(L) Mirai Nikki (Series)

[kitten320]

Episode 23
It does not explain why Yuno is strong because since she is a winner from 1st world, she had to be strong back then too.

Episode 24
No matter what Yuno says, she doesn't care about Yukki either and needs to die. The 3rd world Yuno better get on right path to make up for her dumbness! Can't believe she is the most loved character of the series , people have some of the worst tastes x_x

Yes, Minene is alive an owning! Go knock some sense into Yukki! He is irritating as usual. She is the only normal character in this series.

Well Tsubaki was good too and I guess that duo couple wasn't bad either.

I really liked series at the start but now it's just meh...

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Episode 23
It does not explain why Yuno is strong because since she is a winner from 1st world, she had to be strong back then too.

My guess is that the first world was a typical "work to get stronger" sort of show where both Yuki and Yuno helped each other to grow and overcome the odds. And before you say, "Yuki would have held her back", he was stronger in the first world because Yuno wasn't breathing on his neck as hard back then.

[DarkyPwnz]

Originally Posted by kitten320

Episode 23
It does not explain why Yuno is strong because since she is a winner from 1st world, she had to be strong back then too.

Episode 24
No matter what Yuno says, she doesn't care about Yukki either and needs to die. The 3rd world Yuno better get on right path to make up for her dumbness! Can't believe she is the most loved character of the series , people have some of the worst tastes x_x

Yes, Minene is alive an owning! Go knock some sense into Yukki! He is irritating as usual. She is the only normal character in this series.

Well Tsubaki was good too and I guess that duo couple wasn't bad either.

I really liked series at the start but now it's just meh...

She wasn't normal when she killed herself for that Yukiteru wimp. I think we can both agree (me being that person with a crappy taste and thinks Yuno is awesome) that Yukiteru is the worst character in the series and he is just goddamnit awful.

Also,if she could keep her god powers on the other world,why didn't she take them with her? And where is third world's Deus, wouldn't he notice someone else was actin' like God and stuff?

[warita]

It just occured to me, Minene got her hand back, but not her eye? Aha....

[Flawfinder]

Originally Posted by warita

It just occured to me, Minene got her hand back, but not her eye? Aha....

Deus is sort of cheap that way.

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by KoiYuki

Here's something that I don't get.. Yukki was still alive when Yuno was crowned winner (and it wasn't revoked once they knew he was alive), so.. why would she still try to kill him? She's god now, and he's alive.. It seems like a perfect scenario for her. Or even if she wasn't god yet, they're both still alive, and technically their other world counterparts could play..?

There's a difference between "crowned winner" and "becoming God." As Murmur pointed out, "once you assume control of causality..." Or in other words, Murmur made the classic mistake of mistaking Yukki falling for Yukki actually going splat. Second World doesn't have a God right now (though Minene is kind of half of one at this point ).

Otherwise, I'm glad that Ninth got around to pointing out that the first, second, and third worlds are alternate timelines, not going back into the same timeline. Last week's discussion made it frustrating not to point this out, because at that point it would have been a manga spoiler to say so! As she says, Yuno's hostages are Yukki 3rd's parents, not Yukki 2nd's. Of course, Yukki's now desperately trying to save Yuno 3rd from Yuno 1st, while the Yuno 2nd he thought he knew has been dead all along...

(I will not comment about Murmur 2nd's fate...damn spoilers.)

There's a pretty obvious answer to Minene's question, I must say. If Yukki's finally going to man up, he's going to say it.

@kitten320: Incidentally, I don't think it's accurate to say that Yuno doesn't love Yukki. It's just that she's a complete raging nutter that makes her expressions of that love come off so strangely. Divine power in the hand of a psycho never makes for a good thing, particularly when she's locked in to this "I will live in this eternal loop of alternate worlds with Yukki!" mode that can't end well for anybody.

But then again, what does it say about this series that the most sympathetic character left standing at this point is a terrorist that blows up schoolchildren on-screen?

[Flawfinder]

@DezoPenguin Personally, I'm not sure how I feel about Yuki "manning up" if it comes. Firstly, it's a little too late at this point. Secondly, the reason I like Yuki so much is because he destroyed people's expectations by not "manning up", but rather getting worse because his inability to mature (and other factors) caused everything that was given to him (a girlfriend, the ability to predict the future, etc.) to make his life worse. If he mans up at this point, it'll have to be within character and within his physical abilities. If he goes ultra badass, I'm going to be so disappointed that the series didn't go all the way in making him the anti-thesis of the usual wimp character.

