(CR) Orange (TV series)

[Benigmatica]

Episode 7:
Looks like Hiroto Suwa is now helping Naho Takamiya for saving Kakeru Naruse from killing himself out of guilt.

On the other hand, it's nice to see Kakeru's friends celebrating his birthday even though he's gone through hardships lately. But you know what, it's better to have friends who cared a lot than having none!

[Sides]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

Kakeru ditching his mom is not the problem, and Kakeru didn't ask either Naho or Suwa for their help. Naho and Suwa are acting according to their own desires, because of what they know from the letters. Trying to blame Kakeru for all this is just misguided and clearly missing the point of that whole conversation at the end of the episode. If every parent killed themselves because their kid broke a promise or blew them off the human race would have died off a long time ago. Kakeru's mother clearly had her own problems that she needed to get help with. It's regrettable, but his mothers actions are her own. Even if Kakeru had kept his promise she still may have killed herself later. You can't watch someone 24/7, and if someone truly wants to kill them self they will find a way to do it. Hell a 13 year old boy just hung himself in his families basement over bullying. Hopefully, Kakeru's story doesn't also end in tragedy.

WTH, you have to be open minded. Your view differs from mine and it is fine, but telling me that my opinion is wrong is a bit arrogant.
I said that he is the problem, because of all his actions. If he wasn't the problem, he wouldn't have died and there won't be any letters from an alternaitve furture.

[ahelo]

Originally Posted by Sides

My main issue with Kakeru is, i just don't respect people for not keeping their word, that is all.

My main beef in why I'm criticizing your point of view is because you're putting Kakeru to a standard of an adult. He's a teenager (A TEENAGER!!!!!!!!!!!), it's honestly really unfair to get mad at him for that (and isn't that what's going on in his head in the first place that it's his fault in which he took suicide as an option?).

I agree completely and share the same sentiments though in which how interesting Kakeru's friends are handling the situation (though not perfect). The care that they're giving to Kakeru is really heartwarming.

Anyway my main point still stands, I wish people who watch the anime, honestly do try to give a bit more empathy to Kakeru (I don't know I really got attached to this series because what he's going through feels so real). Honestly, if this show aired like half a decade or more ago, when mental health/depression wasn't as much of a discussed topic as it is today, this show would be even more polarizing than it already is. (I remember watching NGE back in highschool and just shouting at Shinji for not "manning up" to his situation.)

[Arya]

Originally Posted by BakaOnna

This series has been great so far but I wish it hadn't focused the first half so much on the romance and love triangle.

Yeah, I was thinking the same, the show is about saving Kakeru and the path they are following is to save kakeru and naho relationship. But it focused a bit too much into the latter to the point that you may confuse the latter with the former. While they are close they are not the same and to me Suwa made it very apparent in this episode.

A bit more focus into Kakeru would have helped probably to have less contrasting views about him, even if I'm a bit surprised to see them. The bit about the sport bag was a detail that hides a lot behind about Kakeru relationship with his mother (I wonder if it's also causing guilt itself, as another broken promise). He had an unhealthy relationship with his mother, due to her illness, who apparently was tying him to herself more and more with irrational requests. So, despite he ditched his mother, that's not really the problem.The real problem was his mother illness and in regard of Kakeru the unhealthy relationship in which he got caught into. What I mean is that she would have killed herself sooner or later regardless.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Sides

WTH, you have to be open minded. Your view differs from mine and it is fine, but telling me that my opinion is wrong is a bit arrogant.
I said that he is the problem, because of all his actions. If he wasn't the problem, he wouldn't have died and there won't be any letters from an alternaitve furture.

The problem is that Kakeru is currently feeling guilty and now suffering from depression over something he had no real control over. And the current solution is getting him to realize that, so he can begin to heal, and start feeling better. That's the problem. The show practically spoon feed it to us this past episode. Also that's not how being open minded works. Being open minded means recognizing that other people may think, act and behave differently from you. That does not mean I can't disagree with and or can't voice said disagreement, which is what I did. You have every right to believe what you want, and I have every right to say I don't agree, and to point out why.

[MCAL]

Orange is definitely not the show you want to binge watch, unless you want the show to kill you. The hits come hard and often. And that's why in spite of its flaws, Orange is the best anime of the season.

[Kismet-chan]

This was almost a perfect episode... if it weren't for those weird faces that Suwa and Naho made on occasion that didn't fit with the rest of the show's style.

[blakstealth]

Finally started watching this. The plot is so relatable, and the characters really have good chemistry. The fact that the notes from the future don't completely chronicle's day to day life and leave vague notes, as it should, keep the show exciting.

[Stark700]

Episode 8:

Ah another episode of emotional feels.

