Madoka Magica - Episode 10 Discussion / Poll

[erneiz_hyde]

Just Watched This, Dumping Opinions.

WHEW. So the Archer theory was false and the Higurashi one was correct. glad I don't have to roflmao.

So they got the title wrong. It should be Puella Magi Homura Magica instead lol. I love how Homura's first encounter with Madoka here is exact opposite reminiscence of the earlier one we got. There are some mystery: how did Madoka became an MG and what was her wish? Why was Sayaka not originally an MG and yet she was on later timelines? So, Kyoko coming to town wasn't really because Mami died but she planned to come all along? Why was Sayaka so antagonizing Homura even when they were on the same side?

So, Homura, being the weakest of all the MG had to resort to firearms and explosives to dispatch witches. Glad those witches don't have AT-Field. Also, considering that she doesn't extensively use magic in combat, perhaps she really has the capability to survive prolonged fight but is helpless against an enemy with overwhelming force like the WN. Also, I have mixed feelings about Moemura...lol

Mami went insane. Perhaps the burden that she dragged everyone into this mess was too much for her and attempted to "atone" for it by at least giving those girls mercy killing? Damn you Gen, aren't you torturing her character too much? TAT

So, it's confirmed that QB CAN lie. He lied about Madoka's potential (she's not as godly as he described it), he lied about doing this for the future good of mankind (witch Madoka=earth apocalypse, and he cared less than shit for it). Honestly, if anyone is against stopping this eldritch abomination, I'm going to laugh hard and pity the guy.

"Oops, I just screwed your Earth. Lol, you mad? Whatever, I'm done with this planet anyway. It's you humans' problem now. Bye :3"

EDIT: Forgot to mention this. Someone, sometime ago in the board, posted that he predicted the ending theme for the finale will be the OP theme. He's kinda right about the OP being used as an ED but he missed by two episodes. Also, Magia ED has been missing for two weeks now! Is this another omen?

[FlavorOfLife]

Originally Posted by Jaden

Well, it looks like it'll be fine sooner or later? Madoka just has to kill Walpurgis on her own, which she has proven to be capable of. And after that, clean up her own soul gem and never use magic again. Homura can do the same too. Bonus points if they find a way to kill QB in the process.

Thing is that their bodies are puppets, so what moves their bodies? Their soul gem. So what does their soul gem use to move their bodies? Magic.

By existing they use magic power. The draw can be small but sonner or later they have to recharge.

From looking at the episode, i believe that if Homura dies or turns into a witch, her ability to travel back to the 16th (15th?) ends as it seems to be an activated ability only usable at a certain timeframe where the clauses of her wish has failed (noting the scene of Kyubei's bye speech)

This means it does to have to end happy even with Homura's endless reboots.

The entire episode just gives the vibe of someone redoing a visual novel to avoid certain endings

[Sheba]

When Homura activated her time travel ability that last time and walked like a boss, the Doctor Who theme played in my head.

[Taufiq91]

Somehow, after watching this episode i noticed a few observations:

1.All of the Walpurgis Night scenes remind me of End of Evangelion and the final chapter of Narutaru.

2.This anime can be considered a solid criticism of Public Relations/Advertising. I know i'm going all hipster professor here, but think about it:

Kyubey says "Make a contract, and your wish is fulfilled!". Isn't that basically the major point of every Advertising campaign out there? He said such words instead of "Join me and become really powerful witches".

And, everytime Kyubey says something, he always uses the word "contract" which is a major business term amongst salesmen, marketing execs, PR consultants and Ad Men. Isn't it obvious that Kyubey is nothing more than a telemarketer for witches?

And besides, "Magical Girl" is nothing more than a PR word for "witch". I mean, if you're going to recruit humans into witches, you don't say "witch", you'll of course say the PR word that is "Magical Girl". And that could easily fool people into becoming witches, because they think "Magical Girl" is a positive term, eventhough we all know that it's nothing more than an endurance test to turn them into witches.

And if you look at the PR and Advertising for Blackwater, Fox News, Monsanto, Pharmaceutical companies and BP, what they say are exactly similar to what Kyubey has said.

