Let's Re-Watch Macross Frontier (TV) Together!

[Father Hentai]

Well, I admit I had the same impression but thinking a second time I don't think it is that bad. Is there a point what you want to say if you are disappointed? I think spending the most time together is more important than already being in the same household. They are not that long together that sharing the same household is such a priority.

I am just saying this because in my personal life my girlfriend and I moved together after five years (because of her study and my carreer plans (military/civil)).

[magnuskn]

I guess I just wanted Sheryl to be as happy as possible during that time intervall. Also, it was nice to point out to Ranka fans that she was returning to a situtation where Sheryl and Alto already were living together.

Spoiler for Movie stuff:

But that doesn't matter now, as we already know now how the triangle was supposed to end.

[Father Hentai]

She seems quite happy happy with the current moment and the only moment where she was unhappy again was at the end of episode 23 when she heard part of the conversation between Alto and Klan.

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Father Hentai

She seems quite happy happy with the current moment and the only moment where she was unhappy again was at the end of episode 23 when she heard part of the conversation between Alto and Klan.

Is this going somewhere...?

[Father Hentai]

Yes, to episode 24

[magnuskn]

Well, I'd say it goes to after episode 25.

Eh, knowing that Sheryl and Alto are meant to end up together makes shipping arguments much easier.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by magnuskn

Well, I'd say it goes to after episode 25.

Eh, knowing that Sheryl and Alto are meant to end up together makes shipping arguments much easier.

Don't know you whom you are pointing at the moment with the shipping argument but I supported a harem relationship at the end even though it is AxS at the end.

[magnuskn]

Spoiler for Movie stuff:

Nah, my point is that it is easier to be less upset about Sheryl and Alto not living together for that time when one knows that they will be together after the end of the show.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by karice67

^

I don't have Central's, but THORA's is pretty accurate for that scene, IMHO. The whole conversation is fairly ambiguous, especially if you think they're just talking about the two girls at that point (hint: they're not).

RC had a pretty good discussion about Alto for this episode, with some excellent contributions from AS members. Particularly recommend this one by musouka. (I wonder if she posted it here back when the episode aired...)

edit: ah, and the alcohol thing. "Even though you might say that's not alcohol" (literal).

That line about whatever they were drinking not having alcohol is really dumb considering that everything else indicates that is...

I seem to have a problem with forgetting what I thought of major events in my favorite series when I first saw them. This can be kind of annoying because I know my opinions on series often change with rewatching, most of my top favorites weren't instant favorites and grew on me with rewatching.

It's interesting to note that a lot of Ranka/Alto fans seemed happy with what they thought Alto's actions in this episode implied. Personally I think it would reflect really badly on him if his feelings for Sheryl turned out not to be genuine and he abandoned her to go after Ranka instead considering the situation Sheryl is in. Granted this is coming from someone who is a Sheryl fan, but I'm not exactly a fanatical one (I was originally an Alto Ranka fan and only switched to being an Alto Sheryl fan after I'd rewatched the series a couple times).

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

That line about whatever they were drinking not having alcohol is really dumb considering that everything else indicates that is...

Unless it's a 'non-alcoholic' champagne ala non-alcoholic beer? I assume they added it because, in Japan, you're not allowed to drink til the age of 20...

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

It's interesting to note that a lot of Ranka/Alto fans seemed happy with what they thought Alto's actions in this episode implied. Personally I think it would reflect really badly on him if his feelings for Sheryl turned out not to be genuine and he abandoned her to go after Ranka instead considering the situation Sheryl is in. Granted this is coming from someone who is a Sheryl fan, but I'm not exactly a fanatical one (I was originally an Alto Ranka fan and only switched to being an Alto Sheryl fan after I'd rewatched the series a couple times).

I'm actually glad I wasn't around back then - though I agree with you in that it's pretty amazing what a few years, interviews, a rewatch and several movies can do to change one's view of everything. I'm so much happier with how Kawamori et al wrote the characters now than I was two years ago, though I'm still annoyed about Michel...

