AnimeSuki Forums

npcomplete · 2010-01-28, 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorrow-K

*Shrug* Attitudes? People have these things in Japan too, but overall sales from disc media (especially BD) are up this last year over there. Otaku seem to get by with the "prove your love through what you spend" attitude. I guess fans just aren't fanatical enough in the west for the same attitude to take traction...

Don't know the answer. Wish I did...

BUY SPICE AND WOLF DVDS!

Did that work?

It's true and good news there was a small rise, however, it's partly due to a shift to blu-ray (dvd anime sales dropped, BD anime sales increased), plus it's also recovering from drops the year before.

R1 news is lower but it's not that grim, and streaming doesn't have seemed to hurt (probably helped some IMO): U.S. Anime Sales Drop Only 2% in Q1 2009 vs. Q1 2008, which coincides with the large shift to box sets and box set releases by Funi btw, despite the overall DVD market dropping like 20% - 30% in that period if I recall.

In addition:

.. so keep buying those figures!

(I'm not sure, but I have a *feeling* that somehow this is not quite as looked at even by the producers/licensors unfortunately)

Wrath88 · 2010-01-28, 02:14

Lol, I kind of find it funny that the topic has shifted from 'having anime packaged with otaku culture' in the first post to discussing the piracy angle.

TBH, I started out with Naruto, and slowly spread out from there, getting into this forum with Shuffle!. Lately though, I don't really care about the 'repeated templates' factor, as far as I'm concerned, a single character can't really be wholly copied, since what's makes them who they are, as well as the story what it is, is that character's interaction with the others around it. Certainly it might make certain plot twists predictable at times, but it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the story and its events on a whole, if any at all. The only thing I might find FAIL would be if the plot isn't properly fleshed out, making me feel as though I'm reading a novel with sentences missing.

As for the buying what you watch thing, it's quite 'you like it well enough to buy'. Of course there'll be those who don't buy even after watching, but that's human nature, and enforcement is pretty much impossible considering its the Internet. Still, every person who downloads fansubs and watches them opens up other choices, like telling friends, sharing reviews, etc. Even if one person doesn't buy, he might put others who will in touch with that series. I bought Nanoha season 1 and 2 just because I kept hearing about it for a long time, and never saw the subs beforehand. Didn't regret that choice at all.

Just sharing what I think.

Joe4evr · 2010-01-28, 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by npcomplete

In addition:

.. so keep buying those figures!

Image hotlink fail.

roriconfan · 2010-01-28, 05:05

How about allowing free streams but only RAWs? Anyone interested to understand what they say will run to buy the series.
Seriously, if I were amazed by the first Helsing episode, I would really want to know what they are talking about.
Subs can come by streams again, only it will cost this time.
Anyone still interested in quality, will go and buy the DVDs.
Fansubs and rips become officially illegal, official subbing becomes important, distribution raises, sales triple... all that on paper of course.
Any abuse of this method is ilegal again.
And as I heard saying in Futurama: The internet is the free distribution of other peoples' ideas.

Crontica · 2010-01-28, 13:14

I personally think late 2009 is a failure for anime. All i see are loli and ecchi shows coming out. with only afew Shoujo / Shounen series to salvage.

Kaioshin Sama · 2010-01-28, 16:14

You know it just occured to me that next month I might be able to witness what a Type A vs Type B otaku scenario looks like as it is unfolding. February 6th we've got two popular and anticipated titles debuting in Gundam Unicorn and the Haruhi Suzumiya movie and already the pre-release hype seems to be dividing the fanbases into distinctly Type A and Type B expectations and standards. Of course there will be exceptions in both categories, but here's how I see it unfolding:

With the Type A Unicorn fans, looking around the internet in various places (including MAHQ, Animesuki, MAL, ANN) it appears that the viewership will be made up largely of the older adult male/female demographic who going by what I've seen in discussions will be judging the debut based off of the expectations of giving the "proper U.C vibe", combat choreagraphy, character introductions and development, cinematography, pacing and animation among other areas. In short people want something that will set the standard for the franchise and prove a worthwhile return to the popular core Universal Century timeline if it is to be declared a success.

