NFL and College Football (American Football) Thread

[Dilla]

TJ Yates! TJ Yates! TJ Yates! UNC! UNC! UNC!

Woop! Woop!

[GDB]

And now the Texans will come to Baltimore. Good, good...

[Mr. DJ]

Originally Posted by GDB

And now the Texans will come to Baltimore. Good, good...

Spoiler for :D:

It shall be a fun game to watch

[FDW]

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

Spoiler for :D:

It shall be a fun game to watch

Yes it shall. BTW Detroit's beating New Orleans.

[JagdPanther]

Originally Posted by Dilla

I know nothing about O' Brien. All I know is that every New England Patriot assistant coach that have tried to take off on their own, whether it be NFL or college, have failed. Don't really understand why anyone bothers with them anymore.

Originally Posted by Drob_QB7

Personally I watch most of all the pats game and i don't see what was so special about O'Brien he seems like another product of Bill and Brady's system and talen like Josh McDaniels.

You two hit my concerns right on the head.

[Mr. DJ]

Loins ran out of gas...damn shame.

[GuidoHunter_Toki]

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

Loins ran out of gas...damn shame.

yeah it was pretty much well within thier reach for a while there. Heck if they actually capitalized on some of those turnovers they got, actually picked a few balls off that they should've picked off, and that dumb ref hadn't blown the whistle on that fumble so the Lions guy could have returned it for 6 it may have been quite the different game.

But hey when you don't capitalize on opportunities against a team like the Saints they'll hurt you.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

Loins ran out of gas...damn shame.

A low down dirty shame, cuz Breesilicious can be down right vicious^^....

NEXT WEEK on Breesilicious: A San Francisco treat...

[Snow_Storm]

Looks likes the Lion's out. Shame.

[Last Sinner]

The fact the Saints never had to punt all game says something. Detroit's tackling was pathetic and their corners were utterly destroyed. They had 3 golden opportunities to get interceptions on Brees and they spilled them all. You can't do that when Brees is in the form he is. Stafford and Johnson were valiant, but when Brees has an OL with three Pro Bowlers, then Colston, Graham, Sproles and Meachem to throw at - you have to take the 1-2 chances Brees gives you to burn him.

Well, Saints-49s next week will be huge. I'm expecting a fair war of words between two certain people on these forums.

As for tomorrow - please beat Atlanta, New York...

[Mr. DJ]

I don't see ATL getting by Big Blue.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

I cannot even begin to describe how ignorant you are. How the heck do you get off blaming a family of hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people between students, staff, faculty, and alumni over the acts of just a few people?

You know, you're calling me ignorant, yet you hit the quote function and then incorrectly paraphrased what I said. Just pointing that out... Like I said, not everyone is guilty, but am I going to lose any sleep over those players if the NCAA decided to slap a suspension on the program for a few years? So no... I'm not blaming anyone but the guys at the top. Unfortunately, the guys at the top run the show, and it's not that far of a leap to conclude the organization is rife with this kind of behavior. Your own choice of words, 'family,' no offense, but it all ties in to this very cultish environment you have cultivated over there in Penn State. And unfortunately for Sandusky's victims, this intense, passionate culture in my eyes was the direct cause of their desire to cover up the rapes. They wanted the glorious Penn State to live on, with the legendary Paterno breaking the record, etc, etc. How can YOU not see the connection? Do you think if my boss caught me raping a kid in the break room, then covered it up for a few years, potentially with the involvement of the CEO of the company and other officers, I'd just be fired and business would continue as usual? It'd drag the company into the dirt, and I don't see how this is any different. These weren't simply the acts of men operating for their own interests, they were collectively working together to cover this up for the sake of the organization.

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

I am very disappointed in McQueary's apparent lack of action, but no one can say they'd have done differently in his shoes. Sociological studies shows that what people say they'd do and what they actually do in traumatic situations are FAR different things. I am also disappointed in Joe Paterno for what I think may have been a moral (but not legal) failing on his part It does not change, however, what he did for this town and this University. He will always be loved for the incredible amount of good he did.

I don't know what I'd do in his shoes. But that's irrelevant. What he did was very wrong, and he allowed a child to be hurt right in front of his eyes. So yeah, I'm not sure I'd have been a saint in that situation ( I can't picture doing otherwise, but I'll cede you your point on sociology), but that doesn't change anything. The cover-up subsequently is what's more important, either way.

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

But what you're saying is a truckload of ignorance. You are blaming hundreds of thousands of people for something about which they had no idea until the entire public knew.

When'd I blame everyone? Again, in my own post, which you quote, I say not everyone is guilty, and that makes not one bit of difference. Scroll back up and re-read if you're choking on that idea so much.

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

Why does the University deserve to burn to the ground, along with the livelihoods of many?

Yeah, I'm the one spewing a truckload of ignorance. You made a sarcastic comment in which you exaggerated, tongue-in-cheek style:

"Penn State has decided to cancel its athletics program, but not immediately. To oversee the cancellation, Penn State has hired New England offensive coordinator Bill O'Brien, who will systematically run Penn State's football program into the ground over the course of several sub-.500 seasons with abysmal fan attendance. The resulting financial losses will necessitate the closure of all Penn State athletics programs after a few years. The plan is expected to be fool-proof and have a 100% chance of success."

Yet my reply, obviously exaggerated based purely on what I said, you interpret as 100% serious? If you want a contextually interpreted reading of what I said (since you're incapable, apparently ) "I wouldn't mind if the NCAA penalized Penn State, and I wouldn't care if you're correct in predicting that Bill O'Brien brings them a losing record next year." Happy? No one has to burn to the ground, don't worry.

