2009-07-27, 22:04 | Link #1301 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
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People agree means jack to me. All I care about are well-argued points and you've failed to offer any of them so far. Heck, I'm even giving you a chance to contribute some substance to your claims, but you've rejected it. Why shouldn't I treat your arguments as they deserve?
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2009-07-27, 22:20 | Link #1302 | |
Retweet Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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What more evidence is there? Obviously you disagree with the fact that Gundam SEED Destiny, quite easily defined and progressed Dully's relationship with the public as that of a person they supported by seemingly the millions/billions... GSD is an extremely flawed show...Perhaps the most flawed piece of work I have ever witnessed, but even within the $hit that is Morosawa's script, you'd have to be living in a pure oblivion to miss the driving subplot that was Dullindal siphoning off world-support, where by the end of the series, millions, if not billions of people were supporting him as the world leader...This $hit is implied... After that i have no clue what else we are arguing about as your main contention at some point appeared to be me citing "Support for the DP by these same people"... ******Awaits 1 liner question*******
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2009-07-28, 01:46 | Link #1304 | |||
yare yare..
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth (:
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His act of pointing a stick to annihilate people who oppose his ideals does not at all promote peace. It induces fear that makes people comply. You will never get lasting peace that way. Quote:
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While it may be true that Durandal had obvious support from people around the world, I seem to remember that that support had perished as soon as he announced Destiny Plan. Also, you agreed with brightman's idea that people were supporting Durandal personally. What supports both your claim? The fact that Orb and Scandivania were the only ones who opposed Durandal publicly doesn't mean that the others who didn't voice out would be supporting his plan personally.
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2009-07-28, 03:55 | Link #1305 |
Observer/Bookman wannabe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
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As The Prince put it so aptly, if a ruler has to choose between being loved and being feared, then he should choose being feared. Being loved is better, but if it cannot be achieved, then the ruler must at least be willing to go to the "being feared" stage. The ruler does no one favours if he has power but refuses to wield it.
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Last edited by yezhanquan; 2009-07-28 at 04:05. |
2009-07-28, 14:54 | Link #1306 | ||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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Ugh, let the multi-quote hell begin...
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Additionally I respect brightman’s opinion since I’ve read his posts for years and am convinced he’s probably forgotten more about Gundam than you and 4tran will ever know, but not just that he gave an explanation that easily coincided with the point I was making…I'm still scratching my head with a question-mark trying to figure how some can't...
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Last edited by wingdarkness; 2009-07-28 at 17:30. |
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2009-07-28, 17:28 | Link #1308 |
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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^If it wasn’t for the beyond disgraceful handling of his character in the 2nd half of the series (especially in ep 39 where he becomes Dr. Evil) he’d probably be in my alltime top ten Gundam Characters…Somewhere behind Treize Khushranada (Wing) and before Guin Lineford (Turn A)…He was elegant, charismatic, and brilliant…He had a romanticized view of the world, yet a practical understanding of it…He had an aura of confidence yet understated hubris…He was a really distinguished character with an underlining complexity, but since Kiracus needed a foil he was reduced to a static megalomaniac near the climax…I guess it could have been worse though, they could have turned him into Yuna, where he started off as a capable foil and somehow morphed into a cartoon feline in like 2 eps…
Dullindal was the $hit for the most part, and I would have gladly suited up for him and got my a$$ handed to me by Team Lacus^^…
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2009-07-28, 18:01 | Link #1309 | |
Senior Member
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That pretty much how I felt about him too. I totally could understand why Shinn liked him a lot. |
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2009-07-28, 23:19 | Link #1310 |
Observer/Bookman wannabe
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 38
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Count me in on the pro-Durandal wagon. In another setting, I really would want to see him succeed. He has brains, knows how to cover himself (most of the time anyway), and is the refined non-hero character which I don't see enough nowadays. Lest we forget, Le Creuset was impressed by him as well, although the men obviously disagreed with each other.
As for Shinn, let's face it: he is impressionable. He's not the sort to think deeply about issues.
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2009-07-29, 09:44 | Link #1311 | |
Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
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2009-07-29, 10:12 | Link #1312 |
勇者
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 34
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It is a book by Machiavelli during the Middle Ages and it shows what the ruler must do in order to maintain his power (or something along that line as I never read the book but learned about it in history class).
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2009-07-29, 11:36 | Link #1313 | |||||||||||
yare yare..
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth (:
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Uh huh. But you could always ignore me.
