(L) Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka? [WN]

[sierra117]

On another note, we had finally saw D’s face in the anime

[erneiz_hyde]

You really think Shun WANTS to do nothing? Like I said, Shun is only seemingly doing nothing because Shiro and everyone else is doing everything in their power to make sure he can't do anything that might hinder their plans. It's victim blaming, the rich telling the poor that it's their own fault they are poor, that meme with the person shooting someone dead on the chair and then asking why would someone do this, a soccer mom forcing her child because she knows what's best for them, you get the idea. Shun is already doing everything with what he knows within his power already, and him getting criticized for failing some impossible standard doesn't sit well with me.

Communication. If only.

[Huh...?]

As i haven't read the WN properly yet, have a Question.

Is Shun still connected with the Elves, or does he know what the Elves have actually done in the past and are trying to achieve?

[heroeric]

Originally Posted by Huh...?

As i haven't read the WN properly yet, have a Question.

Is Shun still connected with the Elves, or does he know what the Elves have actually done in the past and are trying to achieve?

Besides Oka all of the elves have already been wiped out.

[Huh...?]

Originally Posted by heroeric

Besides Oka all of the elves have already been wiped out.

Ok.
But did they (aka., Shun & Co) learn about the truth about the Elves then? (especially Potimas)
Or do they believe that Elves were innocent and shouldn't have been wiped out.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

Certainly Shiro will sometimes take the easy option, particularly if it means not having to deal with people. But for her grand plan, she spent years on it and had every motivation to try to come up with a plan that wouldn't cause Gyurie or Dustin to side against her. She wasn't able to and so tried to hide the truth from them instead. Putting it another way, if there was some relatively simple way to improve her plan such that Gyurie or Dustin would not object then that would be simpler overall for her. So even going by your own arguments she'd have no reason to go with a riskier plan that required more preparation - ie to fight Gyurie and/or Dustin if necessary.

The operative words here are relatively simple.

Shiro's only goal is Ariel's happiness and safety. I don't think it would even occur to her to choose a plan where that was even slightly at risk, even if said plan reduced the loss of life on the planet or the risk of fighting Gulie or Dustin.

The problem with simply objecting is that to anyone who has looked seriously at the situation, that's the worst possible option. It's not that people don't have the right to object or complain but if they actually want to make a difference and be taken seriously then they need to do more than that.

You're acting as if he's talking from behind a keyboard about a situation that has nothing to do with him. This has just as much his problem as it is anyone else's. He's doing everything he can within his ability. His ability is tiny, yes, but that doesn't mean it should be dismissed outright. As erneiz hyde mentioned, he's actively being hindered as well.

Putting it another way, doing nothing dooms everybody and it's literally the case that "something must be done". So objecting without trying to come up with a better "something" either means that the objector is in denial about the reality of the situation or actually wants to achieve the worst possible situation.

No one is denying the reality of situation here. Everyone is trying to come up with their best solution to protect what's important to them. If Shiro planning genocide for Ariel's sake is fine (she's doing it for that reason, she doesn't care about the world, especially since she can run away) why is it a bad thing for Shun to struggle in his own limited way to protect what is important to him.

It's inherently a very bad stance to take when the people with real power have already made their choices.

If there's an inherently bad stance here, it's the idea that only the special powerful people should be allowed to make decisions, especially when said people mostly have the ability to run away and not end up dead with everyone else.

Originally Posted by Huh...?

Ok.
But did they (aka., Shun & Co) learn about the truth about the Elves then? (especially Potimas)
Or do they believe that Elves were innocent and shouldn't have been wiped out.

They learned the truth by now. And it's not as if every single elf had to die. Potimas is the only one that had to be killed.

It's simply that it would be labour intensive for them to check which elves Potimas had put parts of his soul in, so they wiped them all out.

[heroeric]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Shiro's only goal is Ariel's happiness and safety. I don't think it would even occur to her to choose a plan where that was even slightly at risk, even if said plan reduced the loss of life on the planet or the risk of fighting Gulie or Dustin.

The thing is that fighting Gyurie and Dustin greatly decreases the chance of success of Shiro plan. Especially since Shiro greatly overestimates Gyurie strength so she thinks the chance of winning are much lower then they actually are. So such a plan would need a significantly higher chance of failing for it outweigh not having to fight Gyurie or Dustin.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by heroeric

The thing is that fighting Gyurie and Dustin greatly decreases the chance of success of Shiro plan. Especially since Shiro greatly overestimates Gyurie strength so she thinks the chance of winning are much lower then they actually are. So such a plan would need a significantly higher chance of failing for it outweigh not having to fight Gyurie or Dustin.

