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View Poll Results: Gundam 00 Series Rating
Perfect 10 93 26.80%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 68 19.60%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 95 27.38%
7 out of 10 : Good 48 13.83%
6 out of 10 : Average 16 4.61%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 8 2.31%
4 out of 10 : Poor 4 1.15%
3 out of 10 : Bad 3 0.86%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 2 0.58%
1 out of 10 : Painful 10 2.88%
Voters: 347. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-04-01, 20:46   Link #41
Charred Knight
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I don't see what was so utterly superior about the first season and I swear to god it's simply the fact that it's not the one being reviewed that makes it oh so great now. People were bitching just the same back then if not even more so. Also the first season had the same problem with marginalizing Allelujah. In fact I think he got more focus this season than last season with the whole Marie storyline.

It all comes down to the fact that they split the series in two. I guarantee that if they hadn't split the series and just had a 4 year time skip after episode 25 then there would be no major issues with the second half to the degree that people proclaim.
The problem is that the first season suceeds at its goal while the second season fails.

The First season does an excellent job introducing the world, and setting up the second season, the second season does a horrible job finishing the series. While part of the blame can be laid on the movie, except for the last few scenes, they setup the movie horribly.

What they should have done was setup the rougue members of the Earth Federation like Katharon and Hercule's coup as allies, with an ending that has Celestial Being taking on a Londo Bell type role. Instead we get an ending where the biggest threat to the Earth Federation is Celestial Being itself, and the Earth Federation is staffed by one competent person, a bunch of unknowns and several incompetent people.

How the hell is Celestial Being going to end all wars if they are constantly fighting the Earth Federation?

Who the hell is paying for Celestial Being and where are their bases?
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Old 2009-04-01, 20:49   Link #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charred Knight View Post
The problem is that the first season suceeds at its goal while the second season fails.

The First season does an excellent job introducing the world, and setting up the second season, the second season does a horrible job finishing the series. While part of the blame can be laid on the movie, except for the last few scenes, they setup the movie horribly.

What they should have done was setup the rougue members of the Earth Federation like Katharon and Hercule's coup as allies, with and ending that has Celestial Being taking on a Londo Bell type role. Instead we get an ending where the biggest threat to the Earth Federation is Celestial Being itself.

How the hell is Celestial Being going to end all wars if they are constantly fighting the Earth Federation?

Who the hell is paying for Celestial Being and where are their bases?
Errrr....the first season didn't succed at it's goal at all......that was kind of the point of having the second half. Also I haven't used this one in a long time, but just you saying something doesn't make it true. Also I'd say 99% of the problem with the second season as far as you went was when you suddenly decided to make it impossible for yourself to enjoy any of it and decided you were just going to run around looking for reasons to complain. That'll kill any show for a person. Also the fact that you are so continually obsessed with what the show isn't as opposed to what it is doesn't help either. Sorry, have a good night, better luck next time kid.

Seriously your credibility has long since been shot for me and I don't know why you keep trying to engage me in conversation. I just don't get it......
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Old 2009-04-01, 21:03   Link #43
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7/10
Battle scenes are the best in the series IMO.

Dunno, after watching 50 episodes of this show, I feel like the entire plot could've been done in a 25 episode series, and it would make the show better.
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Old 2009-04-01, 21:06   Link #44
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Originally Posted by Papaya View Post
7/10
Battle scenes are the best in the series IMO.

Dunno, after watching 50 episodes of this show, I feel like the entire plot could've been done in a 25 episode series, and it would make the show better.
They might have been able to get away with 39 episodes if they had cut some of the interventions of the week during the first season and merged some episodes together here and there with some redundant elements getting cut, but I can't see it working with only 25. Not a chance.
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Old 2009-04-01, 21:27   Link #45
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I give this series 8/10 for its story and chaacter development.
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Old 2009-04-01, 23:54   Link #46
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season1 > season2

season1 was realistic. i just can't be satisfied on season2.

i mean because of pl0t hax and "villians not going all out."

rating: 6/10

this series would have been a BANG if season2 was better and realistic.
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Old 2009-04-02, 00:17   Link #47
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Originally Posted by xharaikox View Post
season1 > season2

season1 was realistic. i just can't be satisfied on season2.

i mean because of pl0t hax and "villians not going all out."

rating: 6/10

this series would have been a BANG if season2 was better and realistic.
Do you want to explain to me how Season 2 was more "Hax" and less "realistic then Season 1? I'm just trying to disprove my theory that people are being arbitrary with regard to "weak sequel syndrome" and are forcibly applying it to Gundam 00.
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Old 2009-04-02, 00:20   Link #48
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I fail to see how any show involving the use of giant robots in battle is "realistic." If you people want to watch a show with realism in it, go watch a live-action television program that isn't on Sci-Fi or HBO or the like.
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Old 2009-04-02, 00:35   Link #49
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Originally Posted by Rising Dragon View Post
I fail to see how any show involving the use of giant robots in battle is "realistic." If you people want to watch a show with realism in it, go watch a live-action television program that isn't on Sci-Fi or HBO or the like.
I'm more just trying to figure out what specifically people find so overwhelmingly more "hax" and "unrealistic" compared to the first season and why this is even problematic to begin with.

