(CR) Granbelm

[akumaten]

A bit messy, but I liked it overall.
Anna was talented yet so dumb. Was given an out, but she based her identity on magic
Nene was the smartest character in the show.
I give Suishou the "Nui Award" of wanting to see her head cut off.

[Archon_Wing]

@Triple_R I feel like the problem with this anime was that there were too much of an element of determinism that bordered on nihilism, with Magiaconawhatever deciding everything and it felt like nobody had any agency, as shown by the people that can't win no matter what. Even Shingestu's life was predetermined by them. (maybe she needs advice from Sisko on this ). They even noted that humans are going to just find some other means to make the world bad.

So there's a great degree of contrivance that she will definitely erase magic and that is that. It feels a bit hopeless in a way though I guess the very last scenes shows that it's not that simple. If those flowers really did bloom and Mango really didn't kick the bucket, I guess you really can't say magic is bad and all.

I mean, I really did like this anime as it really did feel like a blast from the past (espeically the ending narration), but the way they set up the story, it kinda led to an ending that couldn't satisfy everyone. I guess there are sacrifices to prevent it from being a reset button ending,but yeaa....

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

@Triple_R I feel like the problem with this anime was that there were too much of an element of determinism that bordered on nihilism, with Magiaconawhatever deciding everything and it felt like nobody had any agency, as shown by the people that can't win no matter what. Even Shingestu's life was predetermined by them. (maybe she needs advice from Sisko on this ). They even noted that humans are going to just find some other means to make the world bad.

I did get that vibe in the last few episodes. That the characters felt really constrained by the plot, in a sense. Like, every character had a specific role, and that was it. No character was allowed to seriously reconsider things and possibly change their minds. You're right that DS9's Sisko would have been good here.

I found it very interesting when Mango became aware of her doll status. Honestly, that reveal was brilliantly executed. The immediate aftermath of that was really gripping and good character drama. But I was hoping that this would result in something more like the classic Pinocchio story. Instead of, you know, Mango very calmly going to her death for the sake of Ernesta's wish...

I just find it really hard to buy into the sacrifices here. I just feel like they never made magic seem evil enough that anybody sane would be willing to die (or worse) just to get rid of magic.

I mean, I really did like this anime as it really did feel like a blast from the past (espeically the ending narration),

I liked how certain bits of it made me think of classic Gundam. It was nicely retro in some ways yeah.

By the way, nice talking with you again, Archon. It's been awhile.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The arguments made against magic in this show are almost entirely abstract and philosophical. It's almost all theory and opinion, really. And, ultimately, it wasn't very convincing to me.

I completely agree with this. Unless there's something that I missed (I can admittedly zone out sometimes while watching anime and miss a lot of details because my attention span is lol), the arguments made against magic were pure sophistry. All I remember is Mangetsu saying that humans shouldn't have the power to do whatever they want, and I say meh to that. That's completely true if mages use their magic for ill purposes, but so long as they're benevolent demi-gods, let them be demi-gods. "It's wrong because it's wrong" has never been convincing for me, nor have appeals to nature. If there's something that can be used to reduce suffering in the world, then take advantage of it and take a big giant piss all over 'nature.' Always hated when people draw lines in the sand and say that there's some forms of suffering that are sacred and should never be done away with. It's wrong to go "hmm magic could wish away cancer but that goes against nature so maybe we should just get rid of magic altogether instead?"

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I liked how certain bits of it made me think of classic Gundam. It was nicely retro in some ways yeah.

Umm, if I may ask, aside from the obvious references that I posted in previous page, which parts of the show remind you of classic Gundam?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

I completely agree with this. Unless there's something that I missed (I can admittedly zone out sometimes while watching anime and miss a lot of details because my attention span is lol), the arguments made against magic were pure sophistry. All I remember is Mangetsu saying that humans shouldn't have the power to do whatever they want, and I say meh to that. That's completely true if mages use their magic for ill purposes, but so long as they're benevolent demi-gods, let them be demi-gods. "It's wrong because it's wrong" has never been convincing for me, nor have appeals to nature. If there's something that can be used to reduce suffering in the world, then take advantage of it and take a big giant piss all over 'nature.' Always hated when people draw lines in the sand and say that there's some forms of suffering that are sacred and should never be done away with. It's wrong to go "hmm magic could wish away cancer but that goes against nature so maybe we should just get rid of magic altogether instead?"