The point is, even if there is a way to not fight Gyurie or Dustin, Shiro will not consider it if there is a possibility of harm coming to Maou-chan. The number one priority for Shiro is Maou-chan, and Oka-chan next. And her priority is making sure they don't die, not necessarily grant what they wish.

[Gerard07]

Hello everyone!!!!, I integrate me to the forum, sorry if my English is bad, I'm still learning.
There have been no updates in the last few days right?
The other, hurts about Oni-Kun, I wanted him to survive until the end, is there no chance that he will reappear again? (although I doubt it, it was never said if he acquired any abilities like "Immortality").
Question, in Japan, is Shun a popular character? due to how favored he is by the script, I was hoping that Oni-Kun would defeat him even with that, but at this rate he might even defeat Ariel.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Originally Posted by Gerard07

Hello everyone!!!!, I integrate me to the forum, sorry if my English is bad, I'm still learning.
There have been no updates in the last few days right?

Hello!

There's been no new WN chapters since the 12th Feb.

The other, hurts about Oni-Kun, I wanted him to survive until the end, is there no chance that he will reappear again? (although I doubt it, it was never said if he acquired any abilities like "Immortality").

Probably only one who could do anything is D.

Question, in Japan, is Shun a popular character? due to how favored he is by the script, I was hoping that Oni-Kun would defeat him even with that, but at this rate he might even defeat Ariel.

I doubt Shun is popular. The Japanese fans often refer to him as the "mob hero". (Mob as in "background character").

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

The point is, even if there is a way to not fight Gyurie or Dustin, Shiro will not consider it if there is a possibility of harm coming to Maou-chan. The number one priority for Shiro is Maou-chan, and Oka-chan next. And her priority is making sure they don't die, not necessarily grant what they wish.

Oh please, you know this is not true. If safety is priority, Shiro wouldn't let Ariel fight Potimas at all.
Ariel is 100% fated for soul collapse at this point thanks to that fight completely straining her out.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Oh please, you know this is not true. If safety is priority, Shiro wouldn't let Ariel fight Potimas at all.
Ariel is 100% fated for soul collapse at this point thanks to that fight completely straining her out.

OK, it's been a while, remind me again, was that Shiro letting her do that or was that Maou-chan being selfish ruining Shiro's plans? I forgot the finer plot points already and it's unlikely I'm going to read this or any narou again for quite some time. So yeah, I've been talking from my impression I had when I left this work, but then I guess it could be that Shiro is just committing to the rest of her ruined plans as a sort of revenge to the world that made Maou-chan suffer so. If she wasn't, then I stand corrected. Maybe she now genuinely cares for the inhabitants of that world and genuinely believes that this genocide will benefit them, Thanos style.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

OK, it's been a while, remind me again, was that Shiro letting her do that or was that Maou-chan being selfish ruining Shiro's plans? I forgot the finer plot points already and it's unlikely I'm going to read this or any narou again for quite some time. So yeah, I've been talking from my impression I had when I left this work, but then I guess it could be that Shiro is just committing to the rest of her ruined plans as a sort of revenge to the world that made Maou-chan suffer so. If she wasn't, then I stand corrected. Maybe she now genuinely cares for the inhabitants of that world and genuinely believes that this genocide will benefit them, Thanos style.

Having just read the 10th novel the state of the world is that most souls are at a point that they will not last more that a few more incarnations. With Potimas gone the system would recover the world but it will likely destroy everyones souls before that happens. As long as the system continues everyone is doomed to soul death. Just shutting the system down as is will kill everyone as the planet will die as there isn't enough MA energy. Shiro plan is not a genocide for the sake of it. The system needs enough MA energy in it so when the non world repairing parts of the system are disengaged the world can be made stable and it will end the forced incarnation and allow the souls to begin to recover. Also the system itself is near collapse.

So what outlook do you take?

Try to keep everyone alive? Not enough MA energy to disable the system. Either it collapses before the planet is restored and everyone dies and there are the same number or more of soul deaths as Shiro's plan or The vast majority of beings on the planet undergo soul death before the system collapses and maybe the planet is restored.

Kill enough people to have enough MA energy to disable the system? lots of deaths and will result in a considerable amount of soul deaths. Planet is stable. inhabitants are no longer force to incarnate and will allow their souls to start healing.

Keep the system from collapsing? The vast majority of beings on the planet undergo soul death and maybe the planet is restored

There are no good fixes. Shiro's plan is the one that has both the most living people and souls surviving .