First considering this season the Gundam's are actually scratchable right from the get go I would say the second season easily has less of a "problem" with hax. Even the 0-Raiser is more vulnerable during it's career then the Exia was during those first armed interventions and really there is no period in time with a greater power differential ("hax" I guess, which is fast approaching stupid complaint level to me because I now have to imagine Saddam Hussein during the first gulf war screaming "Haaaaaaaaaax!" because of the Allies overwhelming tech advantage in smart bombing to name an example. Real war isn't any more balanced so I don't get how tech advantages are unrealistic. Practical is what I'd call it actually) then the Pre-GN-X episode of the first season....if we are to call it a problem that is, which I don't really consider reasonable. War is unfair, some sides have advantages in tech that tip the balance (and no I'm not talking Civ IV Tank vs. Pikeman action, but like the U.S having the A-BOMB during WWII and nobody else having access. "Hax" or better weapons research?)...deal with it, that's all I'll say.
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Old 2009-04-02, 02:07   Link #50
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I'm more just trying to figure out what specifically people find so overwhelmingly more "hax" and "unrealistic" compared to the first season and why this is even problematic to begin with.
I think people say the First Season was more realistic for a variety of reasons, though I suspect the main reason is because of the whole "00-Raiser spreads its GN Particles in massive amounts to allow people to understand each other somehow." Even though the series properly explained the whole thing, most people view it as a magical solution to the problem humanity faces. In other words, a majority see it as a cop out after painting what seems like a realistic view of the world. Probably people were expecting a more down to earth type of solution rather than the science fiction approach that was taken. It's funny when you think about it because Gundam is supposed to be a science fiction type of series, yet it's the science fiction that people hate the most about Gundam 00.

A second reason that people probably don't like the Second Season as much as the First Season is because Gundam fans view Gundam as a war type series. They believe it's more realistic if there's more death since war obviously will result in many deaths. If I had to guess, that's probably one of the reasons people like the UC Series, especially Zeta and Victory Gundam (I can't say for certain, but I'm willing to bet that that's one of the aspects people like about those two series). I'm guessing a majority were expecting a bloodbath (myself included) since it was the finale, but it didn't happen, so they're disappointed.

As for me, what I didn't like about Gundam 00 was how certain parts of the story were told and how there were quite a few inconsistencies in the plot. One of my biggest gripes is with Tieria. How is it that Tieria doesn't know about the Innovators and is shocked to hear about them from Regene, yet he somehow knows and tells Ribbons that they are not Innovators but Innovades? That's a rather big plot hole right there. I also don't understand how Hallelujah can just show up in Episode 25 of Season 2 and take on Hilling Care when the GN Particles from Trans Am Burst Mode are supposedly gone by that time of the battle. And like others pointed out, why didn't Ribbons use his clone army in the beginning of the series? And why use them as suicide missiles when he could've easily used them for the sake of overwhelming CB with numbers? It's these sort of things that go unexplained or are only hinted at in the show that I get annoyed about, and it makes Gundam 00 not live up to the potential it could've reached. Perhaps the staff intended the show to be the type where they would just show and not tell and allow the viewers to interpret everything, but I felt that Gundam 00 did this way too much. As a result, things like the clone army feel like they were pulled out of thin air and put in for the convenience of the writers.

I'm guessing some of this may have been explained in one of the many mangas for Gundam 00, or in an anime magazine in Japan, but that's another thing I got irritated with this show. I know why Sunrise and the companies involved in creating Gundam 00 do this (to make more money), but it's irritating that you can't enjoy the show to its fullest just by watching the show itself. This is the main reason why I was disappointed with the ending to the Second Season: it's rather inconclusive. The only way to find out its true ending is to watch the Movie when it comes out. Personally, I feel that a proper ending should've been made for the Second Season, and the movie be something extra that you don't have to watch to see the story's end.

