(L) Hachimitsu to Kuroba/Honey and Clover

[otaku in disguise]

I saw the screenshots from garten's site and the special episode looks absolutely funny...I swear my eyes were getting moist just looking at Morita's raptured face and both him and Mayama glomping the meat man...this might be the funniest episode yet

Spoiler:

although the return of Morita will be hard to beat IMHO.

[Itachikun]

Lol. Been dying to watch this....

Morita and Takemoto finally being able to eat some meat for a change.
________
WASHINGTON MEDICAL MARIJUANA

[MrProphet]

Ah-ha-ha-ha-ha! This was the best Hachikuro episode ever!!!

My favourite moment was when Mayama turned into a "shoujo manga character". That was pure gold! 8)

[ForeverGoNe]

i have a question in episode 16.. at the end where Takemoto-sensei says there are 2 pathways [to give up or confess] but he says theres a third but he doesn't say. Does anyone have an idea of what this 3rd idea would be?

[Grifis]

The third is the dead end, neither let go nor confess. Keep the feelings locked inside, suffer with it while standing aside watching and maybe helping without interfering romantically.

[EmptySoul]

The special is pretty funny. I really enjoyed it. I wonder when the second one comes out.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Radiosity

Hmm, I'll pass. A live action movie of H&C would ruin it for me I think. It's a bit like seeing a great game made into a shoddy hollywood movie (Doom, anyone? Or Final Fantasy, and pretty much every other game->movie ever, although Silent Hill looks like it could be very good...).

A large part of H&C's charm is the beautiful animation they used for it, and that would be lost in live action. Plus, the silly expressions that are possible in anime just can't be reproduced in live action (Mayama's facial expressions in episode 1 when Morita blames him for stealing the stuff to make the foot board thing for example ).

Agreed.... they'd have to find someone for Morita that had the facial contortion ability of Jim Carrey. Not to mention the movie would need a fair amount of slapstick. I won't rule it out --- might be interesting to see if they can transfer the spirit of the show.

[arias]

I've watched quite abit of anime, and to some extent I do agree that Honey & Clover is one of the best I've ever watched. It is certainly one of the most fulfilling, and certainly the most consistent. I started out as quite a skeptic, but I was taken right from the first episode.

The last third of the show was amazing, and the music always great. I can't get over how awesome the first ED is. By its end, I couldn't believe it was over... oh god.. T__T I feel like I should talk more about it; it certainly deserves my attention. But I need to pack up for a trip to NY.. ;; I'll give a rambling, bambling, huge post when I get back..

Just as a short note; I thought the anime handled most issues very realistically. I mean, despite its comedic side and how certain things were stretched, the drama side was tackled with alot of heart. And I loved all the characters, and identified with Takemoto the most. I've been lacking direction the past few years, and am at roughly the same age as he is.. and whatever I choose to do, even in art, there are always people around me of incredible talent far and high beyond my reach (Hagu + Morita). I never disliked any of the other characters, and understood them.. Although I was mildly adverse to the Ayu-Nomiya possibility.

I don't think ANY shoujo fan could not like Honey&Clover.. Probably the best "growing up" / "coming of age" sort of anime or show. Ai.. I think I'll even watch it again.

[arias]

Oh, and because I only chanced upon this series two days ago (and watched it in two days), I didn't follow the thread before Asuki experienced its nuclear fallout.. if you guys would post your considered thoughts/sentiments to share with me, that would be great. : )

[Vexx]

The only thing I can add to comments about this well rounded show with a nice musical score is that I wish more anime series would place their settings in the university setting... it just really opens up the plot options. I mean *real* plot options ... not just who has the magic saber or can summon demons, but the kind of stories we saw in H&C.

[100%Wool]

Well, I loved Honey and Clover and it gets "Number One Anime of All Time" from me too. I just hope a box set makes it's way to the UK in due course (or I make my way to Japan to get a box set ).

I felt that H&C was a series that everyone can relate to in some ways, and found a it a real pick-up as well as Takemoto's activities towards the end fairly inspirational.

I hope there isn't a second season, and I probably won't watch the film. I loved the series and felt that the ending was perfect - I don't want to see any more now, and I don't think the series would work for me if it re-started again. (Incidently, I don't like Paradise Kiss that much at the moment - don't get me wrong, it's good but not great).