3.Now that we all know the OP is about homura instead of Madoka, don't you guys feel a little sadder listening to it? I mean, listening to the OP makes me think "wow, she must have suffered alot to save Madoka". And i feel bad.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Originally Posted by ThereminVox

A species ostensibly concerned with energy/heat conservation employs "slash and burn". That's just too delicious.

Maybe it is precisely because they slash and burn everything, that the Aliens had to resort to magical-girl farming. They have no concept of recycling or renewables at all. You can learn a lot about a culture that way.

In short, the powerful aliens are living the good life and everyone else pays the price.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

EDIT: Forgot to mention this. Someone, sometime ago in the board, posted that he predicted the ending theme for the finale will be the OP theme. He's kinda right about the OP being used as an ED but he missed by two episodes. Also, Magia ED has been missing for two weeks now! Is this another omen?

I'm pretty sure magia was played during this episode.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Just Watched This, Dumping Opinions.

WHEW. So the Archer theory was false and the Higurashi one was correct. glad I don't have to roflmao.

So they got the title wrong. It should be Puella Magi Homura Magica instead lol. I love how Homura's first encounter with Madoka here is exact opposite reminiscence of the earlier one we got. There are some mystery: how did Madoka became an MG and what was her wish? Why was Sayaka not originally an MG and yet she was on later timelines? So, Kyoko coming to town wasn't really because Mami died but she planned to come all along? Why was Sayaka so antagonizing Homura even when they were on the same side?

So, Homura, being the weakest of all the MG had to resort to firearms and explosives to dispatch witches. Glad those witches don't have AT-Field. Also, considering that she doesn't extensively use magic in combat, perhaps she really has the capability to survive prolonged fight but is helpless against an enemy with overwhelming force like the WN. Also, I have mixed feelings about Moemura...lol

"Oops, I just screwed your Earth. Lol, you mad? Whatever, I'm done with this planet anyway. It's you humans' problem now. Bye :3"

I think that Madoka in the earlier timelines must have done the same thing she said she was going to do when Mami was around: probably wished for a cake.

What I'm interested in what wish Madoka made in the last iteration. It must be the reason she was so godly that time, and why she remembers somewhat.

And to answer your Sayaka question, it didn't seem that Sayaka was antagonistic towards her, she thought that Homura was lying, possibly working for Kyouko (who seems to be an enemy at that point), and worried about spontaneous explosions happening near her (understandable). Later we see all of them fighting together so they probably got over it. Homura even seemed sad when she killed Sayaka that time.

[risingstar3110]

So basically we will have:

Bad end- also True End :For some reason Homura (maybe with some helps) will defeat the WN witch. After that she will travel the world, team up other MGs. And with her knowledge and experiences, they will defeat all witches while prevent more MGs to sign up. And when the war come to an end, and there's no more grief seeds to harvest, she will turn into the WN witch herself, who will travel back in time and attack the city (to ensure that her Homura-Mahou Shoujo version can protect Madoka from Homura-WN witch, and kill herself to end the system for good, which effectively solve our her wish and her time paradox). The last scene will see Homura-WN witch with her insane but satisfied laugh being torn to part by her Mahou Shoujo-version.
It's possible that she will turn into WN witch right after the fight, and will travel through time and space to kill all MGs and all witches (or even QBs) before returning for her death


Open End: Homura died to defend Madoka. They have some last moments together, before Madoka turn to Kyuubei for a wish which basically the same with Homura's one. The time loop again, and now it's Madoka turn to be a Mahou Shoujo for a new series


Good End: Higurashi's ending. Madoka taught Homura that no fate can be not defeated, and together with everyone , they can defeat the whole system. So Homura go back one more time, and the last scene seeing everyone in their Mahou Shoujo gear turning up to face the WN Witch.


Yuri End: I will leave it to your imaginations. But basically the power of love kick QB's ass

[Klashikari]

Regarding the "timelines" issues with Madoka and Sayaka, things aren't complicated:

As shown several times, Homura is supposed to leave hospital on the 16th and go to school on the 25th. That leaves 9 days in between, which is a long period enough to have Madoka contracting with Kyuubey for a full week.
The second timeline wasn't really of a big change, probably because Homura was still a bit confused and probably tried to figure what was her powers inherited with her wish. This explains why Madoka was already with Mami in this timeline.