[shmaster]

First thing first: Shiro's plan will results in a genocide, but it has the least risk in soul collapse.
Regardless of Shiro's Intentions, she did take the consideration to avoid soul collapse in her plan instead of lol whatever as long as Ariel is happy.

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

OK, it's been a while, remind me again, was that Shiro letting her do that or was that Maou-chan being selfish ruining Shiro's plans? I forgot the finer plot points already and it's unlikely I'm going to read this or any narou again for quite some time. So yeah, I've been talking from my impression I had when I left this work, but then I guess it could be that Shiro is just committing to the rest of her ruined plans as a sort of revenge to the world that made Maou-chan suffer so. If she wasn't, then I stand corrected. Maybe she now genuinely cares for the inhabitants of that world and genuinely believes that this genocide will benefit them, Thanos style.

Ariel who had stayed silent in the past begin to take action because she noticed her soul is at its limit and she'll die in a couple hundreds of year, so she is determined to get her revenge and free Sariel when she still can fully use her powers.
Shiro tried to stop Ariel from fighting Potimas as that's going to shorten Ariel's life from a couple of hundreds year left to soul collapse in immediate future. But Ariel absolutely refuse to give the chance of killing Potimas to anyone else. She already decided that instead of doing nothing in the remaining of her life, she is going to use whatever left that's in herself to achieve what she wants.
Shiro backed down knowing there is no way to change Ariel's mind, and knowing she is in no place to voice opinions when it comes to what had happened between Ariel and Potimas.
She'll just work out the plan base on what Ariel already decided to do.

[erneiz_hyde]

Continue to remind me, why was Dustin's plan inferior to Shiro's? Is he intending to keep the system after killing Sariel? Was there any reason why it had to be the masses that die and not the higher beings? Because if it doesn't matter where the energy comes from then all Shun had to do is kill Maou-chan and Kuro (lol plot armor) and then shut the system down, maybe even offer his own life while he's at it to at least free Sariel.

[heroeric]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Continue to remind me, why was Dustin's plan inferior to Shiro's? Is he intending to keep the system after killing Sariel? Was there any reason why it had to be the masses that die and not the higher beings? Because if it doesn't matter where the energy comes from then all Shun had to do is kill Maou-chan and Kuro (lol plot armor) and then shut the system down, maybe even offer his own life while he's at it to at least free Sariel.

Dustin's plan is to for Kuro to replace Sariel. This plan is flawed because the souls in the system are already reaching their limit. So it is questionable if people would last till the world is repaired. Even if this does work many souls would have collapsed anyway.
I'm not sure why they can't just sacrifice higher beings but my best guess that they simply do not have enough power. Both Shiro and Kuro are low rank gods so they have have relatively little power. So it's likely both of them combine will still be not enough energy to restore the planet. For Ariel it doesn't matter if she dies or not since her energy will go back to the planet if the system is shuts down.
Another possible reason is that since Shiro and Kuro aren't part of the system they can't donate energy to the system. And they can't directly donate energy to the planet since it is unlikely to be compatible with the world. For the same reason why it was stated that the plan to sacrifice Sariel was doomed to fail since the energy from Sariel and the energy that the planet need are different.

[NotteBoy97]

Yeah Dustin's plan iirc in the his best most likely case scenario will have Kuro be sacrificed and then humanity has another civil war to make up for the missing MA energy as the system is nonviolently turned off so soul death wouldn't be an issue. Just that the plan is pretty optimistic cause of a variety of factors with Kuro even if he wins probably going to be drained of a lot of energy which makes the plan more dubious. So characters IC suspect he has a secret plan that is so horrible he can't tell anyone else to get any missing energy that is needed. Wonder what that plan is, summoning people from other worlds to sacrifice the fresh souls of?

[erneiz_hyde]

What's our timeline again? A couple decades? or was it a few centuries?
Why was murder necessary again? What's wrong with letting the humans die of old age?
What's stopping a Madoka program (from Madoka Magica) to work? ie. Shiro or anyone else hijacking the system or planting babies in every living being and only taking their lives when they are about to die.

[shmaster]

The timing is the biggest problem here. It is volatile.
It can jump between destruction in a few month to a number of year.
And soul collapse is already happening, just slowly.
But it is going to speed up as time progress.
The longer human live within the system, the more likely their soul are going to be gone for good.
Let humam die of old age? Sure why not, soul collapse awaits you!

[erneiz_hyde]

Wait, a few months? Seriously? OK, Madoka program is out then.
OK, next, if Dustin's best case scenario can solve soul death issue as well, why isn't Shiro helping him deal with Kuro?