Romance in Macross

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by crisis

Taken from the episode 13 thread:

Spoiler:

I respectfully disagree. Even if I'm waving the Alto x Sheryl flag, or how much goosebumps I got from the loli-like scene of Alto and Ranka in their sequence this episode, if Alto x Ranka is set in stone, then hey, I'm totally all for it. Naturally I won't be too happy, but we can't have what we want all the time, right?

Unfortunately, to be really honest with you? I don't like what happened to Alto x Ranka.

I really, really don't. One moment Alto was being his usual comatose self treating Ranka like a little imouto, then suddenly, Alto did a complete 180 in one episode, when Ranka hit moe jackpot with her concert.

I have no idea what to think if Alto/Ranka is the intended pairing, because, to me, it looks like, in two episodes, they fast-forwarded Alto and Ranka's relationship straight into lovers mode. There was absolutely no transition from Alto the disinterested rock to Alto the hysterical lover. You could argue it was Ranka's moe concert that did the trick, but whatever the Macross team is thinking, they cannot possibly expect us to believe that Alto's very foundation for liking Ranka is due to twinkling, shiny moe stars. In two episodes, Alto x Ranka managed to reach where Alto x Sheryl couldn't in seven episodes : the lovers mode. These two are already besotted with each other, with Alto crying out like he would for a lost lover. And I still have no idea how it happened. (Putting aside the moe stars, because I think that's an insult to Alto x Ranka fans.)

I say two episodes for Ranka, because Alto's Ranka flashbacks started from Episode 12... and none from the previous episodes. If Alto x Ranka is the intended pairing, then I expect the series to treat AxR like it did for all its canon pairings across the Macross series. Nowhere in the Macross universe have I ever been faced with : Rock ---(?)---Lover.

For me, Alto x Ranka lacks consistency. From what I've seen in the franchise, Macross is very capable of handling a good love story, and though 'good' is indeed a subjective term, Alto x Ranka's lack of substance is not. If they're an intended pairing, then all I can say is, they sorely need development.

...Unless this pairing plays the role of the red herring pairing, then it could somewhat explain the rushed nature of Alto x Ranka. :\ We'll see.

As usual, we have different opinions since I totally found RankaxAlto moment here adorable. I posted a similar response in the Alto thread so I'll just repost

Spoiler for Alto Saotome thread discussion:

Originally Posted by ani_d

Ranka's impact on Alto is rather interesting actually. Episode 1, he started out as a teenager who couldn't fly the way he wants to, but his silly meeting with Ranka suddenly reversed this and made him feel like he can push himself further---even if his corkscrew maneuver flopped lol Incidentally, Ranka was also the girl who pushed him to ride a Valkyrie and felt responsibility to protect with all his might. When Alto met a dead end on whether he should join SMS or not, it was Ranka and her song that empowered him to take a step forward to join the SMS---no matter how much of a coincidence that meeting was. I'm not sure where I should put his newlyfound concern on Ranka's condition, but I also think this was another one of the reasons that made him want to join SMS.

Piloting a valkyrie and Joining the SMS are both major turning points in Alto's life. Both of those times, Ranka's influence on him was present. They seem to be always drawn together at times where it counts.

Moreso than being able to understand his past, I think what Alto needs is someone who can make him feel like he can do things despite his many flaws.
He connects with his moral strengths whenever he gives advice or support to Ranka. In episode 13, he told Ranka that dwelling on the past is just a waste of time---something he applied to himself.

His desperation to save Ranka may also have something to do with what Ranka told him earlier on. I think the feeling of hearing someone say, "because you were there for me, I can do this" puts a big effect on his morale because it makes him feel appreciated on a deeper level. Judging from his facial expression, it seems like noone has ever said that to him, and seeing a girl come this far for his sake must've meant a lot. When the planet was swallowed, I thought he would lament for the sky, but his flashbacks were mostly composed of Ranka and him. I'm guessing he wasn't kidding when he said Ranka gave him the best present the moment she marched to Galia--all for him.

I don't see anything inconsistent between Alto's attitude in 13 due to reasons stated above. Before Sheryl got in the picture in 5, the first four episodes served as a ground to establish Ranka and Alto's friendship. Ranka and Alto are shown to be mutually close with the texting/talking to each other most of the time. Brotherly feelings or not, he has a soft spot for her. Alto is also shown to be most content when he's with Ranka and vice versa.

Also I don't think Alto and Ranka are in the "lovers mode" though. Whatever happened to them in that little moment of silence earlier on, it certainly doesn't equate to them being lovers. They just got a little closer than before. I prefer it better this way.