Setting aside all the shit that happened before (with all the deaths and memory alterations), "magic" turned an angsty teen into a nigh omnipotent goddess. We're lucky magic is all she decided to take away.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

ou're right that DS9's Sisko would have been good here.

It came to mind in the last episode when Shingetsu briefly laments her life being decided....

Spoiler for Star Trek DS9:

Likewise, here, Sisko's life was apparently determined by the prophets is probably my least favorite part of the show because it just adding a depressing thing and ultimately even when I was young I asked "Does that really benefit the story at all?" Of course maybe punching out magiconatus ould have been anticlimatic.

I found it very interesting when Mango became aware of her doll status. Honestly, that reveal was brilliantly executed. The immediate aftermath of that was really gripping and good character drama. But I was hoping that this would result in something more like the classic Pinocchio story. Instead of, you know, Mango very calmly going to her death for the sake of Ernesta's wish...

Yea, while we could figure out Mangetsu was not normal, it was handed to her so brutally that we pretty much had to acknowledge her existence. "I suffer, therefore I am"? And indeed because she is a part of Shingetsu, she would end up agreeing anyways.

I just find it really hard to buy into the sacrifices here. I just feel like they never made magic seem evil enough that anybody sane would be willing to die (or worse) just to get rid of magic.

We've had a contest for 1000+ years that is basically unwinnable and people's lives get changed on a whim to suit it. Of course, maybe there could be a way to fix things, and that was never brought into consideration.

On Reddit, I guess the best theory is that magiaconatus was suicidal and just wanted someone to kill it off. Shingetsu would be the only one to just do it.

However, we also know Shingetsu isn't always the best person on these issues as she often just does whatever she thinks is best without caring about what other people truly feels. Actually, she just doesn't understand people at all. This is evident by the fact that her only actual friend ended up trying to kill her, and her other friend is made up. Do we really want her to represent humanity on what to do with this shit?

In the end I would say if you wanted someone to be in charge of the universe, neither Shingetsu or Homura are very good choices, for somewhat different but rather similar reasons.

By the way, nice talking with you again, Archon. It's been awhile.

Hmm, yes. I figured it would be a series like that, for certain reasons. Tthough I got interested by certain art.... Also, same writer of certain popular shows and that Re:zero director. I mean, it really does show. I'm surprised nobody made this joke yet.

(Re:zero spoilers)

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[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I haven't posted on Anime Suki in a long time, but this particular anime compelled me to do so.

I thoroughly enjoyed most of Granbelm. I felt it was a decently creative mix of elements and likely inspirations, that came together remarkably well. It looked good, the action scenes were solid, a lot of the direction was superb. And I still think all of that.

However, I was disappointed with Granbelm's ending.

I think the issue here is that anime of this type - you know, with a certain level of seriousness, and with a certain degree of supernatural/fantastical elements - tend to focus a little too abstract and lose sight of what tends to truly resonate with people. And I think Granbelm is now one of the more clear-cut examples of this.

Ultimately, I felt that Granbelm never effectively portrayed magic as this great evil that needed to be wiped out. The only people we see effected by magic are people directly involved in the mage battles, as there's no indication whatsoever of any "collateral damage". This is in sharp contrast to how magic is portrayed in many other anime (such as Madoka Magica and Fate/Series), causing it to feel actually rather mild and relatively harmless here in Granbelm. I'm not saying its totally harmless, certainly, but it just doesn't register to me - either intellectually or emotionally - as something that must be done away with. The arguments made against magic in this show are almost entirely abstract and philosophical. It's almost all theory and opinion, really. And, ultimately, it wasn't very convincing to me.

By extension, I wasn't a huge fan of Ernesta's wish, feeling that she had a glorious opportunity to do something more worthwhile here. Beyond that, the personal downside to her wish, what it would mean for her as an individual, is actually quite nightmarish, in my mind. I mean, who would want to exist, forever, as an imperceptible shadow, completely unable to interact with other human beings? Who would be willing to suffer such a horrible fate merely to get rid of something that seemingly only effects a small handful of people, really?

So yeah, the ending totally doesn't resonate with me at all.