Favorite Character: Takemoto (Just think he's generally great).
Favorite Couple in the show: Ummm... Probably Mayama and Yamanda.
Favorite BGM: Waltz Piano/Violin Tune
Favorite moment of the show: Pretty much all of it - esp when Takemoto returns at the end.

Final comment: I preferred the second 2/3 of the series as opposed to the more humourous 1st 3rd.

[Itachikun]

The reason why Honey and Clover got such high expectation is because it deals with real life and everyone can connect themselves to it.

Me, I especially love the music. Never get sick of it.

Also GTO had the same impression when it first came out, it was a huge hit. Im looking forward for a second season...
________
Vapir One

[arias]

Back from NY. And so I shall start on my long babble to you fellow H&C fans (although I'm now curious why the emoticons are a gay grey now).. NOTE THAT THIS POST WILL INEVITABLY CONTAIN SPOILERS, OR POTENTIAL SPOILERS.

I do think that Honey & Clover is one of the best anime I've ever watched, but it could be influenced by the fact that I quite strongly identify with Takemoto and even the contextual frame of the show (art). There's an earlier post in this thread where a viewer didn't quite "get" the show, and I noticed his age was 16.. he himself suggested that perhaps he wasn't quite that age to appreciate H&C yet. But of course, I think H&C also appeals to a slightly more specific, more sensitive sort of audience..

Shoujo Roots, Shounen Influence
The H&C anime was adapted from the manga (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ency...a.php?id=5669), which seems to be extremely shoujo in art style. You can also see this influence in the anime, with the somewhat more feminine or metrosexual looking leads, as well as various effects (the flowers upon the introduction of Hagumi).. As such it could initially turn off some potential viewers.

But upon watching, you realize that H&C does have a somewhat "masculine" or at least, "neutral" outlook. I think this was largely facilitated by the fact that H&C anime was directed by a male, and its screenplay and such were also written by males. Note that this is not a sexist comment --- in a TV interview regarding Saishuu Heiki Kanojo, the artist noted that having a female director (Mitsuko Kase) helped to frame the love story with a more feminine touch. He claimed that this helped to communicate the sensitive parts of the story, or at least give it some female influence that was previously missing (since the mangaka was a male).

So I really didn't notice the "shoujo" factor in H&C all that much, although now upon reflection they were littered all over the place.. cute tiny little girl with flowers, thin male useless leads (Takemoto) with thick framed spectacles (Mayama) or even squealing "Oiii~~" in schoolboy uniform (Morita). Ahh. Gives me the shivers Still, H&C anime was really a distinct cohesive storytelling experience with no real inclination to shoujo-ness. I've only really watched Aishiteruze Baby, and compared to that, H&C is farrrrrrrrrrrrrr from shoujo. But maybe it's those genre-conscious viewers who let their biases affect their viewing.

As such, the show never really turned me off with any over-emphasis on the "beauty" of the male leads.. they were never given any fan-servicy face shots or shots that panned across their bodies ( ). It really.. felt very decent. I'm guessing the manga would be *much* more "shoujo" in its feel.. and I think that H&C in this form, is perfect.

Art & Animation

There is an earlier post in this thread complaining about the quality of the animation, and I realllllly have no idea why. I am *quite* particular about the quality of my animation, and I have shuddered at sequences found in Samurai 7 that other posters have lauded as a looser, more artistic style.

What I think is that H&C is really quite wonderfully animated. Or at least, the quality of its animation was always consistent, and it always delivered whatever it should have delivered -- emotions, atmosphere, tones.. etc. It doesn't reach the amazing animation standards of AIR tv, but why should it? It needs only to communicate its intentions to the viewer, and facilitate the telling and framing of the story. This, it does incredibly well. Nowhere throughout the series did I think "this shot could have been done better" or anything along those lines. In contrast, I do this even with anime that I rate highly, like GITS:SAC (which suffers from inconsistent animation).

I was quite suprised with the choice of the OP and ED having no animation at all.. And of course, it could have been related to the budget. Regardless, they don't matter to me.. I usually skip OPs and EDs anyways. I often choose to listen on to H&C EDs, though, simply because I really, really love the first ED (Waltz). Of course, I heard the full song and it wasn't that good (poor bridge and solo.. ew), but in context of the show.. man. It was FAN. TAS. TIC. I also grew to love the simple ED animation of the ferris wheel.. and also its snippet of the next episode.