Now, after that long rant of mine, I will admit that I did enjoy Gundam 00 in general. After all, how could I watch all 50 episodes if I didn't like some parts of it? I did like the whole concept; an organization using force to eradicate war? That's something I haven't seen before, and I liked how it was all part of a grander scheme of things. The characters were interesting, and seeing characters change (especially Tieria) was really nice to see. The First Season, admittedly, was boring at first because of the whole intervention-of-the-week type episodes. To be honest, I don't think I started really getting hooked until the Trinitys were introduced. However, after that, I couldn't wait until the next episode of Gundam 00 came out. Unfortunately, the main reason I couldn't wait was for the hope of more revelations and story, and that didn't happen. Needless to say, this left me disappointed with the way the Second Season turned out. We did find out about the Innovators and Aeolia's true plan, but it just feels like there should've been more revealed.

Another positive was the animation. I think there's no doubt in saying that Gundam 00 is one of the best animated TV Anime Series at the moment. Everything was sharp and beautiful, and the openings and endings in particular were eyecandy. The music also contained some really nice tracks, like "Strike" and "Decisive Battle." Personally, I don't think it's the best soundtrack I've heard (Toshihiko Sahashi's Soundtrack for Gundam SEED still ranks higher for me personally), but Kenji Kawai certainly did an impressive job with his work for Gundam 00.

Overall, I'd say the series was strong in almost every area but the storytelling. The story contained some plot holes and certain aspects of the show weren't really revealed or explained all that well. Normally, I'd give a show like this a 6 or 7 out of 10 since I consider plot to be the most important part, but since the music, animation, characters, and fights were so good, I'll give this an 8. Not too bad, especially considering how SEED Destiny turned out.
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Old 2009-04-02, 02:14   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Papaya View Post
7/10
Battle scenes are the best in the series IMO.

Dunno, after watching 50 episodes of this show, I feel like the entire plot could've been done in a 25 episode series, and it would make the show better.
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Old 2009-04-02, 03:51   Link #52
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Originally Posted by Destinyblade View Post
I think people say the First Season was more realistic for a variety of reasons, though I suspect the main reason is because of the whole "00-Raiser spreads its GN Particles in massive amounts to allow people to understand each other somehow." Even though the series properly explained the whole thing, most people view it as a magical solution to the problem humanity faces. In other words, a majority see it as a cop out after painting what seems like a realistic view of the world. Probably people were expecting a more down to earth type of solution rather than the science fiction approach that was taken. It's funny when you think about it because Gundam is supposed to be a science fiction type of series, yet it's the science fiction that people hate the most about Gundam 00.

A second reason that people probably don't like the Second Season as much as the First Season is because Gundam fans view Gundam as a war type series. They believe it's more realistic if there's more death since war obviously will result in many deaths. If I had to guess, that's probably one of the reasons people like the UC Series, especially Zeta and Victory Gundam (I can't say for certain, but I'm willing to bet that that's one of the aspects people like about those two series). I'm guessing a majority were expecting a bloodbath (myself included) since it was the finale, but it didn't happen, so they're disappointed.

As for me, what I didn't like about Gundam 00 was how certain parts of the story were told and how there were quite a few inconsistencies in the plot. One of my biggest gripes is with Tieria. How is it that Tieria doesn't know about the Innovators and is shocked to hear about them from Regene, yet he somehow knows and tells Ribbons that they are not Innovators but Innovades? That's a rather big plot hole right there. I also don't understand how Hallelujah can just show up in Episode 25 of Season 2 and take on Hilling Care when the GN Particles from Trans Am Burst Mode are supposedly gone by that time of the battle. And like others pointed out, why didn't Ribbons use his clone army in the beginning of the series? And why use them as suicide missiles when he could've easily used them for the sake of overwhelming CB with numbers? It's these sort of things that go unexplained or are only hinted at in the show that I get annoyed about, and it makes Gundam 00 not live up to the potential it could've reached. Perhaps the staff intended the show to be the type where they would just show and not tell and allow the viewers to interpret everything, but I felt that Gundam 00 did this way too much. As a result, things like the clone army feel like they were pulled out of thin air and put in for the convenience of the writers.

I'm guessing some of this may have been explained in one of the many mangas for Gundam 00, or in an anime magazine in Japan, but that's another thing I got irritated with this show. I know why Sunrise and the companies involved in creating Gundam 00 do this (to make more money), but it's irritating that you can't enjoy the show to its fullest just by watching the show itself. This is the main reason why I was disappointed with the ending to the Second Season: it's rather inconclusive. The only way to find out its true ending is to watch the Movie when it comes out. Personally, I feel that a proper ending should've been made for the Second Season, and the movie be something extra that you don't have to watch to see the story's end.