What I liked about this episode is Kakeru's continuous growing relationship with almost everyone around him. Oh and of course, there's an awkward moment between Kakeru and Naho. Very shoujoish type of scene but I think it does give even more of a closure moment between the duo:

Spoiler:

The Saku and Azusa moments were also kinda cute.
Glad to see Kakeru's friends on the same page to save Kakeru after they discuss about the letters. He's so lucky to have friends like that.

[MCAL]

Finally, a breather episode! We've desperately need one of these, but I expect things to get depressing again pretty soon.

[zeross87]

ok, i didn't like it at all.

as again, naho is annoyingly dense to the point of stupidness but i wont even complain about that.

they all fucking got letters but no one told each other until now ? and it didn't feel like the others where trying to help at all previously. if its told they just receiveid it that fine, but if they have it since the begining that its too dumb for me....

and then naho decide ti not read the letter anymore ? whasn't it bad enough to not read them all in a bunch now she will be confident in her super intuition and inteligence to get it done without those hint at future event ? kakeru is so doomed, poor him.

i do understand not wanting to just take it to face value like they did with the relay, that was good. but not reading them like really ?

with all this i'm nearly expecting a big anticlimatic thing like kakeru who got a letter from himself before his suicide and will be like at the end "oh no i was fine with that letter, it was all pointless" :/

it really need to make more sense quickly for me

[drobertbaker]

So they gave the dead Kakeru the same presents that they gave him ten years before, only better ones?

Then they ask Granny if they can take Kakeru with them to the mountain? What, his urn of ashes? Or were they just borrowing his spirit from Granny's altar for a while?

I do like the level of (com)passion that this series is bringing out of the viewers. My own view is that we are each ultimately responsible for our own actions (especially suicide). Depressive, teenager, or whatever, dead is dead, irreversible, and accountable.

The Japanese LOVE taking responsibility, being guilty, and punishing themselves. There's enough guilt here to satisfy all of little self deprecating hearts, but only Suwa is doing something about it.

Suwa steps up, exhibits some man love, and shows Naho how it's done. It's not that hard. I still like the narrative concept of someone not being psychologically able to act even knowing that it will result in such serious consequences, but how many times does she have to kill this guy?

She kept him from his mother so that he tried suicide unsuccessfully on September 24. Then she stiffed him for the chocolates on Valentines Day and he proceeded to kill himself the day after, believing that she was sharing her sweet, sweet chocos with another man, when she could have prevented it with a single word.

She didn't get it together after the first time even WITH a letter from her future self.

She seems to prefer his death to the difficult task of saying something to prevent it.

[Sides]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

The problem is that Kakeru is currently feeling guilty and now suffering from depression over something he had no real control over. And the current solution is getting him to realize that, so he can begin to heal, and start feeling better. That's the problem. The show practically spoon feed it to us this past episode. Also that's not how being open minded works. Being open minded means recognizing that other people may think, act and behave differently from you. That does not mean I can't disagree with and or can't voice said disagreement, which is what I did. You have every right to believe what you want, and I have every right to say I don't agree, and to point out why.

Sorry mate, but didn't you said that i was and others are "misguided and clearly missing the point of that whole conversation at the end of the episode"?
That is what i am refering to that and how you should be open minded. How you interpret the conversation is fine, but how can you say that I am misguide and at the same time telling me that is not how being open minded works?

Originally Posted by ahelo

My main beef in why I'm criticizing your point of view is because you're putting Kakeru to a standard of an adult. He's a teenager (A TEENAGER!!!!!!!!!!!), it's honestly really unfair to get mad at him for that (and isn't that what's going on in his head in the first place that it's his fault in which he took suicide as an option?)...

But those are just my values, that were put in my head since I was a kid. So I think it is ok for me and other to show Kakeru no sympathy. It is like watching current films were they try justify the bad guy for being a bad guy or the good guy being the good one. Once they made a decision or wrong move, there is no turning back. (I'm just going to igrnore the teenage comment, in my books there are only children and adults, because I'm are arse ^^)


Episode 8 was ok, but i'm slowly getting the feeling that Naho isn't really in love with Kakeru, but rather being pushed by her futrue self and others in an uncomfortable position.

[Top Sergeant]

Kakeru has an excellent group of friends. Loved the letter reveal, especially when the two girls cornered Suwa.

Naho can be thick as two short planks sometimes though.