With the Type B Haruhi fans, looking around the internet (including Animesuki, MAL, ANN, various popular blogs) it appears that the viewership will be made up largely of younger late teen to early adult males and that they will be judging it essentially based on how much the popular Yuki Nagato character is depicted in her vulnerable and submissive characterization. In short there really don't seem to be that many criteria for success other than giving people the fetish that they want to see applied to the popular character they want to see and having it be well animated.

Should be an interesting study.

Bri · 2010-01-28, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

You know it just occured to me that next month I might be able to witness what a Type A vs Type B otaku scenario looks like as it is unfolding. February 6th we've got two popular and anticipated titles debuting in Gundam Unicorn and the Haruhi Suzumiya movie and already the pre-release hype seems to be dividing the fanbases into distinctly Type A and Type B expectations and standards. Of course there will be exceptions in both categories, but here's how I see it unfolding:

With the Type A Unicorn fans, looking around the internet in various places (including MAHQ, Animesuki, MAL, ANN) it appears that the viewership will be made up largely of the older adult male/female demographic who going by what I've seen in discussions will be judging the debut based off of the expectations of giving the "proper U.C vibe", combat choreagraphy, character introductions and development, cinematography, pacing and animation among other areas. In short people want something that will set the standard for the franchise and prove a worthwhile return to the popular core Universal Century timeline if it is to be declared a success.

With the Type B Haruhi fans, looking around the internet (including Animesuki, MAL, ANN, various popular blogs) it appears that the viewership will be made up largely of younger late teen to early adult males and that they will be judging it essentially based on how much the popular Yuki Nagato character is depicted in her vulnerable and submissive characterization. In short there really don't seem to be that many criteria for success other than giving people the fetish that they want to see applied to the popular character they want to see and having it be well animated.

Should be an interesting study.

Shouldn't you compare Gundam type A and B fans with each other and Haruhi type A and B fans? Both anime have plenty of fans of both types. I mean Gundam has had a large type B following for it's suffering males ever since Zeta. Just look at the shipping, fujoshi following and the doujinshis.

Opposite goes for Haruhi. This show is far more than just hype and fan pandering. It's got plenty to offer in terms of character development, cinematography and animation techinique.

That said I'm more then happy with what I have seen from both projects sofar.

Archon_Wing · 2010-01-28, 16:56

The hell is with this "type A" "type B" stuff?

Sheba · 2010-01-28, 17:19

Quote:

The hell is with this "type A" "type B" stuff?

Type A: SRSBSNS

Type B: "Waaaah this character is so cute/awesome"

I see myself as between type A and B.
Combat choregraphy with robots makes me yawn; even in FMP the second raid, I prefered the scenes with the twins laying the bloody smackdown. I love my spinning kicks, teeth-wrecking uppercut, sword slashes, slashing, cutting, crushing, maiming and mexican stand-offs. Preferably with my fix of blood. And I love my characters larger than life, like in Gungrave. Imo, that show provided food for both Type A and B.

So yeah, I prefer a serving of Black Lagoon that is looming over the horizon.

Archon_Wing · 2010-01-28, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Type A: SRSBSNS

Type B: "Waaaah this character is so cute/awesome"

Ah, I remember something about it on Sankaku Complex, but naturally like everything else on the site, I didn't take it seriously.

It just seemed ridiculously loaded, with the description for Type A being much shorter, and Type B sounding more like a rant.

Sorrow-K · 2010-01-28, 17:53

@Kaioshin Sama

Haha! I see myself as firmly type A, yet I'm looking forward to the Haruhi movie infinitely more than I am to the Gundam movie for the simple reason that I have no attachment to the latter franchise... and not because of a blase fetishism which might appear. If you're going to generalize, at least make it clear before you begin.

Also, the two types shouldn't be used as anything more than a simplistic model for trying to understand fan behaviour which is much more complex. There's no problem with simplistic models, provided that the people who use them understand their limitations... and the two type model for anime fans is very limited.

Sheba · 2010-01-28, 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Ah, I remember something about it on Sankaku Complex, but naturally like everything else on the site, I didn't take it seriously.

It just seemed ridiculously loaded, with the description for Type A being much shorter, and Type B sounding more like a rant.