Now, after that long rant of mine, I will admit that I did enjoy Gundam 00 in general. After all, how could I watch all 50 episodes if I didn't like some parts of it? I did like the whole concept; an organization using force to eradicate war? That's something I haven't seen before, and I liked how it was all part of a grander scheme of things. The characters were interesting, and seeing characters change (especially Tieria) was really nice to see. The First Season, admittedly, was boring at first because of the whole intervention-of-the-week type episodes. To be honest, I don't think I started really getting hooked until the Trinitys were introduced. However, after that, I couldn't wait until the next episode of Gundam 00 came out. Unfortunately, the main reason I couldn't wait was for the hope of more revelations and story, and that didn't happen. Needless to say, this left me disappointed with the way the Second Season turned out. We did find out about the Innovators and Aeolia's true plan, but it just feels like there should've been more revealed.

Another positive was the animation. I think there's no doubt in saying that Gundam 00 is one of the best animated TV Anime Series at the moment. Everything was sharp and beautiful, and the openings and endings in particular were eyecandy. The music also contained some really nice tracks, like "Strike" and "Decisive Battle." Personally, I don't think it's the best soundtrack I've heard (Toshihiko Sahashi's Soundtrack for Gundam SEED still ranks higher for me personally), but Kenji Kawai certainly did an impressive job with his work for Gundam 00.

Overall, I'd say the series was strong in almost every area but the storytelling. The story contained some plot holes and certain aspects of the show weren't really revealed or explained all that well. Normally, I'd give a show like this a 6 or 7 out of 10 since I consider plot to be the most important part, but since the music, animation, characters, and fights were so good, I'll give this an 8. Not too bad, especially considering how SEED Destiny turned out.

Realism is overrated....and frankly annoying, but that's just me. Such arbitrary expectations from some people....it boggles the mind, though of course they aren't yours and just an evaluation of other peoples. Yet again I find myself coming back to noticing some people focusing more on what the show isn't then what it is and evaluating it from that flawed perspective, but it seems you've avoided that pitfall too. Finally thanks for being one of the first people to actually call plot hole and have it turn out to be a fairly valid example. Cookie time.

Seriously nice to actually see somebody putting some thought into their criticism and making it more constructive then the usual borderline whining and meltdowns I end up seeing lately.
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Old 2009-04-02, 04:08   Link #53
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Animation Quality: 9 . Good characters , design .
Voice Actors: 10 . Well , the voices was good .
Script: 7 . The story was good but a few idiot too .

Total = 8/10 . Lacks more actions .
well , i'll watch the movie and see if it'll be the same .

(For me , Gundam Seed is better , but GSD isn't good as him. Except New Freedom who was a badass ! )
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Old 2009-04-02, 04:28   Link #54
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Originally Posted by Papaya View Post
7/10
Battle scenes are the best in the series IMO.

Dunno, after watching 50 episodes of this show, I feel like the entire plot could've been done in a 25 episode series, and it would make the show better.
Agreed, 00 may have some small errors plot wise. But I can't get over how all the battle scenes are so intense.
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Old 2009-04-02, 04:35   Link #55
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Originally Posted by winter45 View Post
WTF????
Yarr alot of people do like GSD .... but at the same time there are $hit loads of people that openly hates it. In animesuki is very clear how much opposition there is against it. Im one of them and funny enough there isnt no way as near as many people who hates 00 as much in ratio as GSD. (time will tell tho)
And I say f*ckin hate is not a feeling one would like to nurture, within him or in his environment... unless one is seriously messed up.

Overally, I enjoyed Gundam 00 with all its shortcomings. Season 2 even more than season one for some reason... Maybe more drama and haxx is what I am into at the moment...


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Old 2009-04-02, 05:06   Link #56
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Realism is overrated....and frankly annoying, but that's just me. Such arbitrary expectations from some people....it boggles the mind, though of course they aren't yours and just an evaluation of other peoples. Yet again I find myself coming back to noticing some people focusing more on what the show isn't then what it is and evaluating it from that flawed perspective, but it seems you've avoided that pitfall too. Finally thanks for being one of the first people to actually call plot hole and have it turn out to be a fairly valid example. Cookie time.

Seriously nice to actually see somebody putting some thought into their criticism and making it more constructive then the usual borderline whining and meltdowns I end up seeing lately.
This was a great show that had some questionable points but in the end it somewhat delivered.

Its funny that realism is being discussed in a show about giant fighting robots in space.

I wrote a wall of text but it seems like im just rehashing points that destinyblade already made.