Based on the vibe I got from SherylxAlto in this episode, Alto considers Sheryl as a good friend along with Michael and trusts them enough to rely on them. Sheryl, on the other hand, respects his feelings and bears no jealousy or whatsoever. Maybe she expected this already? Since she knows Ranka has a thing for Alto too. It's also nice to note that she didn't think anything of him leaving Galia 4 with Ranka--just pure concern when she found out that something might've happened to them. I never saw Sheryl being emo, always talking about Alto during her search with Michael anyway. This behavior of hers definitely is giving her character some justice. From what I see, there are no pitiful "underdog" in this episode.

Originally Posted by ickem

Michel is teasing her. He's very astute at seeing relationship stuff so I'm sure he's quite aware of Sheryl's feelings for Alto. Remember that it was him that first noticed why Sheryl kept hanging around Alto in ep 8. I figure he will either become a neutral party or become pro SherylxAlto as he seems them fumbling around each other.

But it was nice to see him make Sheryl blush though. Meriting her about her confidence and saying how good of a woman she is, and she goes ahead and reacts to it.

[Swampstorm]

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same part, but Michael's question was "Is this the strength of a woman?" seems to specifically be directed with respect to Sheryl's concern for Alto (not to say that the strength of a woman need be limited to the context of her romantic interests, but his next implications seem to follow those lines). That's why when she replies by insisting that she's just doing what needs to be done, Michael tells her that she isn't honest. That's the lead in to Michael's musings on the girls around Alto and about how stubborn they are.

Hopefully that should clear it up for you.

[herbert]

Originally Posted by ani_d

As usual, we have different opinions since I totally found RankaxAlto moment here adorable. I posted a similar response in the Alto thread so I'll just repost

Spoiler for Alto Saotome thread discussion:

I don't see anything inconsistent between Alto's attitude in 13 due to reasons stated above. Before Sheryl got in the picture in 5, the first four episodes served as a ground to establish Ranka and Alto's friendship. Ranka and Alto are shown to be mutually close with the texting/talking to each other most of the time. Brotherly feelings or not, he has a soft spot for her. Alto is also shown to be most content when he's with Ranka and vice versa.

Hello, is that all you want to reply to crisis's post? I wonder if you really understand what he said or you just try to avoid sensitive parts. He is asking you that how you fit 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 into your so-called consistent picture, I didn't see you answer on that.

Originally Posted by ani_d

Based on the vibe I got from SherylxAlto in this episode, Alto considers Sheryl as a good friend along with Michael and trusts them enough to rely on them. Sheryl, on the other hand, respects his feelings and bears no jealousy or whatsoever. Maybe she expected this already? Since she knows Ranka has a thing for Alto too. It's also nice to note that she didn't think anything of him leaving Galia 4 with Ranka--just pure concern when she found out that something might've happened to them. I never saw Sheryl being emo, always talking about Alto during her search with Michael anyway. This behavior of hers definitely is giving her character some justice. From what I see, there are no pitiful "underdog" in this episode.

No, of course not. What did you expect? The underdog role is specifically designed for Ranka. I have said before, underdog position for Sheryl, very likely; underdog attitude for Sheryl, never. But be able to hold herself in dangerous situation doesn't mean she feels no fear; be able to keep jealousy in check doesn't mean she doesn't like Alto any less than Ranka.

I have to admit I found our minds work totally. It seems you need characters boardcast their thoughts so you can understand what they think. You don't read the one second hesistation before Sheryl answer Alto's request? It doesn't like she feels nothing, it's she knows what is more important.

Also, Alto sees Ranka is the one must be saved, but it doesn't matter by whom. He doesn't ask Mikhail and Sheryl to hold Brera so he can save Ranka with his own hand.

What this implies? I think, YES, he thinks Sheryl a friend, he thinks Ranka also a friend. He isn't biased towards Ranka. If he really thinks Ranka any more special than a friend, he would subconsiously choose to save Ranka by himself.

Originally Posted by ani_d

But it was nice to see him make Sheryl blush though. Meriting her about her confidence and saying how good of a woman she is, and she goes ahead and reacts to it.

Isn't it just an evidence how easy to get Sheryl embrassed whenever Alto is in question? I'm not sure if you're intentional or not, it sounds like you imply Sheryl may have a thing for Mikhail? Perhaps because I can't remember you have said anything alike when Alto makes Sheryl flush? Sorry to bring up older things, do you think they are at least equally cute when Sheryl blushes in ep5, 6, 8 and 10?

[stray]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

He's thinking about both Sheryl and Ranka at that time, though. The context is that all three girls are determined people.

Besides, loli-Klein is the version that pops up in his head. Which one of the two other girls is closer to that?

By that logic, I could borrow some of Wesley84's logic (sorry to anyone who has him on block)

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Prediction: Whomever Alto tells about his mother will win. Flying, acting, his father, that's practically common knowledge. His mom though, nobody knows.