I do take that cardboard description with a pinch of salt too. I find it as ridiculous, discriminating and polarizing as the nauseating "Us vs Them" that is plaguing the anime community for several years now

Dextro · 2010-01-28, 18:27

Also don't forget the hate train that's coming along just next month when K-On season 2 starts... That should be fun :P

Bri · 2010-01-28, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Type A: SRSBSNS

Type B: "Waaaah this character is so cute/awesome"

Great description there

Yeah, anything from Sankaku is not to be taken too serious. However it hits home close enough to spice up the snob versus fanboy debates a little.

0utf0xZer0 · 2010-01-28, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

You know it just occured to me that next month I might be able to witness what a Type A vs Type B otaku scenario looks like as it is unfolding. February 6th we've got two popular and anticipated titles debuting in Gundam Unicorn and the Haruhi Suzumiya movie and already the pre-release hype seems to be dividing the fanbases into distinctly Type A and Type B expectations and standards. Of course there will be exceptions in both categories, but here's how I see it unfolding:

With the Type A Unicorn fans, looking around the internet in various places (including MAHQ, Animesuki, MAL, ANN) it appears that the viewership will be made up largely of the older adult male/female demographic who going by what I've seen in discussions will be judging the debut based off of the expectations of giving the "proper U.C vibe", combat choreagraphy, character introductions and development, cinematography, pacing and animation among other areas. In short people want something that will set the standard for the franchise and prove a worthwhile return to the popular core Universal Century timeline if it is to be declared a success.

With the Type B Haruhi fans, looking around the internet (including Animesuki, MAL, ANN, various popular blogs) it appears that the viewership will be made up largely of younger late teen to early adult males and that they will be judging it essentially based on how much the popular Yuki Nagato character is depicted in her vulnerable and submissive characterization. In short there really don't seem to be that many criteria for success other than giving people the fetish that they want to see applied to the popular character they want to see and having it be well animated.

Should be an interesting study.

Do bare in mind that talking about how Yuki acts in the new Haruhi movie implies having read the book on which it is based, which IIRC was fan translated a couple years back. Given Kyoto's tendency to follow the books quite closely, I wouldn't expect the movie to have much draw for these fans other than good animation and Yuki being cute. And I'd expect Unicorn to attract an older fanbase, given that a newcomer to the franchise has an absolutely massive amount of catch up to do.

Triple_R · 2010-01-28, 19:44

In fairness to Kaoishin, the Gundam Unicron movie really is the ultimate "Type A" sort of film.

From the few Gundam series that I've seen, they tend to focus primarily on characters and plot; the narrative and character development comes first and second, respectively... far ahead of anything else.

If Gundam Unicorn does very well, it would speak to the fact that there's a lot of "Type A" anime fans out there.

However, I don't think that Haruhi is firmly in the Type B category. Haruhi has its Type A fans as well (and plenty of people who fall inbetween both types). I myself find that there's pretty good character development in the Haruhi novels, and that the novel narrative itself is often good. The anime usually reflects that well.

Slice of Life · 2010-01-28, 20:09

I just googled this A type/B type stuff your talking about. One word here, there is nothing wrong with elitism as long as you can actually bring it. Anime however is a better entertainment alternative to TV and nothing more. Don't fool yourself and think any choice you can make here raises you to a level high enough to give yourself a "A-type" patch and look down on so-called "B-type" otaku. And Sankakucomplex is really the last place to visit to prove your refined tastes in entertainment. Don't create divisions to make this forum a hostile place.

tl;dr leave that to /a/, please.

EDIT: npcomplete, the diagram you posted cannot be posted often enough because it busts a few important myths. Unfortunately, I can't pos-rep you at the moment.

Triple_R · 2010-01-28, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

I just googled this A type/B type stuff your talking about. One word here, there is nothing wrong with elitism as long as you can actually bring it. Anime however is a better entertainment alternative to TV and nothing more. Don't fool yourself and think any choice you can make here raises you to a level high enough to give yourself a "A-type" patch and look down on so-called "B-type" otaku. And Sankakucomplex is really the last place to visit to prove your refined tastes in entertainment. Don't create divisions to make this forum a hostile place.

Just to be clear... this thread is the very first place I saw anybody raise the Type A/Type B fan distinction.

So I'm not sure how loaded those terms may be in general, throughout the internet as a whole.

On this thread, they simply seem to mean this...