Though speaking of the movies, @magnus, I thought we agreed to talk about those without spoiler tags only in the movie thread?

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by karice67

Though speaking of the movies, @magnus, I thought we agreed to talk about those without spoiler tags only in the movie thread?

Ooops. Corrected.

[Father Hentai]

Originally Posted by karice67

Unless it's a 'non-alcoholic' champagne ala non-alcoholic beer? I assume they added it because, in Japan, you're not allowed to drink til the age of 20...

last makes more sense. non-alcoholic beer or non-alcoholic champagne won't make you boozed.

[Zenithlea]

Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67
Unless it's a 'non-alcoholic' champagne ala non-alcoholic beer? I assume they added it because, in Japan, you're not allowed to drink til the age of 20...

last makes more sense. non-alcoholic beer or non-alcoholic champagne won't make you boozed.

Yeah well, in the future maybe they can drink before 20?
Cause for non-alcoholic beverage, she still looked pretty boozed up.

I actually thought it's just the translation that could have been misinterperating since technically in japanese, "sake" could be construed as the actual drink of rice wine itself or a vague term for alcohol. (if I'm not mistaken) So when Alto said it wasn't "sake" maybe he meant the rice wine. (and that stuff has a higher alcohol content compared to just some bubbly.)

[magnuskn]

Well, she simply could have eaten and drunk too fast, that makes people sleepy, too.

[karice67]

Hm...learn something new everyday...from Wikipedia:

A non-alcoholic beverage is a beverage that contains less than 0.5% alcohol by volume....

Sodas, juices, and sparkling cider contain no alcohol, but non-alcoholic beer and non-alcoholic wine undergo an alcohol-removal process that may leave a small amount of alcohol.

So perhaps Sheryl (1) drank most of that bottle, AND (2) is a pretty weak drinker... Drinking most of it before eating would only have exacerbated the effects.

[Zenithlea]

Lol, could happen in the world of manga and anime I guess. You always see the really exaggerated low alcohol tolerance gags where a drop of it practically knocks the person out.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by karice67

Unless it's a 'non-alcoholic' champagne ala non-alcoholic beer? I assume they added it because, in Japan, you're not allowed to drink til the age of 20...

That might well be it. Anime companies seem to really want to avoid admitting underage drinking in their shows -I'm remembering the "high quality imported juice" that showed up towards the end of Minami-ke). I wonder why that of all things is considered such a big deal though considering all the other stuff that happens in anime...

Originally Posted by karice67

I'm actually glad I wasn't around back then - though I agree with you in that it's pretty amazing what a few years, interviews, a rewatch and several movies can do to change one's view of everything. I'm so much happier with how Kawamori et al wrote the characters now than I was two years ago, though I'm still annoyed about Michel...

In spite of all the support the pairing has received lately I actually worry a bit about whether my current shipping bias towards Alto/Sheryl may be distorting how I see things. I've taken a lot of pride in my ability to remain relatively objective when analysing things rather than simply seeing everything the way I want it to be.

Gyah, I think I need to try to talk more about things other than my favorite ship.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

In spite of all the support the pairing has received lately I actually worry a bit about whether my current shipping bias towards Alto/Sheryl may be distorting how I see things. I've taken a lot of pride in my ability to remain relatively objective when analysing things rather than simply seeing everything the way I want it to be.

Gyah, I think I need to try to talk more about things other than my favorite ship.

It's actually pretty difficult to talk about Macross Frontier without talking about the triangle, because Alto's development is built up around his relationships with Sheryl and Ranka. Even his changing feelings about the Frontier throughout the series are tied to his interactions with both girls. Ranka's role in it is summed up pretty well by the comment by musouka that I linked to earlier (I'll quote it here this time).

