Angel Beats! - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Don't worry, they will not die. They will simply be recycled in the next clone series Maeda makes, like the good archetypes they are.

You do realize that Maeda isn't actually responsible for the KEY anime adaptations or even for large portions of the original games, right?

[ninryu]

I just wonder - whom Yuri loves?

[Francismeunier]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

But I'm somewhat conflicted now that someone mentioned that Angel Beats! CAN be ruined by making it a 24-episode series. It made me think that this kind of "half-comedy half-drama" style prevalent throughout the series would just bore people if it was nine episodes longer, probably from the saturation of the comedy scenes.

I think it could have been better at 15 like Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien. It would have allowed more time for some development yet it would not be 24 episodes. Personally I think OVAs might also add some explanations about some characters too like Hisako and those twins.

Originally Posted by ninryu

I just wonder - whom Yuri loves?

I don't know but Noda likes Yuri for sure.

Originally Posted by Knightrunner

This episode was fast paced but awsome. I'm glad they gave Yurippe the spotlight she deserved
3. The shooting down the computer after she said humans don't wait 10 min

Yeah don't forget the EPIC triple weapon change at that part too. Yuri is the only one so far that did that!

[chill.]

so a little obvious what's going to happen next. in the last episode they have to do a reveal on kanade's past and also erase everyone. they also have to explain why kanade has access to the angel player software, and why she's so emotionless.

there's a reason that they decided not to say the programmer's name. they alluded to the programmer's amnesia, and yuri said that it wouldn't be fair to kanade if she became god. we've seen how otonashi has a connection to kanade.

either: kanade is the programmer, and she's still in NPC mode. she regains her memories, and she and otonashi leave the world together

or: otonashi is the programmer from long past, who became an NPC. the first time he came into the world, he met kanade and fell in love. however, kanade left first without him, so he waits for her to return again, becoming an NPC in the meantime. otonashi arranges it so that when kanade returns to the world, he resets so that he can meet her again. this time he has the chance to do things right, and leave the world together with her

most likely kanade is the programmer, and they used the he pronouns just to throw people off

[Marcus H.]

I don't know... it's too much info for one episode to reveal.
Plus, Otonashi is not a programmer.

[Kotohono]

Originally Posted by ninryu

I just wonder - whom Yuri loves?

I think it was the whole SSS, as her time with them let them become to feel like a family to her, that's the feeling I got anyways.

[Larvayne]

Originally Posted by Konakaga

I think it was the whole SSS, as her time with them let them become to feel like a family to her, that's the feeling I got anyways.

This.

Yuri grew to care for the SSS members (and not just them but Kanade as well) as she would have her younger siblings if they were alive.

Somebody I know thought of the possibility of Kanade being the programmer as well. It's an interesting thought but I feel it's highly unlikely. I don't think it's Otonashi at all either. To me, he's just the un/fortunate guy that got into the afterlife who set off change in motion by being willing to reach out to Tachibana Kanade.

[risingstar3110]

In a world where love releases shadows that suck away your soul, all characters shipping are immediately killed. Unless it's Yuri's, because everyone will help her to blast her way through, like how this episode played out


PS: therefore Otonashi's harem were killed by default (admiration and like/affection are possible through.... i guess)

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

In a world where love releases shadows that suck away your soul, all characters shipping are immediately killed. Unless it's Yuri's, because everyone will help her to blast her way through, like how this episode played out

And so the shippers were freed at last, and the afterlife became an eternal paradise!

I hope The Programmer and The-Guy-Who-Goes-Shirtless get freed in the last episode.

And speaking of which, I found it a little surprising that The Programmer is the only other person to get turned into an NPC. It would have made things a lot more unsettling if it had turned out that all NPC's were former humans brainwashed by the shadow script. (Well, maybe the adults would have to be custom-built, but besides that.)