Humor & Drama
As has been discussed, H&C is a comedy/drama. Its comedic side, I find, is terribly funny. I found it entirely entertaining, despite some or even most of it having been used often in other anime/manga. But anyways, I have always thought that rating heavily on originality is a mistaken idea: if an idea is executed brilliantly, it satisfies and moves, even if it's cliche. In H&C, they were always, always, always aptly executed. Everything fit into its place.

A poster mentioned how he preferred the latter 2/3 of the show which was more serious, rather than the first 1/3, which was more comedic. This is to be expected of a "coming of age" anime like Honey & Clover.. actually, most anime, even those that begin very humorously, usually end with a more serious/dramatic frame. H&C is mainly about Takemoto's growth (and of course, about the others as well).. and it should be obvious that the earlier, funnier and more energetic 1/3 helps to pull in the audience by making the characters more endearing and lovable. Only after an attachment is formed between the viewer and the on-screen character, does the viewer take an interest in the character's well-being. This, H&C accomplished well, and depending on how you identify with what character, exceedingly well.

In particular, I felt Takemoto's plot was handled beautifully, and reminded myself of my own "coming of age" experiences.. particular parts of the dialogue and script really connected with me. I thought it was brilliant, and that the director must have put alot of heart into this. I felt those were sincere thoughts, the feelings of the director or other staff were reflected by Takemoto's discussion of his quest.. they were honest. Wisdom revealed piecemeal, and not cliche-ly spat out. I am very thankful.

Plot Threads

Most plot threads of H&C anime were satisfyingly concluded. And those which were not often reflected the nature of the plot thread itself. For example, we have Yamada's constant crush on Mayama reflected by her and her little plant that had a broken stem, and continued to suffer when the broken portion was not removed (which all, I thought, was a brilliant analogy). The introduction of Nomiya was quite annoying to me, but I loved how this thread was treated at the end of H&C...

At the festival, Yamada tries to get another bunny (like the previous year) by throwing balls.. Mayama watches, but unlike the previous year, he instead tells Takemoto to win the plushie for Yamada. Also, towards the end of H&C, there is less and less focus and mention of Yamada's feelings for Mayama, which could suggest the fading of such feelings (and implies its transference upon Nomiya, possibly). The last episode also shows Mayama being able to "let go" of Yamada, or at least, let HER let go of him. I am of the mind that Mayama constantly interferred with Nomiya's attempts to get together with Yamada because he -did- care in some degree for Yamada, and in some way he was jealous. Mayama denies this throughout, but that's what I think anyways.. As such, the last episode ties this up beautifully by the absence of Yamada's thoughts of Mayama (indicating the fading of the feelings.. or the beginning of detachment) and also Mayama's choice to care for her passively (through Takemoto).

The Takemoto/Hagu/Morita thread is much more complicated. His confession in the last episode was NOT an indication of the birth of a relationship, in my opinion. I thought it was really an indication of Takemoto's growth. Of his coming of age. Some would probably argue otherwise using Hagu's tears as an argument, but I think that that, along with her words (Thank you for coming back, Takemoto-kun) were tender hints, and nothing more. Regardless of what happens, none of that is the -point- of the last episode. The point was Takemoto. Takemoto ep 24.. vs Takemoto ep 1. It was all about him, and his change.. The suspicious absence of Morita in the triangle still suggests that their triangle remains unresolved. The final scene; the party in the apartment, also shows no signs of Hagu being with either of them... I think that their triangle is deliberately left open to the viewer's own fantasy, and ep24 was really Takemoto's 'release'.

Also, as reflected by one astute poster, the "third" option that Hanamoto sensei (Shuu-chan) never discusses was probably not letting go and not trying. The state of keeping it all inside.. where things are suspended in permanent limbo. This could reflect possibly, his feelings for Rika, but more generally his attitude towards Rika and Harada (Hanamoto became an art teacher to hold onto those feelings).. This thread gets ZERO treatment towards the end. Because it is what it is.. an unresolvable, always underlying but somewhat invisible problem.







I think I've discussed enough.. I could go on more and more about the music and such But I'm tired.

I really loved Honey & Clover. More people should watch it. Get your friends to

[beansprouts]

Originally Posted by EmptySoul

The special is pretty funny. I really enjoyed it. I wonder when the second one comes out.

Any chance of subbing the special?

[Vexx]

We can hope our favorite subbers of the series are already planning it.