Spoiler for length:

Also has been very carefully set up through the entire show, in a way that perhaps makes him a difficult-to-understand lead, but an excellent protagonist in a love triangle. For a long time, I couldn’t understand what Alto’s character arc was. He seemed so defined by the triangle that it was almost second nature to view his character through that lense.

But as I was wondering one day, a few days before the airing up ep 23, exactly what Alto would do when he was torn between staying or saving Ranka, it fell on me like a load of bricks. He would choose his home, the Frontier. One of the main facets of his arc is his hatred of his home, feeling like it restricts his freedom. He had to learn to value it–to want to protect it.

Swampy went further and pointed out that Alto’s character arc is also strongly tied between two extremes. His father and the life of an actor, which he wants to escape, and his job as a pilot in SMS. His job in SMS is directly a result of his interaction with Ranka. Ranka provided Alto with the perfect outlet for his frustrations.

Take the Miss Macross pagent for example. It is the scene with his father that ends up sending him racing away to sorty. Flight is symbolic of Alto running away from home. Ranka? His excuse/reason for doing so.

The key word in the Ranka+Alto relationship is “protect”. Go back and watch a few of the Ranka+Alto interactions in earlier episodes. Here’s a good one, the scene where Ranka is tying up Alto’s hair. Not only does he associate gentle hands in his hair with warm memories, but the thing that gets him to react to Ranka in that scene is her thanking him for protecting her. In short, Alto gravitates towards Ranka because being with her makes him feel good, like he’s acomplishing something, like she needs him. Nowhere is this more evident when they are alone together in the jungle of Galia 4, away from everyone else and anyone they could fall back on.

I think Alto “wants” to choose Ranka at this point in time, to cement his role as “pilot” and “protector”. Notice I used the word “role”? That’s exactly what it is. Both Michel and Yasaburo keep hitting Alto over the head with “you’re not like me [aka, a pilot]” and “you are an actor!” respectively. And they’re both right, because Alto is using the idea of running away as “freedom”.

Sheryl also plays a part as “Sheryl Nome”, and look at how enraged Alto gets at the hint in episode nineteen that she might be “lying to herself” because of it. It was the same back when she joined his piloting class for reasons he found less than pure–and Michel calls him on that too.

That’s why his decision in episode 23 is about so much more than Ranka. It’s about admitting to himself that he used her as an excuse to run away from his past, from his home. It’s about him learning to see the true value of the place he lives in and the people who struggle to live there. That’s what it means to be a grown up–no longer doing the things that might make you “feel good”, and instead doing things that will make other people feel good. So, like the scene where Ranka realizes there are more important things than her love for Alto, so does Alto realize that he has things he wants to protect more than Ranka.

How Alto felt about Ranka is one piece to his puzzle. I imagine the other piece–what Sheryl meant to him over the course of the series, will be unlocked next episode–and we’ll see all his interactions with her in a new light. Than, the last episode will be Alto’s final choice.

Sheryl's role, on the other hand, starts in episode 5 at the latest, when she marvels at all the wonderful things she sees on Frontier, followed up by their conversation in episode 6.

This is why I get frustrated when all discussion pertains only to who Alto should/will pick, or whether so-and-so deserves Alto or not, because there's a whole truckload of character development that falls by the wayside in those discussions.

(And yes, I know you all discussed it three years ago (well, Darth and I and a few others didn't)...knew I should have just concentrated on getting the commentaries done instead of seeing people go round in circles just like they did back then...)

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by karice67

This is why I get frustrated when all discussion pertains only to who Alto should/will pick, or whether so-and-so deserves Alto or not, because there's a whole truckload of character development that falls by the wayside in those discussions.

Hey, I've been instigating a ton of character discussion over the last years, especially of Alto, who has been maligned quite frequently by several people.

Although I do not really agree with what musouka wrote about his running away all the time... but that is the topic for another discussion, which I think I already had with her a year ago or so.

[karice67]

^
Then what do you think Alto was referring to when he said, in ep. 23, that "I may certainly have been running away all this time?"