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

How was the sports program "integral" to the complete destruction of several lives? I must have missed the part where players were involved or the tens of staffers in the Athletic Department who, like you and I, only found out about this via the news a few months ago.

Do you really need to even ask? You have an almost communistic idea of how responsibility works. Not every individual person had to be involved for the sports program to be at fault. The facts are facts, a football coach raped a kid on campus, in the sports facilities, it was seen by another coach, reported, covered up, and good ole' Sandusky is allowed a nice office on campus, even in his 'retirement.' Yeah, no, the organization wasn't involved at all, it was just rogue operators looking out for their buddy Jerry. Give me a friggin break.

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

How the hell are all hundreds of thousands of us alumni sleazeballs? What about the millions of dollars PSU alums have raised for child abuse charities since the news broke (not to mention the millions of dollars we raise every year for pediatric cancer research)? Or the tens of thousands of people who attended the candle-light vigil for the victims the Friday after this scandal broke? They're all sleazeballs in your broken mind.

The only sleazeballs are the ones directly involved in the scandal. But because they were at the top, they've now sullied the entire organization, thus giving the people in charge of hiring a very tight rope to walk. Any potential prospect looking to join, is going to think of the sleazeballs involved in the scandal, and thus the reputation is surgically hinged to the school at the moment. Getting an outsider doesn't solve the problem, but it shows you are looking for a fresh start. Stop taking everything so damn personally. Maybe you hated the big wigs, but the fact is they covered these rapes up directly to protect the sports program. And as a result, it's prudent and probably a good idea to look outside of the alumni pool for your next coach.

For the record, I hate what I perceive of this organization and what the irrational passion for football drove these men to do, helping to ruin those children's lives. It doesn't mean I hate you. I think you could live without the program for a few years. Those kids don't get a few years back, and the program, whether by only a few people's hands or otherwise, was unfortunately a direct player in the continued suffering of these kids.

Originally Posted by JagdPanther

People who watch the NFL more than I do... what are your opinions on O'Brien? I am not impressed.

Like Dilla said, he's just riding the Brady-Belichick train like all the other coaches that have left here. The only notable thing he's been involved in was an argument with Brady following a rare pick by Tom.

[JagdPanther]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

**snip**

I think you back-pedaled nicely there, actually. Yes, you did say "not everyone is to blame," but a lot of the language you used strongly suggests that the entirety of the University is blameworthy (for example, the "sleazeball college alum," thanks to the powers of unclear grammar rules, says to me that you think the entire University is a sleazeball factory, but it may also mean that sleazeball refers only to Sandusky).

For the record, I hate what I perceive of this organization and what the irrational passion for football drove these men to do, helping to ruin those children's lives. It doesn't mean I hate you. I think you could live without the program for a few years. Those kids don't get a few years back, and the program, whether by only a few people's hands or otherwise, was unfortunately a direct player in the continued suffering of these kids.

I appreciate that, I suppose. I am in vehement disagreement over what is perceived to be a fair and just punishment for this University. Letting this University burn to the ground does no one any good. This University, as a whole, wouldn't exist without football. We're in the middle of a cow pasture 80 miles from the nearest major city. Football grew this University into a top 50 national research university and top 15 public research university. Without football and without athletics in general, we'd be lucky to be a small-change tier 4 liberal arts school. I see your arguments on attributing blame to the organization, but in closing, I'll just mention a legal doctrine. I'm a law student, btw. One of my classes this past semester covered organizational crimes. Where some parts of an organization commit a crime, the courts still punish the whole (as you suggest). But, the courts are extremely wary of handing down what is called the "organizational death penalty." Since organizations can't actually "die" like humans can, it refers to a punishment so harsh that, for all intents and purposes, the organization ceases to exist as a functioning entity. The elimination of Athletics for Penn State, even for a few years, would be that effective organizational death penalty. I don't think you really think that should happen. Like I said above, for better or worse, this world-class academic institution would not exist if it were not for football driving the train. It's not a coincidence, for example, that applications and donations to the University-proper are highest when our major teams (football and basketball) do well (and that's an important distinction, because the Athletic department is separate from the University-proper, so donations to the University-proper are meant for anything BUT athletics). A lot rides on athletics surviving at Penn State.

Like Dilla said, he's just riding the Brady-Belichick train like all the other coaches that have left here. The only notable thing he's been involved in was an argument with Brady following a rare pick by Tom.

Yeah, that concerns me a lot. I don't think we need someone with a temper after all of this. I heard he was involved in a locker-room argument with Randy Moss, too, which led to Moss being traded.

[Dilla]

The Lions didn't give me what I wanted, but at least the Giants are.

[GDB]

A complete and thorough reaming, you mean?

[ChainLegacy]

I was hoping the Lions would knock the Saints off, you gotta give it to Brees, he has a ridiculously accurate arm, and one of the best O lines in the NFL, so he usually has a nice view down field despite being below average height as a QB.

Also weary of the Giants, who seem to be in their typical playoff form.

Now to see if Tebow can rekindle the spirit of god for a win over the injury ridden Steelers. i doubt it, but what Seattle did knocking off New Orleans last year, it's not entirely impossible.

[wingdarkness]

I feel like people are tempting me by hating on the Saints T_T...I feel like geauxing...

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I feel like people are tempting me by hating on the Saints T_T...I feel like geauxing...

Heh, I don't hate on them personally, if anything I'm just aware of the matchup issues they'd present to the Patriots, assuming they somehow make it to the Super Bowl.

[SoFarGone]

Tebow for once doing damage early in the game.

[GDB]

It's not unheard of. He put up good points against the Raiders, Patiots, Chargers, and Vikings early on too.