One positive is that this ending makes certain anime endings look better to me in retrospect.

The final battle with DOPAMINE was the peak of this anime for me. After that it went downhill a bit, then went uphill again on Mango revealed to be a puppet on strings. And finally went downhill again with the ending... Ernesta is the worst character in the show for me, as she could have done plenty good with the power that she got her hands on, but decided to simply erase it because it's "evil". Erasing all other unfortunate victims with it.

Well, it could be argued that if the power went to the hands of someone twisted like Suishou.. humanity would be f*cked. But the power went to Ernesta who is a decent person, I still think erasing the magic is a waste.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Umm, if I may ask, aside from the obvious references that I posted in previous page, which parts of the show remind you of classic Gundam?

The way narration was used reminded me some of Gundam. And while the mecha combat was very flashy, there was also some real strategy and tactics involved. There was a "hide and seek", "shoot from cover" nature to a lot of the fights that made me think of some of the better Gundam fights (particularly Amuro Ray vs. Char Aznable).

I also just read over the obvious references you put up. Nice! Good to know there was some very clear-cut Gundam references as well.

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

If there's something that can be used to reduce suffering in the world, then take advantage of it and take a big giant piss all over 'nature.' Always hated when people draw lines in the sand and say that there's some forms of suffering that are sacred and should never be done away with. It's wrong to go "hmm magic could wish away cancer but that goes against nature so maybe we should just get rid of magic altogether instead?"

Yeah, that's also my own philosophical issue here with Ernesta's wish. I mean, a lot of the arguments that Ernesta and Mango made against magic could have been used against people trying to harness electricity back when that was gradually being invented.

"Hey, what do we need with electricity? We're meant to have periods of daylight and complete darkness. Besides, we have these lovely candles. And some really tasty meat-buns. What more do we need?!"

That's honestly how some of Ernesta and Mango's arguments come across to me, lol. So while probably unintentional, the last couple episodes of the anime give off a pretty strong luddite feel to me.

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Yea, while we could figure out Mangetsu was not normal, it was handed to her so brutally that we pretty much had to acknowledge her existence. "I suffer, therefore I am"?

Exactly. That's how it felt to me. That in feeling so distraught over her not being human technically that Magnetsu was actually becoming more human in arguably more meaningful ways. Like, Mango seemed weirdly empty to me until she started to experience all that existential pain over finding out that she was a doll. But then it seems like after going through a brief period of such pain, she just regresses to being purely a tool of Ernesta's wishes.

On Reddit, I guess the best theory is that magiaconatus was suicidal and just wanted someone to kill it off. Shingetsu would be the only one to just do it.

That's a decent theory. Maybe it's the best way to view this ending. It does make some sense to me.

In the end I would say if you wanted someone to be in charge of the universe, neither Shingetsu or Homura are very good choices, for somewhat different but rather similar reasons.

It's funny you mention Homura here, since...

Spoiler for Madoka Magica:

One of the anime endings I like more now is the one for Madoka Magica: Rebellion. While it wasn't what I most wanted to see, it still made decent sense to me, and Homura's emotional motivations resonated at least some with me, given Homura's strong feelings for Madoka. I mean, I can totally buy it and sympathize with it, even if I might have preferred it if Homura had made a different decision.

Originally Posted by Liddo-kun

Well, it could be argued that if the power went to the hands of someone twisted like Suishou.. humanity would be f*cked. But the power went to Ernesta who is a decent person, I still think erasing the magic is a waste.

Good points. That kinda sums it up for my feelings as well.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Ultimately, I felt that Granbelm never effectively portrayed magic as this great evil that needed to be wiped out. The only people we see effected by magic are people directly involved in the mage battles, as there's no indication whatsoever of any "collateral damage". This is in sharp contrast to how magic is portrayed in many other anime (such as Madoka Magica and Fate/Series), causing it to feel actually rather mild and relatively harmless here in Granbelm. I'm not saying its totally harmless, certainly, but it just doesn't register to me - either intellectually or emotionally - as something that must be done away with. The arguments made against magic in this show are almost entirely abstract and philosophical. It's almost all theory and opinion, really. And, ultimately, it wasn't very convincing to me.