[warita]

Yeah..... but I still dont get the feeling that looping endlessly is what Yuno meant to do right from the start. I think she is slowly developing a taste for it. She is a nutter, I guess she figured this is the perfect solution in a way and I think she realized it during the second cycle.

I could be wrong, so I will just wait and see.

[Arya]

Ahhh, this episode got me confused. Did Yuno has won or not?
Because, if she won she shouldn't need to time leap, I mean she won so she should have become god, saved the world from collapsing and having Yuki still alive. Since none of these happened, (except for Yuki being unluckily still alive (j/k) ), it means that she didn't win.
So why time leaping? Because killing Yuki looked too hard? Ok, but once Yuno left the second timeline Yuki should have won for "withdrawal" and became god himself, being the last man standing in that timeline. Am I wrong? But he decided to follow Yuno to stop her from keep on leaping, didn't he? So supposedly he gave up on the second timeline leaving it collapsing or what. Because so far the leap seems to be meant only from a dimension to another. On the contrary, why did Yuno change timeline in the first place? (I have to wait on this, because I foresee that Yuki will be back on the second timeline to save even this world).
So, why didn't he kill her from the start? I mean she explained him the situation at the beginning of the episode. And the rules were quite simple from the very start. Kill or get killed. I understand that is the Yuki indecision-ness and it fits his character, but you know lately I end up blaming Yuno ... and not for having been to oppressive, but to not having been enough fast with that axe

Last, I don't understand when Murmur helped Yuno to the point to define her behavior unfare. Considering that in ep 23 she leaked to Yuki some relevant informations instead of let Yuno be.

[Dengar]

I think it's established now that Yuno has more or less been using Yuki to satisfy her need for someone she can cling to. It's not so much that she would do anything for him, but to be with him. The two attitudes are similar on the surface, but different at their foundations. This is why she can easily discard this "defective" Yuki, and start over with a Yuki "who may become more like the ideal Yuki that she envisions".

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

Otherwise, I'm glad that Ninth got around to pointing out that the first, second, and third worlds are alternate timelines, not going back into the same timeline. Last week's discussion made it frustrating not to point this out, because at that point it would have been a manga spoiler to say so! As she says, Yuno's hostages are Yukki 3rd's parents, not Yukki 2nd's. Of course, Yukki's now desperately trying to save Yuno 3rd from Yuno 1st, while the Yuno 2nd he thought he knew has been dead all along...

But then again, what does it say about this series that the most sympathetic character left standing at this point is a terrorist that blows up schoolchildren on-screen?

Okay, I get that part, but are they more or less just copies of each other? As in, yeah, they're completely independent timelines, but other than the changes made by time-traveling parties, isn't this exactly the same world? I pretty much understood it as that from when Murmur explained how all the changes in the 2nd timeline were a result of Yuno (or indirectly because of Yuno, like Yukiteru checking the room in her house).

If it's exactly the same world other than the time-travelers, then I still don't see Yuki's desire to protect this new Yuno. If I were him, I'd have killed her and the old one and danced on their dead bodies... but I guess I wouldn't be able to fall in love with someone who imprisoned me for weeks in the first place.

I'd still say I sympathize more with Yuki than Minene, though. Many of his actions I understand. If I saw my parents die like him and knew I might be able to bring them back I'd probably do just what he did. He was unaware that he couldn't bring any of his victims back, and by the time Hinata told him this wasn't the case it was way too late to turn back, anyways. Biggest thing separating me from him is I'd relish in killing Yuno rather than go to pains not to, lol.

[Dengar]

They are the same right up to the arrival of the time leapers. After that, and as time continues to go on, anything goes really. Butterfly effect and all that. Basically the more time passes, the bigger the chances of certain events happening differently.

And this is of course before applying the changes that are being made on purpose by the time leapers themselves.

Which is why the 2nd world is only slightly different to the 1st one. The changes did become more prominent as time passed, however.

[DarkyPwnz]

I think the whole "more than one time god can exist at a time" thing really screws things up. Yuno huge ball mode shouldn't co-exist with Deus of the 3rd world. There shouldn't be a deus of the 3rd world either,one and only Deus.

[Flawfinder]

^ I'm pretty sure that the huge ball belongs to Murmur though. And I don't think Murmur is restricted by those rules.

[KoiYuki]

Originally Posted by warita

It just occured to me, Minene got her hand back, but not her eye? Aha....

Well, there's a fake eye in the way of the real eye.. and maybe also because the hand injury happened afte Deus gave her powers (I'm not totally sure, I can't remember). It also looks like Deus's hand, and he DID jam that hand through her stomach..