Either way, instead of a god, perhaps everything was simply set up by humans who came before them, and the existence of AB's afterlife at all could be more along the lines of a phenomenon of young souls with regrets naturally collecting rather than an intelligent being's intent.

[risingstar3110]

If the programs have reset several times, then it's possible that many of the NPCs are used to be human...

Unless they are killed off when the NPCs turned to shadows....

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

If the programs have reset several times, then it's possible that many of the NPCs are used to be human...

The NPC mastermind said that just one other person [like the SS members] is among the NPCs...

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by KaneDragon

The NPC mastermind said that just one other person [like the SS members] is among the NPCs...

Let me confirm again.

The shadow turn human into NPCs. NPCs then turn into shadows. The world finally reset and the only human then would be the programmers...

It means all of the human are slaughtered? Or will they pass away? or turning them into NPCs means they are no longer human?

Next episode will mention this, maybe

[Haak]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Blahblahblah. Each one of the characters was there for a different reason. Mass-disappearing them killed their individuality and importance as unique characters. Your theory turns them to faceless Barbie doll mooks.

Um, who exactly was mass disappeared except for the GirlDeMo Band and a load of nobody members that weren't even given names?

It makes sense for the GirlsDeMo band to disappear together. They're supposed to be a group after all. It's how they've defined themselves. If anything, disappearing together only highlights their difference from the other members.

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Let me confirm again.

The shadow turn human into NPCs. NPCs then turn into shadows. The world finally reset and the only human then would be the programmers...

It means all of the human are slaughtered? Or will they pass away? or turning them into NPCs means they are no longer human?

Insufficient information, but don't take the "reset" that literally. If the programmer is the only other person turned into an NPC, then this is the first time the shadow script has been triggered. I assume that if the shadows hadn't been stopped, all humans and all NPCs would end up as shadows or NPCs, at which point the shadows would revert to NPCs and everything would be back to the "normal school life" setting, with no one around who remembers the shadow event (since the NPC's job is to act like everything's normal). There would be no humans, not even the programmer, since everyone ends up as an NPC.

Effectively, a reset. And the humans would be stuck as soulless NPCs for all eternity, unless the shadow process is capable of forcibly booting people from the afterlife, like Naoi tried to do (which doesn't seem likely, since the programmer is still "waiting" and "unfulfilled", and Yuri was able to come back albeit with help and her own determination).

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Key Board

I think the problem is with the script itself. It's just not a very strong base material.

It's designed by marketing checklist. I don't sense any substance or genuine inspiration at all, and it tries hard to be an all-round crowd pleaser by tacking on Maeda's usual melodramatic tricks (the hokey "I wanna get married" routine being the most shameless here) and goofy humor, while relying on a variety of popular hooks (The Matrix, Persona 4, Haruhi) to interest different viewers. In the process, they've attempted too much in a short timespan, allowing the manipulation and overall shallowness to show through.

That said, Angel Beats! is primed to sell like crazy, so it does seem that their attempt has paid off anyway. I have to admit that while I found Angel Beats! to be mediocre from Episode 1, it's a pleasant enough watch even if it's forgettable and poorly conceived at the end of the day.

Maeda still managed to throw in his typical tear-jerker scenes, which in some people's cases (such as mine) have worked nicely, and others, apparently not.

Yeah, this implies that the scenario planning strategy banks mostly on viewer psychology and not so much the overall quality of the work. For my part, while I felt emotion, the ploy was so shameless and suddenly forced that it left a negative impression at the same time. Maybe that's why those scenes are so polarizing.....a lot of people are easily swept along (even if they may see through it) while others are immediately put off by the artificiality.

Maeda wrote the script from scratch with a limited number or episodes in mind. Sure, in the end he had to cut some stuff but the core story is still there. Certainly the outcome is better than trying to adapt the script of a 60 hour visual novel into 12-24 episodes.

Unfortunately, he's well past his writing prime. Maeda is confident in his ability to hook his audience and make them cry, but I think he recognizes that he's hit a creative brick wall.