I think you're missing the point a bit there. If they portrayed magic as more explicitly evil or negative, they would have made the conflict too clear-cut and would lose the message they were going for. Remember how Suishou told Ernesta that no one was hoping for magic to disappear, and how the world wouldn't change all that much after magic was erased? Those were valid points, but Ernesta did it all the same because her goal wasn't something grand like "saving the world." Her goal was just to make the world a little bit less painful. Some people would say that's not worth it. And it's okay to feel that way. But Ernesta's point was that humanity advances little by little, and this is her own tiny contribution to that "little" advancement. It won't change the world in a radical way, but she hopes in the long run people will be better off for it. That's her argument at the very least, and it's really compelling to me because it's so controversial in nature. Like I said before, some people would think it's not worth it, or even that it won't change anything. And all those arguments are valid. That was the point. The anime didn't want to deliver a clear cut statement, but leave an open argument.

By extension, I wasn't a huge fan of Ernesta's wish, feeling that she had a glorious opportunity to do something more worthwhile here. Beyond that, the personal downside to her wish, what it would mean for her as an individual, is actually quite nightmarish, in my mind. I mean, who would want to exist, forever, as an imperceptible shadow, completely unable to interact with other human beings? Who would be willing to suffer such a horrible fate merely to get rid of something that seemingly only effects a small handful of people, really?

Ernesta's character is very Buddhist in nature. She was willing to let go of material desires and attachments, without even knowing if the result would be worth it. I don't think I can relate to that, but I find it beautiful all the same.

I guess Madoka fans wouldn't like that. Madoka was a show in which the pros and cons of every action were pretty clear cut. Indeed, when Madoka asks her wish, it comes off as a very calculated wish, specifically crafted to trick QB and get something very specific out of it. That was interesting but a bit too idealized and convenient. Do you think when Siddhartha Gautama left his kingdom and his position as prince to look for a way to alleviate humanity's suffering, he knew that his quest and material sacrifice would be worth it? Of course he didn't. For all he knew, a bandit might kill him just a few minutes after leaving his kingdom. Ernesta's decision is a nice reflection of that kind of sacrifice and uncertainty when you don't know if you're gonna get anything worthwhile out of it. That makes it feel more grounded.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yeah, that's also my own philosophical issue here with Ernesta's wish. I mean, a lot of the arguments that Ernesta and Mango made against magic could have been used against people trying to harness electricity back when that was gradually being invented.

"Hey, what do we need with electricity? We're meant to have periods of daylight and complete darkness. Besides, we have these lovely candles. And some really tasty meat-buns. What more do we need?!"

lol'd and agreed on this. Erasing something that could help people does not make the world a better place.

[Kanon]

I didn't like the ending either, but I respect Shingetsu for sticking to her guns until the very end and never compromising, even if it really pains me poor Kuon remained dead and forgotten. However, one has to wonder: wasn't Shingetsu also a puppet of Magiaconatus? Not in the literal sense of course, but Suishou explained it manipulated her whole life, so she was basically shaped into hating magic. Magiaconatus being suicidal seems pretty likely. If that's the case, she was really just a tool, and to me that makes the ending even worse.

The only main character that got a good ending was Nenene when I think about it.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Yeah, that's also my own philosophical issue here with Ernesta's wish. I mean, a lot of the arguments that Ernesta and Mango made against magic could have been used against people trying to harness electricity back when that was gradually being invented.

"Hey, what do we need with electricity? We're meant to have periods of daylight and complete darkness. Besides, we have these lovely candles. And some really tasty meat-buns. What more do we need?!"

That's honestly how some of Ernesta and Mango's arguments come across to me, lol. So while probably unintentional, the last couple episodes of the anime give off a pretty strong luddite feel to me.

Another strike against their arguments to my mind is that Shingetsu and Mangetsu are magical prodigies, for whom magic is near effortless (because they're being helped by Magiaconatus). It's easy for them to make arguments like these because they never really had to work hard at magic to begin with.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

I think you're missing the point a bit there. If they portrayed magic as more explicitly evil or negative, they would have made the conflict too clear-cut and would lose the message they were going for. Remember how Suishou told Ernesta that no one was hoping for magic to disappear, and how the world wouldn't change all that much after magic was erased? Those were valid points, but Ernesta did it all the same because her goal wasn't something grand like "saving the world." Her goal was just to make the world a little bit less painful. Some people would say that's not worth it. And it's okay to feel that way. But Ernesta's point was that humanity advances little by little, and this is her own tiny contribution to that "little" advancement. It won't change the world in a radical way, but she hopes in the long run people will be better off for it. That's her argument at the very least, and it's really compelling to me because it's so controversial in nature. Like I said before, some people would think it's not worth it, or even that it won't change anything. And all those arguments are valid. That was the point. The anime didn't want to deliver a clear cut statement, but leave an open argument.