And just go all out Oedipal... Ranka reminds Alto of mommy. Ranka = W1N kthxbye.

Anyway I don't feel like justifying my correlation, but I'm still shipping MichaelXSheryl. He's better for Sheryl than that bum Alto. Well, until Michael eats some pineapple salad, anyway.

edit: better wording

[Matrim]

Besides, loli-Klein is the version that pops up in his head. Which one of the two other girls is closer to that?

Considering that "the other version" of Klein is, let's put it this way - a bit difficult to imagine yourself involved with due to 'slight" difference in height and mass and type of sentient being, how is this indicative of anything?

[herbert]

Originally Posted by stray

And just go all out Oedipal... Ranka reminds Alto of mommy. Ranka = W1N kthxbye.

It's troublesome. You mean Alto's mommy is really like a little sister to him? Rely on him, look him up like a savor, ask him for advice on anything?

Who said Alto doesn't have a hero complex? This guy only wants girls (even his mommy) who can make him feel like a hero.

Originally Posted by stray

Anyway I don't feel like justifying my correlation, but I'm still shipping MichaelXSheryl. He's better for Sheryl than that bum Alto. Well, until Michael eats some pineapple salad, anyway.

I notice you are a Ranka fan, so may I ask you if you have good reason other than get Sheryl out of picture? And where do you want to put Klan Klan.

By the way, I am a LeonXRanka shipper. Because Ranka has thought she could't do anything, and Leon has done his best to make sure Ranka was correct. But when Ranka thinks she can do something, Leon steps aside to allow Ranka does whatever she wants to do. What a fantastic couple.

RankaXLeon ftw.

I'm kidding.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by herbert

By the way, I am a LeonXRanka shipper. Because Ranka has thought she could't do anything, and Leon has done his best to make sure Ranka was correct. But when Ranka thinks she can do something, Leon steps aside to allow Ranka does whatever she wants to do. What a fantastic couple.

RankaXLeon ftw.

I'm kidding.

[Swampstorm]

Originally Posted by stray

By that logic, I could borrow some of Wesley84's logic

And just go all out Oedipal... Ranka reminds Alto of mommy. Ranka = W1N kthxbye.

That really isn't the way that the Oedipus complex works...

Originally Posted by stray

Anyway I don't feel like justifying my correlation, but I'm still shipping MichaelXSheryl. He's better for Sheryl than that bum Alto. Well, until Michael eats some pineapple salad, anyway.

I like Michael a lot too (in some ways, he's much easier to relate to than Alto), but I give my full support to Sheryl and her feelings, because I see their depth. Love isn't about finding a person who is "good enough"... it's about recognizing that the person is "good enough". Perfection lies in perception.

Originally Posted by Matrim

Considering that "the other version" of Klein is, let's put it this way - a bit difficult to imagine yourself involved with due to 'slight" difference in height and mass and type of sentient being, how is this indicative of anything?

Well, we did see Michael playing with Klein in her normal form during their childhood (I wonder what side effects her gene error would have produced had she been micloned as a child?) Given the nature of his first memories of her, I would have imagined that he'd be more inclined to think of the larger Klein before the smaller one. Then again, what do the animators care?

But it was supposed to be a spoof argument in the first place.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

That really isn't the way that the Oedipus complex works...

Yeah, he'd first have to be adopted by Ozma, who has married Ranka.

[stray]

Originally Posted by herbert

It's troublesome. You mean Alto's mommy is really like a little sister to him? Rely on him, look him up like a savor, ask him for advice on anything?

I don't know... all we know about his mom is that he likes throwing paper airplanes when she's around.

Who said Alto doesn't have a hero complex? This guy only wants girls (even his mommy) who can make him feel like a hero.

I notice you are a Ranka fan, so may I ask you if you have good reason other than get Sheryl out of picture? And where do you want to put Klan Klan.

I haven't figured out what to do with Klan yet. Maybe she can eat the pineapple salad, thus opening things up for MichaelXSheryl... atlhough I really like Klan. Regardless, my point wasn't that it's logical, or likely, my point was that it's possible, at least from Michael's attitude towards Sheryl. And if nothing else, he seems to be able to understand her more than anyone so far in the series.

Why exactly does it have to be Alto/Sheryl/Ranka until the climax for the remaining 12-13 episodes? And what would be so bad about Sheryl ending up with Michael anyway, aside from the fact that she wants to be with Alto right now?

By the way, I am a LeonXRanka shipper. Because Ranka has thought she could't do anything, and Leon has done his best to make sure Ranka was correct. But when Ranka thinks she can do something, Leon steps aside to allow Ranka does whatever she wants to do. What a fantastic couple.

That's just silly. I mean, if anything, Bobby and Leon will hit it off when they find out they go to the same hairstylist.