Now, for Sayaka's (timeline 3), it might be a different iteration because we have no idea when things are happening exactly, nor how Homura interact with them.
Suffice to say, the way how Sayaka talked suggests that Sayaka was a MG before Homura joined, which means that the incident involving Madoka with a witch might be similar to the 5th timeline, without Homura's involvement.
Therefore, there is little to not consequence for Sayaka to be a MG before Homura shows up.

Now the true issue is Kyoko: why would she come all the way there, despite she was in another town? Her reason in the present timeline to be there was mostly because that territory was vacant due to Mami's death.
The only explanation I can have in mind is that things are going too well with Mami/Madoka/Sayaka and potentially Homura in the third timeline, so Kyuubey had to dispatch Kyoko there to stir things up (after all, it was Kyuubey who brought Kyoko to the vacant territory in the present timeline).

Now, we can assume that Homura was actually not rushing things, but even if she earnestly tell the truth after fighting alongside with the group for a certain time, Sayaka doesn't believe it at all, probably the same reason why Mami is blindly believing Kyuubey. And since Homura doesn't know Kyuubey "real" objective, aside of MG turning into witches, it makes Homura's explanation quite convulated for her peers in the end.
Ultimately, this timeline explains pretty well why Homura doesn't explain anything in the fifth one, because it would just lead to more troubles than anything.

Suffice to say, Sayaka probably transformed a tad later, but that demonstrates how her fate is sealed once she is a MG, regardless if they learn the deal with SG, considering the whole drama with Kyousuke and Hitomi.

Afterwards, it is just the same sequence of events, with little variations.
On the fourth timeline, Homura decides to go all out, and thus takes measure before her supposed transfer (considering the use of magic, it is very likely she managed to go to school early than the 3 previous timelines), which explains why she managed to get to Madoka's school twice before the latter becomes a MG.

[MartianMage]

I can only think of 2 possibilities for the ending. 1 should be Madoka gaining power without contract and the other making a contract with Kyubey and her wish this time grants her power to obliterate walpurgis and create a favorable situation for her... Homura dies in this ending stopping the loop.

It's not that far fetched that Madoka maybe able to acquire her power in this timeline without contracting Kyubey. Some hints that we can follow:

1. Madoka's "static" hinting that she's somehow recalling something that she should not be recalling at all.
2. With each time loop Madoka was getting stronger. Witch Madoka in timeline 2 was different from witch madoka in timeline 4. Only in timeline 4 did Kyubey really praise Madoka, In timeline 5 Kyubey already took notice while she's still a human. Madoka's power maybe seeping and accumulating through time.

I'm totally discounting a bad end and a reset end.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Now, for Sayaka's (timeline 3), it might be a different iteration because we have no idea when things are happening exactly, nor how Homura interact with them.
Suffice to say, the way how Sayaka talked suggests that Sayaka was a MG before Homura joined, which means that the incident involving Madoka with a witch might be similar to the 5th timeline, without Homura's involvement.
Therefore, there is little to not consequence for Sayaka to be a MG before Homura shows up.

Now the true issue is Kyoko: why would she come all the way there, despite she was in another town? Her reason in the present timeline to be there was mostly because that territory was vacant due to Mami's death.
The only explanation I can have in mind is that things are going too well with Mami/Madoka/Sayaka and potentially Homura in the third timeline, so Kyuubey had to dispatch Kyoko there to stir things up (after all, it was Kyuubey who brought Kyoko to the vacant territory in the present timeline).

You maybe right here. It does make sense that Sayaka only have her mind-break, after realizing her "zombie" body. And this was only because her ideal and Kyoko was so different at the start that they fought several times. That's when the whole "zombie" body was slipped out

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato

I can only think of 2 possibilities for the ending. 1 should be Madoka gaining power without contract and the other making a contract with Kyubey and her wish this time grants her power to obliterate walpurgis and create a favorable situation for her... Homura dies in this ending stopping the loop.

It's not that far fetched that Madoka maybe able to acquire her power in this timeline without contracting Kyubey. Some hints that we can follow:

1. Madoka's "static" hinting that she's somehow recalling something that she should not be recalling at all.
2. With each time loop Madoka was getting stronger. Witch Madoka in timeline 2 was different from witch madoka in timeline 4. Only in timeline 4 did Kyubey really praise Madoka, In timeline 5 Kyubey already took notice while she's still a human. Madoka's power maybe seeping and accumulating through time.