[Yamada II]

Episode 8

So Kakeru overworks himself and passes out during his match. Suwa starts to believe that it was because Kakeru joined the football club and is working extra hard. They start to question if it really is the best decision to follow the letters word by word. The letters only mention which events will effect Kakeru's emotional state and tells how to fix it. The letters don't mention what effects they might have on Kakeru's physical state or on others around him. The purpose of the letters is to give the recipient one way to make Kakeru happy. There are more ways to handle each situation than just the ones mentioned in the letters. Naho is now starting to think that following the letters would have the benefit of saving Kakeru, but it may have adverse effects in other areas like his physical health. She knows the purpose of the letters – making Kakeru happy and saving him from depression – and she can do that on her own too, is what she believes. Following the letters gives the impression that she's doing it because someone says so – that someone being herself lol – and if she tries to save Kakeru without following the letters, it would be like she's doing it out of her own volition for Kakeru and not for someone else. She's going to be doing the same thing, except she won't be taking orders from someone. She'll be handling each situation as it comes like your average person who doesn't get to know the future beforehand. She will be tackling situations based on what she feels is right. She's going to have those feelings she has for Kakeru lead her towards making the right choice to save him and not the letter. The letters gave her a head start and now she's going to move forward on her own. She knows what she has to do now, she just has to believe in herself that she's making the right choice, and she has Suwa (and later the rest of the gang) to help her too so there shouldn't be any problem. Now, is this the best decision? She already saw that ignoring the letters could result in something bad happening, like Kakeru's mom dying of all things. That will be clear during the athletics meet. Naho and friends have asked to participate in the relay with Kakeru. Even if Kakeru falls and they lose the race, it wouldn't be only his fault because they didn't even have a chance to begin with with the likes of Hagita on board lol. Everyone joining in will make the race fun and the result wouldn't matter then. There would be no pressure and Kakeru wouldn't have to work extra hard. Of course they would prefer it if they win but the result wouldn't matter much if they have fun. The decision to let Kakeru race even though the letters forbade them from doing that was made because there was a possibility that not participating in the race and then losing could have another effect on Kakeru because he was the fastest in class and could have won the race for them, another reason was that Kakeru was looking forward to the race and not letting him participate is like not letting him do something he could have enjoyed which could have pushed him farther from depression.

Suwa's own feelings are getting in his way as he didn't push Naho and Kakeru together in the nurse's office. He knows that's what is probably best for Kakeru, but deep inside he doesn't want his crush to date someone else. This is exactly what future Suwa did which he ended up regretting.

And Kakeru holding out his hand with a sad look is probably not just him wanting to hold hands with Naho. If that were the case then he should be blushing, stuttering and looking away, or he should have a smile on his face. I don't think he would be asking out Naho with that sad look on his face. He wants to say something to Naho but then feels that it's either not really necessary to tell her right now or he can't muster the courage to say it. Kakeru must be a weird guy if he is asking Naho to hold hands with that dejected look on his face.

And the rest of the gang also got letters. It wasn't that big a surprise since Suwa got one after all. Suwa's letter was surprising since it happened earlier, but the rest getting it was a very likely scenario after Suwa's was revealed. Why didn't they tell each other about their letters even though they are the best of friends? I'm not too sure. Could be that they didn't want to worry anyone about a future only they supposedly know. It could lead to excessive worrying and they could be focusing less on having fun and more on how to save Kakeru. They all probably thought that they should keep things as they are and act subtlety without being too suspicious. Naho had her worries written all over her face, Suwa gave into the girl's interrogation, the other two girls were good at putting up acts and keeping secrets, and I'm not sure what Hagita was even doing for Kakeru and Naho. Now they're all on the same page and there will be 5 minds working together to save Kakeru. It wouldn't be nice though if Kakeru finds out. Could be that he might come to believe that they're deciding his future for him and he probably won't be liking that.

The ending sequence changed with them showing the gang facing each other, all smiles, and then them having their backs towards each other with sad looks. Wonder what it could be hinting towards, if it is hinting at all.

Naho's decision to not rely on the letter anymore is interesting. Now to see if not doing what the letters said will have the same effect as obeying the letters i.e will they change the outcome of different events or not.

[Cloudedmind]

Originally Posted by Sides

Sorry mate, but didn't you said that i was and others are "misguided and clearly missing the point of that whole conversation at the end of the episode"?
That is what i am refering to that and how you should be open minded. How you interpret the conversation is fine, but how can you say that I am misguide and at the same time telling me that is not how being open minded works?

This is a forum for discussion and debate. Having someone essentially tell you they think your thinking is incorrect based on what's going on in show is par for the course. That doesn't have anything to do with one being open or closed minded. But enough with this game of semantics.


Why isn't this show about Azu!?

[Yamada II]

Originally Posted by Cloudedmind

Why isn't this show about Azu!?

I totally thought that Hagita was going to confess to Azu. Turned out he was just telling her about that letter. I was disappointed. They would make a pretty good pair too. Azu needs more love.

[IceHism]

I can't with Naho. It's so hard to get through an episode with her being so shy and actively refusing to work towards something she wants.

[Arya]

I've sadly started to have the same problems with her.

[drobertbaker]

I think it's OK to have a protagonist who doesn't do the right thing. People make bad decisions and young people often make bad decisions. Naho definitely does have an almost crippling character flaw in her shyness which did and may again result in a boy's death.

"I have an prescient source on how to save the boy's life, but I think I'll ignore it" is just another in an undeniable string of justifications which are really just excuses to keep from doing anything beyond her comfort zone, even at such an unconscionable cost.