Originally Posted by DarkyPwnz

Also,if she could keep her god powers on the other world,why didn't she take them with her? And where is third world's Deus, wouldn't he notice someone else was actin' like God and stuff?

Maybe she lost them when she took over Yuno2's place? And then Murmur took her memory for a while too..

Originally Posted by DezoPenguin

There's a difference between "crowned winner" and "becoming God." As Murmur pointed out, "once you assume control of causality..." Or in other words, Murmur made the classic mistake of mistaking Yukki falling for Yukki actually going splat. Second World doesn't have a God right now (though Minene is kind of half of one at this point ).

But in that case, why did Yuno gain powers? Or should I just count it as Murmur's powers, and Yuno doesn't have any (just the Deus outfit)?

I keep typing Desu instead of Deus.

[DarkyPwnz]

It's kinda awkward,I had this hypothesis that Minene didn't get her eye back because Deus did his stuff on her after she got the eye injury,but then the flashback showed him doing that when she was dieing,after she lost her hand too. But somehow I have this feeling that when they showed that scene before,it happened before her "death".

[DezoPenguin]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Okay, I get that part, but are they more or less just copies of each other? As in, yeah, they're completely independent timelines, but other than the changes made by time-traveling parties, isn't this exactly the same world? I pretty much understood it as that from when Murmur explained how all the changes in the 2nd timeline were a result of Yuno (or indirectly because of Yuno, like Yukiteru checking the room in her house).

If it's exactly the same world other than the time-travelers, then I still don't see Yuki's desire to protect this new Yuno. If I were him, I'd have killed her and the old one and danced on their dead bodies... but I guess I wouldn't be able to fall in love with someone who imprisoned me for weeks in the first place.

It's...complicated (okay, it's not; it's just unexplained ), but it appears that different worlds can have minor-yet-significant differences. You've actually already seen one, but don't really know it (and again, spoiler...PM me if you want to know). One we have seen that made a huge difference, though, was of course Yukki choosing to open the door in Yuno's house. Now, we might explain that as saying that, even with her memories sealed, Yuno-1 acted slightly differently than she did the first time, producing slightly different reactions in Yukki-2 than she did in Yukki-1, but by all accounts it seems that Yukki-2 simply made a different decision than Yukki-1, which sent pretty much all of the Yukki/Yuno interactions spiraling off on a different path (I wonder, for example, if Yukki-1 ever knew that Yuno-1 had murdered her parents).

[miketyson]

DezoPenguin: that actually closes one of the lingering plotholes, at least for me. It's always bugged me that Yuno just left that room like that for Yukiteru to stumble into eventually -- seems impossibly stupid, honestly -- but I guess if you assume that she left it like that the first time around and he never went in it makes more sense.

Come to think of it, first-world alpha-Yukiteru might've just put her up at his house much earlier on, and in fact he might not've ever gone to her house (don't remember if her house is in any of those glimpses Murmur gives...).

In terms of parallel worlds and stuff changing, if you've been watching it this long and are still expecting things to tie together neatly and logically I don't know what to tell you, . At the thematic level it's pretty clear the author was aiming for a "some things can be changed, others pretty much can't be, even if you'd want them changed..." vibe. That much is pulled-off, but the rest is more than a little messy.

[Arya]

Originally Posted by miketyson

DezoPenguin: that actually closes one of the lingering plotholes, at least for me. It's always bugged me that Yuno just left that room like that for Yukiteru to stumble into eventually -- seems impossibly stupid, honestly -- but I guess if you assume that she left it like that the first time around and he never went in it makes more sense.

you made me remember about this. Yes, definitely not the smartest move at all leaving that room as it was. Yuno is really smart so for me it remains a bit a plothole, even if I understand it was necessary.
Speaking of that room, when Yuki stumbled in the room it was still *normal*, I mean, cage and corpses. Days later the room was replaced by a huge hole. I was assuming that the hole was made by Yuno's first leap, but this episode showed us that this is not the case. When yuno killed Yuno-2 the room looked *normal*. So, who made that hole? or may I say, which Yuno?
And (probably I'm saying the obvious) since until now I was assuming that Yuno leaped earlier to the second timeline I thought that Yuno and Yuno-2 could have had more differences, but now what really made the difference, as DezoPenguin already pointed out, was Yuki opening that door.

[miketyson]

Ah Arya, you and me both. I actually think the author originally planned that big hole to be as you said -- due to her first leap -- then changed his mind about that a bit later on. I've mentioned this theory a few pages back in the thread somewhere.