I'm totally discounting a bad end and a reset end.

I really don't think Madoka "gradually" became stronger. It is a huge matter of context:
Episode 3 tells us that Madoka doesn't have a peculiar wish, except fighting alonside with Mami. What troubles her though is Homura's odd behavior and striking words "if you hold people dear to you, do not become what you aren't".

So, the first timeline, Madoka basically had no obstacle or food for thought, so she becomes a MG early and Mami doesn't die because she isn't alone dealing with charlotte.
Second timeline is similar, because Homura arrived when Madoka knew what Homura was talking about. Madoka didn't die because this time, they were the 3 of them fighting WN.
Third timeline wasn't really different, and it actually went worse (since Homura's SG was more affected than timeline 2), which can be explained because of the trauma Madoka had with Sayaka/Kyoko/Mami.
Fouth timeline brings a power up for Madoka, because she was tortured by her "powerless situation" and this time, her wish was most likely not half baked, as she wanted to protect Homura.

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

You maybe right here. It does make sense that Sayaka only have her mind-break, after realizing her "zombie" body. And this was only because her ideal and Kyoko was so different at the start that they fought several times. That's when the whole "zombie" body was slipped out

I don't think the zombie matter was disclosed, it isn't really a mandatory, considering that Madoka was already a MG, so there is nothing that would put Sayaka's SG to danger.
I think it is because of Madoka and/or Mami that Sayaka and Kyoko could get along in the end, with a subplot regarding Sayaka's romance rotting away.

It is interesting to note that Sayaka's minions in the third timeline weren't violonists but things having striking ressemblance to Hitomi. Which tells me that even if Sayaka doesn't realize she is a "zombie", she probably cursed herself not to face Hitomi regarding Kyousuke (they are friends after all), so in the end, she probably bottled things when Hitomi was going out with Kyousuke, leading her to overdo herself with MG duties, leading to her transformation.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Dextro

I'm pretty sure magia was played during this episode.

Oh, played alright, but not as ED. Magia was played in ep 1 & 2 but only in 3 was played as an ED.
1, 2, 3.
9, 10, 11...?

Just spicing up the hype

[Orin GA]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

So basically we will have:

Bad end- also True End :For some reason Homura (maybe with some helps) will defeat the WN witch. After that she will travel the world, team up other MGs. And with her knowledge and experiences, they will defeat all witches while prevent more MGs to sign up. And when the war come to an end, and there's no more grief seeds to harvest, she will turn into the WN witch herself, who will travel back in time and attack the city (to ensure that her Homura-Mahou Shoujo version can protect Madoka from Homura-WN witch, and kill herself to end the system for good, which effectively solve our her wish and her time paradox). The last scene will see Homura-WN witch with her insane but satisfied laugh being torn to part by her Mahou Shoujo-version.
It's possible that she will turn into WN witch right after the fight, and will travel through time and space to kill all MGs and all witches before returning for her death


Open End: Homura died to defend Madoka. They have some last moments together, before Madoka turn to Kyuubei for a wish which basically the same with Homura's one. The time loop again, and now it's Madoka turn to be a Mahou Shoujo for a new series


Good End: Higurashi's ending. Madoka taught Homura that no fate can be not defeated, and together with everyone , they can defeat the whole system. So Homura go back one more time, and the last scene seeing everyone in their Mahou Shoujo gear turning up to face the WN Witch.


Yuri End: I will leave it to your imaginations. But basically the power of love kick QB's ass

What, that makes no kinda sense. What makes you think she will keep her humanity after she turns into a witch?

[zato_1one]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Afterwards, it is just the same sequence of events, with little variations.

I think that it was the main problem for Homura. Whatever she did, it was still end with Madoka had to fight with Walpurgis Night again and again. No matter how hard she tried to recruit other MG to help fighting Walpurgis Night. They would die before Walpurgis Night came for some reasons and thus fail to prevent Madoka vs Walpurgis Night because she couldn't handle it herself.

[Crontica]

Originally Posted by Sheba

When Homura activated her time travel ability that last time and walked like a boss, the Doctor Who theme played in my head.