[ShikaShika]

Acording to their forums, they are planning to sub the two specials, unless H&C is licensed by then.

[aliensporebomb]

I had the opportunity to see this series in its entirety two days
ago and am still reflecting on it. So many good moments, great
character development and realistic situations. It's just amazing
something like this managed to come out. I'd love to see the OVA
episodes since there are still some unanswered questions.

Great moments:
-The Women's Cooking Club - hysterical. The "Pump Mint" had me
chuckling and the later bizarre permutations (Cinnamon Chicken?
Chocolate Curry?) had me laughing like an idiot. Half of the fun
was the reactions by the male characters to Ayu and Hagu's odd
concoctions.

-The "Extreme Twister" game - the never say die reactions by
the men and the shocked expressions on the spectators faces
was one of the funniest things I've ever seen - it just kept
escalating more and more into the absurd. Brilliant.

-The extended bike tour by Takemoto - I'm a cyclist myself and
have gone on 100 mile rides. They perfectly captured the zen
essence of riding until you can't ride anymore, the solitude of
the road, the constant need for food, the heat haze rising off
the road, the wind and the sun - incredible. This was awesome
and I'm really glad they included this in the story, it added a
special element. It made me also sometimes question why I
ride away too. I suppose my answer would be the same as
Takemotos.

And:

Spoiler:

-The Mayama-Rika relationship. The point where Mayama says
"the moon calls for her but I am covering her ears" had goosebumps
standing up on my arms - this isn't a man just hopelessly pining for
a woman who isn't interested in him, it's a man who refuses to
allow the woman he loves to slide into despair (and possibly worse)
from guilt at total cost to himself. He can't move on nor can he
entertain possibilities of other relationships because he refuses
to risk it. Unbelievable depth from an animated series. And I was
really shocked when after she fell he tucked her into bed and later
kissed. I couldn't believe my eyes. His almost-fatherly way he was
looking out for Ayu suggested that if things had been different and
Rika wasn't around he may have attempted a relationship with her
but this whole segment of the show had me amazed.

Shuu-chan struck me as a man who had found what he was looking
for in life but it just never worked out for him - it's possible Rika could
have been a romantic interest at some point but she's so shattered I
don't see it happening. His stepfatherly way of watching over Hagu
and being sensei masked someone who seemed to be living thru
others. A cool character. Again, unanswered questions.

Those looking for multiple gundam style robot action look elsewhere
but I find this kind of series more compelling than just about everything
else.

The writing in this show was just incredibly good, I give it five
stars - the voices, the character design, the MUSIC (I could
write a whole thread on the music alone) and I'm really happy
to have discovered this purely by reading the beginnings of
this thread and I had to go check it out. So Thank You to all
who posted here thus far.

Oh, and as for Hagu-chan and Takemoto?

Spoiler:

I think things will work out but I would guess she will never
entirely be a "normal" partner for anyone. Her upbringing and creative
drives have significantly changed her from a normal person to an
extraordinary one although the trust between them that was nurtured
over time and his confident confession to her had an unexpected reaction
(at least to me) which may or may not indicate something more for the
future.

The ambiguity here I think could let the viewer determine for themselves.

What a great series. I'll shut up now.

[crealism]

hey guys sorry if this has been asked before, but do you all know where I can get english subs / script for chapter L? my japanese is . and is it true the final special episode will only be released in april 06? thank you!

[touchthesun]

Originally Posted by ForeverGoNe

i have a question in episode 16.. at the end where Takemoto-sensei says there are 2 pathways [to give up or confess] but he says theres a third but he doesn't say. Does anyone have an idea of what this 3rd idea would be?

Not sure if anyone pointed this out yet, but Just incase people get confused, the person who gave Yamada advice about the "two pathways to give up or confess" was actually Shuu-chan aka Hanamoto Sensei =)

[touchthesun]

Originally Posted by crealism

hey guys sorry if this has been asked before, but do you all know where I can get english subs / script for chapter L? my japanese is . and is it true the final special episode will only be released in april 06? thank you!

*sigh* yeah we're all waiting for the English subs for chapter L. I hope C1 or Solar will a sub for it soon.

By Final episode, do you mean the other special? This particular episode (Chapter L) came out with DVD 5, I haven't heard any confirmation as to which DVD the other special is going to come with, but rumors say it will come out with the last/9th DVD, which is scheduled to come out April 28th.

I wonder though what's instore for that special episode o.o. Anyone?