

If I'm not mistaken Rika's age is always shown as 1 digit (X), so she's 9 at most (while keiichi an rena are shown as XX). So, at Akasaka's time, she'd be 4, wouldn't she?

My mistake...I kept remembing the lower grade means she was around gr5-6...you are right, she should be around 3-5 for lower grade theory, 7 for higher grade theory.