GG subs agrees

[MartianMage]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I really don't think Madoka "gradually" became stronger. It is a huge matter of context:
Episode 3 tells us that Madoka doesn't have a peculiar wish, except fighting alonside with Mami. What troubles her though is Homura's odd behavior and striking words "if you hold people dear to you, do not become what you aren't".

So, the first timeline, Madoka basically had no obstacle or food for thought, so she becomes a MG early and Mami doesn't die because she isn't alone dealing with charlotte.
Second timeline is similar, because Homura arrived when Madoka knew what Homura was talking about. Madoka didn't die because this time, they were the 3 of them fighting WN.
Third timeline wasn't really different, and it actually went worse (since Homura's SG was more affected than timeline 2), which can be explained because of the trauma Madoka had with Sayaka/Kyoko/Mami.
Fouth timeline brings a power up for Madoka, because she was tortured by her "powerless situation" and this time, her wish was most likely not half baked, as she wanted to protect Homura.

I still think that she's gradually becoming stronger. From Kyubey's enthusiasm in the 5th timeline it hints that Madoka would be ridiculously powerful regardless of what wish Madoka makes. And there's also the static Madoka is getting when she tries to think that she met Homura before. She shouldn't really be recalling her "memories."

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Orin GA

What, that makes no kinda sense. What makes you think she will keep her humanity after she turns into a witch?

I don't think she will keep her sanity. But every witch seems to be driven by their ultimate wishes/regrets, and in Homura's case, it may go in the same line with how "the universe" decided of not causing time paradox

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by zato_1one

I think that it was the main problem for Homura. Whatever she did, it was still end with Madoka had to fight with Walpurgis Night again and again. No matter how hard she tried to recruit other MG to help fighting Walpurgis Night. They would die before Walpurgis Night came for some reasons and thus fail to prevent Madoka vs Walpurgis Night because she couldn't handle it herself.

It is pretty obvious that even if the sentai group minus Madoka is fighting WN, they would fail considering the drastic difference in powers.
Mami died despite Madoka was with her, and this happened twice (the second time, she died while Homura was with them).

The timelines show that Mami will always die during WN, unless she learns about the SG issue, leading to a mental breakdown.
Sayaka will turn into a witch, regardless if that information is disclosed or not, unless they can do something about her romance, which is a tad difficult.
Kyoko is probably not going to be there if Sayaka isn't.

It leads to a simple equation: Mami is basically a goner. Sayaka will lead to Mami mental breakdown. Kyoko won't show up without Sayaka.
Basically, the whole deal is a merciless turn of events that prevent all girls to be reunited under a single flag, unless major changes are done.

But unless there is an alternative method for Madoka to be a MG, it is a flat out game over if she contracts with QB.
Basically, nearly all the odds are against Homura, and it is quite understandable why she tried once to deal with everything alone, but it didn't work either.

Originally Posted by Kuroi Sabato

I still think that she's gradually becoming stronger. From Kyubey's enthusiasm in the 5th timeline it hints that Madoka would be ridiculously powerful regardless of what wish Madoka makes. And there's also the static Madoka is getting when she tries to think that she met Homura before. She shouldn't really be recalling her "memories."

This is exactly the point that should be noted: powers do differ with wishes, and we already got evidences for that (if you compare every girls).
The first timeline already proved Madoka's superiority: even with a mundane wish, she managed to deal with WN, even at the cost of her life.

The static is what I consider only a remnant of memories due to the timeloops. It doesn't mean her powers are actually increasing.

[Funkatron]

Originally Posted by creb

My only problem with all the theories concerning Madoka finding an alternate way to become a magical girl and cutting QB out of the loop is that it is ignoring the actual problem. Magical girls turn into witches. It's not like QB is waving his magical fairy wand and going, "Time to turn into a witch!". I don't think the manner in which one becomes a magical girl in any way answers the problem of magical girls turning into witches.

In fact, I imagine QB would love for humanity/any other aliens to figure out how to go magical girl on their own. That'd cut out most of his work.

But, with only two episodes left, we're going to find out for ourselves just how Gen has decided to end it all. I haven't been this excited/in suspense of an anime in years.

Magical girls who contract with QB become witches. Who knows if a natural magical girl will turn into a witch?

Originally Posted by Crontica

GG subs agrees

Dr. Whomura