If Magiaconatus hadn't explicitly manipulated Shingetsu her whole life so she would come to that conclusion, I would have agreed with this.

When you recall that fact however, and all the manipulation Magiaconatus did to get it's way (all of which were left as is), this argument loses it's merits.

Is doing all of that for some admittedly minor betterment of the future really worth more than helping the people that were hurt by Magiaconatus in the present?

For example, what happens to the souls of the deleted girls? You mentioned the Buddhist themes of the show. Does that mean the deleted girls can never reincarnate again?

Originally Posted by Kanon

I didn't like the ending either, but I respect Shingetsu for sticking to her guns until the very end and never compromising, even if it really pains me poor Kuon remained dead and forgotten. However, one has to wonder: wasn't Shingetsu also a puppet of Magiaconatus? Not in the literal sense of course, but Suishou explained it manipulated her whole life, so she was basically shaped into hating magic. Magiaconatus being suicidal seems pretty likely. If that's the case, she was really just a tool, and to me that makes the ending even worse.

At least Kuon died doing something she actually believed in, what she wanted actually happened and her sister might kinda remember her every now and again.

Magiaconatus manipulated Anna so that Shingetsu would give up on the idea of using magic to help people and when it was done with her she was outright replaced, not even deleted.

Shingetsu was simply a tool in the end. It simply doesn't track to me how she so obediently goes along with it.

If you think of it in Madoka terms, imagine if that series ended with Madoka simply swallowing every lie Kyuubey told her despite everything and then using her wish to stop the universe's heat death or whatever Kyuubey wanted.

The only main character that got a good ending was Nenene when I think about it.

She was the only character who actually thought for herself

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Umm, if I may ask, aside from the obvious references that I posted in previous page, which parts of the show remind you of classic Gundam?

That scene where Anna just comes out of the blue and slaps the hell out of Shingetsu seems straight out of Zeta Gundam.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

"Hey, what do we need with electricity? We're meant to have periods of daylight and complete darkness. Besides, we have these lovely candles. And some really tasty meat-buns. What more do we need?!"

That's honestly how some of Ernesta and Mango's arguments come across to me, lol. So while probably unintentional, the last couple episodes of the anime give off a pretty strong luddite feel to me.

Seems to be quite a few anime like that where the implication is that humans are the real evil here and all of this crap just leads to destruction. (pretty much the whole UC Gundam timeline). I'd almost go as far to say it's a mecha thing.

That's a decent theory. Maybe it's the best way to view this ending. It does make some sense to me.

Yea, but to be honest, typically antagonists with this motivation often never work with me just because it often leads to "destiny" (eg, Writer going, yea it's going to happen, damn it)

On Homura....

Spoiler:

Well in the end Homura was following a single directive-- save Madoka, all else be damned even if Madoka herself disagreed. That being said, she did make an effort to make sure everyone else did well. This is pretty good for someone that is crazy and thinks they're evil by this point, making her one of the least evil evil people, no doubt. But both here and there you have people that have decided on our behalf long before things came into play and really never bothered to ask anyone how they felt.

It does seem like an issue here is that basically Shingetsu was really spoiled by magic. She's given all this power and favor and doesn't appreciate it. So she's more inclined to just give it up. To those that are less fortunate and have many issues to think about right now, well....

Magiaconatus did it!

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Seems to be quite a few anime like that where the implication is that humans are the real evil here and all of this crap just leads to destruction. (pretty much the whole UC Gundam timeline). I'd almost go as far to say it's a mecha thing.

So basically it's just an extension of anti war themes then.

[Anh_Minh]

It's hard to judge because we don't really know the limits of magic. Shingetsu didn't bring back Kuon, but was it ever possible to bring her back?