As a game writer, Maeda already retired after Little Busters! (he wanted to just supervise from that point onward) and after finishing Angel Beats!, he went on indefinite leave. That isn't the sign of an inspired writer, despite the PR spin.

[Archon_Wing]

Well, at least the ripoff of the Reloaded FAQ scene was better than the actual scene in that it made (slightly) more sense.

Of course, that doesn't say anything, since I thought the later two Matrix movies weren't very good anyways.

[dark998]

Originally Posted by TJR

It's designed by marketing checklist. I don't sense any substance or genuine inspiration at all, and it tries hard to be an all-round crowd pleaser by tacking on Maeda's usual melodramatic tricks (the hokey "I wanna get married" routine being the most shameless here) and goofy humor, while relying on a variety of popular hooks (The Matrix, Persona 4, Haruhi) to interest different viewers. In the process, they've attempted too much in a short timespan, allowing the manipulation and overall shallowness to show through.

That said, Angel Beats! is primed to sell like crazy, so it does seem that their attempt has paid off anyway. I have to admit that while I found Angel Beats! to be mediocre from Episode 1, it's a pleasant enough watch even if it's forgettable and poorly conceived at the end of the day.



Yeah, this implies that the scenario planning strategy banks mostly on viewer psychology and not so much the overall quality of the work. For my part, while I felt emotion, the ploy was so shameless and suddenly forced that it left a negative impression at the same time. Maybe that's why those scenes are so polarizing.....a lot of people are easily swept along (even if they may see through it) while others are immediately put off by the artificiality.



Unfortunately, he's well past his writing prime. Maeda is confident in his ability to hook his audience and make them cry, but I think he recognizes that he's hit a creative brick wall.

As a game writer, Maeda already retired after Little Busters! (he wanted to just supervise from that point onward) and after finishing Angel Beats!, he went on indefinite leave. That isn't the sign of an inspired writer, despite the PR spin.

That's nice and dandy, but you have to admit is is the same deal with Persona, Matrix and Haruhi (and many others) in the sense that are cliche-ridden works created with the main idea to sell, and that don't provide anything new.

And about the creative brick wall, it may be true, but not only Maeda/Key is affected by it, more like the entire anime/entertainment industry. Everything has been done, so the only options are: keep using the same concepts (again and again and again) or combining existing ones.

[roriconfan]

Originally Posted by dark998

That's nice and dandy, but you have to admit is is the same deal with Persona, Matrix and Haruhi (and many others) in the sense that are cliche-ridden works created with the main idea to sell

...only thing those were done far better

Originally Posted by dark998

and that don't provide anything new.

Does anything anymore? But they were still more memorable than AB.

Originally Posted by dark998

keep using the same concepts (again and again and again) or combining existing ones.

I can throw a hundread random stuff in a blender and press a button. The resulting food will not be good. Or I can make an omelet with bacon. Not too fancy but at least it's edible.
In other words, AB is not well told. It is well written. And the writting part was actually a blunt tracing of other works.

[dark998]

Originally Posted by roriconfan

...only thing those were done far better

Not really.

Originally Posted by roriconfan

Does anything anymore? But they were still more memorable than AB.

AB is not even done yet. The possibility of being more memorable than any of those is not zero.

Originally Posted by roriconfan

In other words, AB is not well told. It is well written. And the writting part was actually a blunt tracing of other works.

The written part is using and mixing common concepts, not tracing or copying because those other works don't have ownership rights of anything.

[Mirrinus]

So...was anyone else expecting Yuri to defeat the Conductor and the Composer in this episode and become the new Composer? Then she'd be able to take over the remaining Reapers and stop the Noise from erasing the rest of the-

Whoops, wrong story. Although that would be pretty awesome. Hey, we already have an afterlife purgatory based on RPG mechanics. Why not run with it?

(Seriously, AB! as a TWEWY game? I'd play it.)