Type A fan = Mostly concerned with characterization and the plot

Type B fan = Mostly concerned with the presence of famous character types, of clever anime insider jokes, of good individual shots within an episode, and of various modern anime conventions.

Going by this, it's just a taste distinction; two different types of fans looking for somewhat different things. There's nothing wrong with that, or anything that warrants either type of fan "looking down on" the other type.

0utf0xZer0 · 2010-01-28, 22:41

@Triple_R:
I actually know a few people I'd consider anime elitists. "Fanboy can't have taste" is basically an unwritten creed among them in my observations.

So yeah, I consider any binary choice that says fans are either into storyline OR into particular characters elitist in nature. A less elitist system would recognize that many fans don't fit neatly into either category.

kk2extreme · 2010-01-28, 22:44

we are doom in the state, anime dvds and bds are still so expensive, i find myself not buying any animes when i get to electronic stores

by browsing around the anime section, the selection is shrinking day by day. Even on tv, there are not many new anime to watch, and worst of all, they are pushed to late night after 12 am or really early in the morning (mostly kid's stuff, or at least remake it into kid's favors) and with many reruns, I find myself hard to pick up a american licensed anime products.

the same goes for manga, $10 for one book (not too many selections either), you can get that at least half price in asia.

2010-01-28, 02:14	Link #222
Wrath88 Kissing... Join Date: Dec 2005	Lol, I kind of find it funny that the topic has shifted from 'having anime packaged with otaku culture' in the first post to discussing the piracy angle. TBH, I started out with Naruto, and slowly spread out from there, getting into this forum with Shuffle!. Lately though, I don't really care about the 'repeated templates' factor, as far as I'm concerned, a single character can't really be wholly copied, since what's makes them who they are, as well as the story what it is, is that character's interaction with the others around it. Certainly it might make certain plot twists predictable at times, but it doesn't really affect my enjoyment of the story and its events on a whole, if any at all. The only thing I might find FAIL would be if the plot isn't properly fleshed out, making me feel as though I'm reading a novel with sentences missing. As for the buying what you watch thing, it's quite 'you like it well enough to buy'. Of course there'll be those who don't buy even after watching, but that's human nature, and enforcement is pretty much impossible considering its the Internet. Still, every person who downloads fansubs and watches them opens up other choices, like telling friends, sharing reviews, etc. Even if one person doesn't buy, he might put others who will in touch with that series. I bought Nanoha season 1 and 2 just because I kept hearing about it for a long time, and never saw the subs beforehand. Didn't regret that choice at all. Just sharing what I think. __________________ Okairii, Nerine-chan

2010-01-28, 13:14	Link #225
Crontica Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: My Desk	I personally think late 2009 is a failure for anime. All i see are loli and ecchi shows coming out. with only afew Shoujo / Shounen series to salvage. __________________

2010-01-28, 17:53	Link #231
Sorrow-K Somehow I found out Join Date: Feb 2006 Age: 40	@Kaioshin Sama Haha! I see myself as firmly type A, yet I'm looking forward to the Haruhi movie infinitely more than I am to the Gundam movie for the simple reason that I have no attachment to the latter franchise... and not because of a blase fetishism which might appear. If you're going to generalize, at least make it clear before you begin. Also, the two types shouldn't be used as anything more than a simplistic model for trying to understand fan behaviour which is much more complex. There's no problem with simplistic models, provided that the people who use them understand their limitations... and the two type model for anime fans is very limited. __________________ .:The Nihon Review:.:Ikoku Meiro no Croisée:.:Tamayura: Hitotose:. .:Behind The Nihon Review:.:Understanding Guilty Crown’s Failure:. .:MAL:.:Twitter:.