One cant really complain about the writing because the actual dialog was pretty good, the main issue that people have is the execution of the denoument. It seems like most viewers were grounded in the universe that season 1established. The giant robot suicide attack and the fix everyone button. The suicide attack was the result of the staff running out of new harder scenereos for CB to get out of. The particle cloud that fixed everyone just kinda seemed like a lazy way to allow the plot to progress.

Kaoshin, you want people to look at what this show is which is what I cant really answer. The first season begins with the CB vs. the world issues, a set goal, and a somewhat defined universe. CB has the advantage because of the better energy source that they use which makes sense. Season 2 is set up with CB always on their heels running away from alaws and striking at their opponent when they have to. The last several episodes kinda move into a different sub genre with the jumping into the pastel world and finally the previously mentioned issues in the finale. So really, what is this series? is it a giant robot show with some tactics involved, the mysterious plot of an old dead guy, several perspectives into the effects of war, and pretty defined rules? Or is it a super robot show that slowly keeps pushing the previously defined rules?

I think Marina was used as a definition of the life setsuna wanted to have. He wanted to be like Marina (not with her mind you) and I think the series does a decent job showing that through their various interactions. After their time in the desert she wasn't much use to the plot and never really developed.

I think the staff did a great job of the development of Tieria, Setsuna, and for the most part Allelujah (he kinda got shafted towards the end because they told his story early on).

Im tired, ill expand more on points tomorrow. I just think that in your backlash against the bad posters (that get too entrenched in the plot that they ruin it for themselves and post angerly ill supported cop out comments), you tend to brush off legitimate criticism.
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Old 2009-04-02, 05:18   Link #57
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I do agree that one of the strongest points of this series is that characters actually evolve. And all of them, not only the protagonist.
I also agree with the fact that s2 is better paced than s1, which start was quite slow indeed.

Overall, a very good show.
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Old 2009-04-02, 09:46   Link #58
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Originally Posted by Bballmvp4 View Post
This was a great show that had some questionable points but in the end it somewhat delivered.

Its funny that realism is being discussed in a show about giant fighting robots in space.

I wrote a wall of text but it seems like im just rehashing points that destinyblade already made.

One cant really complain about the writing because the actual dialog was pretty good, the main issue that people have is the execution of the denoument. It seems like most viewers were grounded in the universe that season 1established. The giant robot suicide attack and the fix everyone button. The suicide attack was the result of the staff running out of new harder scenereos for CB to get out of. The particle cloud that fixed everyone just kinda seemed like a lazy way to allow the plot to progress.

Kaoshin, you want people to look at what this show is which is what I cant really answer. The first season begins with the CB vs. the world issues, a set goal, and a somewhat defined universe. CB has the advantage because of the better energy source that they use which makes sense. Season 2 is set up with CB always on their heels running away from alaws and striking at their opponent when they have to. The last several episodes kinda move into a different sub genre with the jumping into the pastel world and finally the previously mentioned issues in the finale. So really, what is this series? is it a giant robot show with some tactics involved, the mysterious plot of an old dead guy, several perspectives into the effects of war, and pretty defined rules? Or is it a super robot show that slowly keeps pushing the previously defined rules?

I think Marina was used as a definition of the life setsuna wanted to have. He wanted to be like Marina (not with her mind you) and I think the series does a decent job showing that through their various interactions. After their time in the desert she wasn't much use to the plot and never really developed.

I think the staff did a great job of the development of Tieria, Setsuna, and for the most part Allelujah (he kinda got shafted towards the end because they told his story early on).

Im tired, ill expand more on points tomorrow. I just think that in your backlash against the bad posters (that get too entrenched in the plot that they ruin it for themselves and post angerly ill supported cop out comments), you tend to brush off legitimate criticism.
To put it simply, S1 laid a line of realism (to a degree, as realistic as can be), with it's political involvement with the world leaders, no overpowered suits (level of h4xness for some of you), etc. S2 crossed that line and that's were many find the disappointment in S2 (and among other things).
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Old 2009-04-02, 10:27   Link #59
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To put it simply, S1 laid a line of realism (to a degree, as realistic as can be), with it's political involvement with the world leaders, no overpowered suits (level of h4xness for some of you), etc. S2 crossed that line and that's were many find the disappointment in S2 (and among other things).
I thought it's other way around? <_<
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Old 2009-04-02, 10:30   Link #60
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Since there seems to be an inordinate amount of interest in my taste in Gundam shows, I've revived the ancient What is your favorite Gundam series? thread, and moved the pertinent posts there.
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