Also, what would have happened if she hadn't erased magic? Would there just be a few magicians with fancy but not that significant abilities running around? Or would we have a bunch of reality warpers rewriting history willy-nilly? What would happen if the reality warpers disagreed on something?

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Endscape

If Magiaconatus hadn't explicitly manipulated Shingetsu her whole life so she would come to that conclusion, I would have agreed with this.

When you recall that fact however, and all the manipulation Magiaconatus did to get it's way (all of which were left as is), this argument loses it's merits.

Magiaconatus might have wanted the same thing as Shingetsu did, but Shingetsu did it for her own reasons. This is explained in episode 11. When Shingetsu left Anna's house, for a moment she wished for a puppet that would appear to comfort her, and it was at that moment that she realized magic was a means to indulge in your personal weaknesses, a crutch for humanity. Even if you argue that Magiacontus was manipulating events around Shingetsu, the conclusion she reached and her decision were hers alone. Someone else in the same situation might not have reached the same conclusions, let alone take the same decisions.

Is doing all of that for some admittedly minor betterment of the future really worth more than helping the people that were hurt by Magiaconatus in the present?

That's for you to decide. I personally think it's worth it. But I don't expect everyone else to think the same, and I'm sure the staff didn't expect that either.

Also, we don't know of Shingetsu could have helped them. Magic is left vague so that all those question are kept in the air. Deliberately no doubt.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

It's hard to judge because we don't really know the limits of magic. Shingetsu didn't bring back Kuon, but was it ever possible to bring her back?

She was Princeps, so yes, she could have brought Anna and Kuon back, or at least made it so that people remembered they existed

Also, what would have happened if she hadn't erased magic? Would there just be a few magicians with fancy but not that significant abilities running around? Or would we have a bunch of reality warpers rewriting history willy-nilly? What would happen if the reality warpers disagreed on something?

That depends on what Shingetsu does with the magic. if she released it back into the world, then mages would have become more powerful, but not to the level of reality warping, which was something possible only because all the magic had been concentrated in one place.

If she decided to keep it, people would simply go on with the weak abilities they had from the start of the show.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Magiaconatus might have wanted the same thing as Shingetsu did, but Shingetsu did it for her own reasons. This is explained in episode 11. When Shingetsu left Anna's house, for a moment she wished for a puppet that would appear to comfort her, and it was at that moment that she realized magic was a means to indulge in your personal weaknesses, a crutch for humanity. Even if you argue that Magiacontus was manipulating events around Shingetsu, the conclusion she reached and her decision were hers alone. Someone else in the same situation might not have reached the same conclusions, let alone take the same decisions.

Shingetsu was a emotionally vulnerable little girl when she came up with that idea. Magiaconatus then spent the rest of her life manipulating her so that she wouldn't change her mind, even messing with people she cared about she would refute ideas that she had before that one. You can't really say it was entirely her decision at that point.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Shingetsu was a emotionally vulnerable little girl when she came up with that idea. Magiaconatus then spent the rest of her life manipulating her so that she wouldn't change her mind, even messing with people she cared about she would refute ideas that she had before that one. You can't really say it was entirely her decision at that point.

Magiacontus was testing her, not manipulating her decisions. Heck, Suishou revealed that Mangetsu's original intent (what she was programmed to do) was to betray Shingetsu, as part of a test. She wasn't meant to support Shingetsu's decisions. So it's not like Magiaconatus was manipulating every little thing to make Shingetsu take that decision. Magiaconatus' manipulations were meant to test Shingetsu's determination and principles. To see of she could stick to her decisions despite everything that was happening around her.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Magiacontus was testing her, not manipulating her decisions.

Suishou said Magiaconatus was doing both. Magiaconatus deliberately drove Anna insane with jealousy so that Shingetsu would think the cause was her using magic to help her back then, so she would deny the very idea of using magic to help people. It worked to the point that Shingetsu could not even conceive of saving Mangetsu with magic and had to have it pointed out to her.

Heck, Suishou revealed that Mangetsu's original intent (what she was programmed to do) was to betray Shingetsu, as part of a test. She wasn't meant to support Shingetsu's decisions. So it's not like Magiaconatus was manipulating every little thing to make Shingetsu take that decision.

And yet, at the end of the day, Mangetsu calmly gave up on life to make Shingetsu and Magiaconatus's dreams come true. How very...convenient.