2010-01-28, 18:27	Link #233
Dextro He Without a Title Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The land of tempura	Also don't forget the hate train that's coming along just next month when K-On season 2 starts... That should be fun :P __________________

2010-01-28, 19:44	Link #236
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	In fairness to Kaoishin, the Gundam Unicron movie really is the ultimate "Type A" sort of film. From the few Gundam series that I've seen, they tend to focus primarily on characters and plot; the narrative and character development comes first and second, respectively... far ahead of anything else. If Gundam Unicorn does very well, it would speak to the fact that there's a lot of "Type A" anime fans out there. However, I don't think that Haruhi is firmly in the Type B category. Haruhi has its Type A fans as well (and plenty of people who fall inbetween both types). I myself find that there's pretty good character development in the Haruhi novels, and that the novel narrative itself is often good. The anime usually reflects that well. __________________

2010-01-28, 05:05	Link #224
roriconfan Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Thessaloniki - Greece	How about allowing free streams but only RAWs? Anyone interested to understand what they say will run to buy the series. Seriously, if I were amazed by the first Helsing episode, I would really want to know what they are talking about. Subs can come by streams again, only it will cost this time. Anyone still interested in quality, will go and buy the DVDs. Fansubs and rips become officially illegal, official subbing becomes important, distribution raises, sales triple... all that on paper of course. Any abuse of this method is ilegal again. And as I heard saying in Futurama: The internet is the free distribution of other peoples' ideas.

2010-01-28, 16:14	Link #226
Kaioshin Sama Banned Join Date: May 2004 Location: Neither Here nor There Age: 39	You know it just occured to me that next month I might be able to witness what a Type A vs Type B otaku scenario looks like as it is unfolding. February 6th we've got two popular and anticipated titles debuting in Gundam Unicorn and the Haruhi Suzumiya movie and already the pre-release hype seems to be dividing the fanbases into distinctly Type A and Type B expectations and standards. Of course there will be exceptions in both categories, but here's how I see it unfolding: With the Type A Unicorn fans, looking around the internet in various places (including MAHQ, Animesuki, MAL, ANN) it appears that the viewership will be made up largely of the older adult male/female demographic who going by what I've seen in discussions will be judging the debut based off of the expectations of giving the "proper U.C vibe", combat choreagraphy, character introductions and development, cinematography, pacing and animation among other areas. In short people want something that will set the standard for the franchise and prove a worthwhile return to the popular core Universal Century timeline if it is to be declared a success. With the Type B Haruhi fans, looking around the internet (including Animesuki, MAL, ANN, various popular blogs) it appears that the viewership will be made up largely of younger late teen to early adult males and that they will be judging it essentially based on how much the popular Yuki Nagato character is depicted in her vulnerable and submissive characterization. In short there really don't seem to be that many criteria for success other than giving people the fetish that they want to see applied to the popular character they want to see and having it be well animated. Should be an interesting study.

2010-01-28, 20:09	Link #237
Slice of Life eyewitness Join Date: Jan 2007	I just googled this A type/B type stuff your talking about. One word here, there is nothing wrong with elitism as long as you can actually bring it. Anime however is a better entertainment alternative to TV and nothing more. Don't fool yourself and think any choice you can make here raises you to a level high enough to give yourself a "A-type" patch and look down on so-called "B-type" otaku. And Sankakucomplex is really the last place to visit to prove your refined tastes in entertainment. Don't create divisions to make this forum a hostile place. tl;dr leave that to /a/, please. EDIT: npcomplete, the diagram you posted cannot be posted often enough because it busts a few important myths. Unfortunately, I can't pos-rep you at the moment. __________________ - Any ideas how to fill this space? Last edited by Slice of Life; 2010-01-28 at 20:26.

2010-01-28, 22:41	Link #239
0utf0xZer0 Pretentious moe scholar Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Vancouver, Canada Age: 37	@Triple_R: I actually know a few people I'd consider anime elitists. "Fanboy can't have taste" is basically an unwritten creed among them in my observations. So yeah, I consider any binary choice that says fans are either into storyline OR into particular characters elitist in nature. A less elitist system would recognize that many fans don't fit neatly into either category. __________________ Signature courtesy of Ganbaru.

2010-01-28, 22:44	Link #240
kk2extreme Your wife is hot... Join Date: May 2008 Location: At your house fixing A/C	we are doom in the state, anime dvds and bds are still so expensive, i find myself not buying any animes when i get to electronic stores by browsing around the anime section, the selection is shrinking day by day. Even on tv, there are not many new anime to watch, and worst of all, they are pushed to late night after 12 am or really early in the morning (mostly kid's stuff, or at least remake it into kid's favors) and with many reruns, I find myself hard to pick up a american licensed anime products. the same goes for manga, $10 for one book (not too many selections either), you can get that at least half price in asia.