[Swampstorm]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Yeah, he'd first have to be adopted by Ozma, who has married Ranka.

It would also need to happen when Alto is very young, at that. His 'mother' probably wouldn't be much older than two at the time.

Originally Posted by stray

Why exactly does it have to be Alto/Sheryl/Ranka until the climax for the remaining 12-13 episodes? And what would be so bad about Sheryl ending up with Michael anyway, aside from the fact that she wants to be with Alto right now?

It's fine, but only so long as it gets developed, first. Why root for a pairing before the characters themselves want it? Lulz aside, of course.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by stray

I don't know... all we know about his mom is that he likes throwing paper airplanes when she's around.



I haven't figured out what to do with Klan yet. Maybe she can eat the pineapple salad, thus opening things up for MichaelXSheryl... atlhough I really like Klan. Regardless, my point wasn't that it's logical, or likely, my point was that it's possible, at least from Michael's attitude towards Sheryl. And if nothing else, he seems to be able to understand her more than anyone so far in the series.

Why exactly does it have to be Alto/Sheryl/Ranka until the climax for the remaining 12-13 episodes? And what would be so bad about Sheryl ending up with Michael anyway, aside from the fact that she wants to be with Alto right now?



That's just silly. I mean, if anything, Bobby and Leon will hit it off when they find out they go to the same hairstylist.

Bobby and Leon have as much chance of hitting it off romantically, as Michael and Sheryl.

To suggest them as a possible pairing by you, is really silly. Do you remember episode 8, when Sheryl told Michael she didn't like easy men?

She shot him down faster than Ranka could cry for help from Alto.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

It's fine, but only so long as it gets developed, first. Why root for a pairing before the characters themselves want it? Lulz aside, of course.

Oh, I'm all about the lulz

But in all seriousness, I do really kind of relate to Michael's personality, which is why I think there may be a spark of real feeling towards Sheryl there, as well as decided to start shipping it.

I never said Sheryl reciprocated... all I'm saying, is to entertain the possibility.

btw, Alto's death wishes for his father aside, I'm sure you get the gist of what I was implying when I said oedipal...

[Terra]

I could see Micheal x Sheryl working. Yes when it comes to who Alto should end up with out of Sheryl/Ranka, I'm all for Sheryl. But I could see Micheal and Sheryl working together so long as he dropped the flirt act (and I do see it as an act. No way I'd like his character so much if that's what he really was. I find it amusing that I consider Micheal more of an actor round everyone else than Alto).

[Westlo]

Will Ranka join the Guld club? If so lets hope Alto does a Myung and at least admits that it's Sheryl he loves more first...

Originally Posted by ani_d

This behavior of hers definitely is giving her character some justice. From what I see, there are no pitiful "underdog" in this episode.

I don't think anyone expected Sheryl to be a "pitiful" underdog ala Ranka, but considering that Alto and Ranka look like they're about to get into a relationship how can Sheryl not be the underdog at this stage? Unless you consider Alto and Ranka's relationship to be the red herring which would mean a Sheryl ending than... and it's obvious you don't think this way.

But it was nice to see him make Sheryl blush though. Meriting her about her confidence and saying how good of a woman she is, and she goes ahead and reacts to it.

*sigh*

To paraphrase

Michael - Alto must have been hit by the pulse and is down somewhere
Sheryl - I'm not sick anymore and I'm going to look for them, I don't need you since I can fly by myself
Michael - Aren't you a good women (in regards to Alto)
Sheryl - *blush*

I mean geez he even mentions Alto and his difficult women right after that...

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

It would also need to happen when Alto is very young, at that. His 'mother' probably wouldn't be much older than two at the time.

If I recall correctly, Ozma would have to be driven mad and later be killed at some kind of sporting event by Alto. Possibly by crashing his VF-25 into the specators.

[zalem]

Sheryl isn't a pitiful underdog. She does the underdog role with style and grace.

This is Macross, anyone stating that the triangle is over and declaring a winner at this point is just being plain silly.

[Tak]

Just remember, Misa pulled a super duper uber finish in the last episode of the original. That is all.

- Tak

[SymphonicRain]

Just rewatched the last few episodes of Macross.

I find it amusing with Misa's way of expressing jealousy when she found out the photo album, leaving Hikaru's home with Minmay's life size posture turned upside down. Not long after, she 'forcefully' gives Hikaru an envelope full of her own photos to counter her jealousy towards Minmay.

Of course, as usual Hikaru is confused with the photo gesture by Misa :P

For some reason, these two scenes itself gives me an impression that Sheryl has the same temper as Misa's; exactly along the lines of what Sheryl may had done to express herself in similar circumstances. ^^;

[Westlo]

Haha yeah I loved those two scenes.