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But if you'd label me a Shinn hater, then yes. I am a fucking Shinn hater. He was a pointless piece of shit for main character material. Quote:
Anyway, don't be a baby. I don't stand for anyone here. That was a question. One you have not answered. Quote:
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But I would think that it is safe to say that whatever personal support Durandal had from anyone from outside of ZAFT perished as soon as he put the order of tyranny - to fire Requiem against the first to oppose Destiny Plan. If I may add - he claims Destiny Plan was for peace, but he waged war. Quote:
Since GSD supports your claims, try giving me specific evidence. Yeah, I'm that dense. Give me specific evidence from a specific episode. Quote:
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2009-07-29, 14:16 | Link #1314 |
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
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So, to summarize:
Weakness 4312: Durandal went on a complete about face from brilliant idealist leader to kicks-kittens world-conquering tyrant-to-be after 4/5ths of the season with little supported lead up or effective foreshadowing. That better? |
2009-07-29, 14:37 | Link #1315 | |||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Seriously, wingdarkness, you're an extremely poor debater because you're unwilling to substantiate any of your claims. Hence your posts are largely content-free spam. If you want more substantive comments to your posts, then you're going to put more effort into your posts. Just take a look at the post below yours: Terrestrial Dream's comment is very short, but it contains much more meaningful content than your last few posts. Quote:
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That's completely untrue. What actually happened was that Durandal was a ruthless idealist who had to make a major switch of plans because his original one had been utterly foiled. It only lacks build up if you refuse to accept that he was ruthless from the very beginning; and that would be the fault of the viewer, rather than the show itself.
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2009-07-29, 15:24 | Link #1316 |
Has a life IRL
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Somewhere in the Anglo-Saxon Sphere
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Nothing from the very beginning or mid-series suggested he was ruthless, because the one shadowy event he may or may not have had a hand in was never pinned to him in the series by anyone. Past the Lacus assasination debate, what else was there? Attacking the AA after it had continually intervened in ZAFT's affairs on a number of occasions? Invading Orb, who was harboring the architect of the war?
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2009-07-29, 15:27 | Link #1317 | |||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA
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4tran, whatever...I've lost count of how many debates I've whipped you in...I don't know though, maybe all the rep-points I get from debating you goes to my head...
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Neither Scandinavia or whatever other country or their leaders who are opposing Dullindal are shown or are conveyed to have an opinion against him…This is key because the script (however $hitty and we all know it is) wants you to focus on just these players in-terms of overall world leadership for this era…Of these opponents Gilbert Dullindal is shown to have more support on Earth and in Space than any of the entities against him (Which coincides with all of his planning throughout the show to get that end)…With no other real prevalent contenders in the arena of “world leader” , the subsequent influences and visceral evidence in his favor (Such as the rallies in his favor, the chants of his name in global support, Representation of leadership against Djbril’s fear and genocidal world campaign, etc, he is seen as the singular political leader against these things—Even the all-knowing Kira and Lacus basically tell the audience he’s the only leader of merit the world is following against them)…With all these items in his favor one would have to be dense to not see that the global support that was visually shown in various points of the show to elevate his status, were shown to personify his support across the board verses Team Clyne’s fledgling support….There is no one episode, one scene…It is done throughout the entirety of the show beginning with Gilbert Dullindal as just some new leader of the Plants, ending with Gilbert Dullindal nearly becoming leader of the world, if not universe by process of elimination… All the time it took me to type that, something which I understand without typing a letter…It’s beyond prevalent in the show…And that’s what is called an argument…It is not absolute, just a premise based on certain tangible and intangible elements found within the show that I believe should be easy to see and or figure out…Certain members need their human calculators to read 100% before they can accept any claim, but as we all know in debates you don’t win with 100%, you win with a preponderance…Some members might be too anal to understand that though…
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2009-07-29, 17:42 | Link #1318 | |||||||||||
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Onwards to dissecting your post: Quote:
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2009-07-29, 21:42 | Link #1319 | ||
yare yare..
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Earth (:
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Lol. It seems I need not reply wingdarkness much until he has replied 4Tran.
Nicely dissected, 4Tran. Quote:
Well anyway, I was just saying that if you don't like it, you don't have to reply not just me, but anyone that makes you multi-quote. Quote:
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2009-07-29, 22:35 | Link #1320 | |
Machiavellian
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Shape up your own arguments before criticizing others. Circular debates like the ones that have persisted in this thread are good examples of why Destiny is a failure. The show itself is schizophrenic, unable to keep its characters in-character, and suffers from fan and writer favoritisms. The destruction of Cagalli's character, the destruction of Shinn's character, the sudden switch from benign politician to aggressive 'scientist' for Durandal—if you acknowledge these as legitimate progressions in the story and plot of Destiny, congratulations, you are a true and devoted fanboy. You probably watched the show to cheer Kira and Lacus on. |
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