Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[darktruth]

Question: do you think it's possible Yoshida can turn into a villain in the actual story? (we all know how she is in Shana-tan lol) Her ongoing contest against Shana in winning Yuji's heart may lead to her doing some selfish acts.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by darktruth

Question: do you think it's possible Yoshida can turn into a villain in the actual story? (we all know how she is in Shana-tan lol) Her ongoing contest against Shana in winning Yuji's heart may lead to her doing some selfish acts.

As it is in the anime now, I don't see Kazumi becoming a villainess. So far she doesn't seem capable of displaying ingratitude towards Shana for having actually let her in on "their world" of the Flame Haze and Tomogara. However, it is possible that she might do something rash or stupid if she indeed had some power to use which might or might not lead to becoming a real hindrance rather than being a source of aid.

Shana-tan was meant purely for fun, so don't take that too seriously.

[DX HBK]

Originally Posted by holyman282

I agree with Owaranai Destiny, Shana's skills fluctuate throughout the series and the main cause for these fluctuations are Yuji. When she was fighting Margery in S1 her power increased when she felt that Yuji would fight alongside her and likewise, when Yuji was fighting against Friagne with Shana, her ability increased. Conversely, whenever it appears that Yuji is not with her, Shana's skills decrease. It's the same here, she loses control because she thought that Yuji would be taken and hence throws caution to the wind and rushes to battle...

Seriously DX look at the scene where Shana charges through Hecate's attack, does that look like a person who's thinking logically? Tell me honestly.

She had a few seconds while deflecting the Aster shower and closing in. The adrenaline she had can make anyone think of at least a single tactic, perhaps going far as to predict the foe's reaction. I didn't SAY she was thinking logically at that moment. I'm SAYING that she COULD'VE been thinking logically fast enough to squeeze out a tactic rather than to rely on just emotion and instinct, which could unintentionally show her limitations. Holyman, read the first post I wrote and I didn't say that she was thinking logically when she charged at Hecate. I'm questioning on the few seconds she spent not doing so.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by DX HBK

She had a few seconds while deflecting the Aster shower and closing in. The adrenaline she had can make anyone think of at least a single tactic, perhaps going far as to predict the foe's reaction.

I'm missing something here;No offense, but are you implying that adrenaline can make people think logically? Wow...Well, I'm not proficient in the sciences, so I'll leave it to those who are for an explanation.

I didn't SAY she was thinking logically at that moment. I'm SAYING that she COULD'VE been thinking logically fast enough to squeeze out a tactic rather than to rely on just emotion and instinct, which could unintentionally show her limitations.

Hmm...Not impossible, but the scenario doesn't sound very plausible. I understand, of course, different people react in different ways when their loved ones are in danger. Still, I don't expect a girl who was expecting to confess to the boy she liked to 'think logically' when the latter's in danger of disappearing from her forever. Besides, she didn't rely on emotion and instinct, but was actually driven by it.

Aside from that, what kind of tactics or maneuvers would have been preferable? A suggestion would be nice to back up your statement that Shana could have done something better other than charge straight in and try to slice Master Throne into a million pieces.

And for starters, trying to chop off Hecate's fingers isn't viable. She isn't a darn practice dummy for beginners.

[DX HBK]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

I'm missing something here;No offense, but are you implying that adrenaline can make people think logically? Wow...Well, I'm not proficient in the sciences, so I'll leave it to those who are for an explanation.


Hmm...Not impossible, but the scenario doesn't sound very plausible. I understand, of course, different people react in different ways when their loved ones are in danger. Still, I don't expect a girl who was expecting to confess to the boy she liked to 'think logically' when the latter's in danger of disappearing from her forever. Besides, she didn't rely on emotion and instinct, but was actually driven by it.

Aside from that, what kind of tactics or maneuvers would have been preferable? A suggestion would be nice to back up your statement that Shana could have done something better other than charge straight in and try to slice Master Throne into a million pieces.

And for starters, trying to chop off Hecate's fingers isn't viable. She isn't a darn practice dummy for beginners.

Adrenaline only makes them THINK faster. I didn't say it made them think more logically.
Adrenaline can cause people to think faster in relation to time. They become more alert in thinking things milliseconds off the bat. Aside from training in combat, Shana did have an education at the Tendou-Kyuu so the knowledge of applying quick-second tactics was greatly stressed.



When Hecate brought the Trigon to block, the fingers of both hands were around the grip of the staff. Try holding a pipe and you'll see that your fingers tend to envelop around it. So Shana could've aim a slash at Hecate's fingers when the Supreme Throne brought her weapon to block, not at the staff space between Hecate's hands as depicted above.

[teachopvutru]

^Actually, rather than Shana makes a mistake at where to strike, isn't it Hecate who is able to predict where to block? That's what I have been thinking, although looking back, the scene doesn't give much detail...

Also, I'm not really sure what adrenaline is, but when you are scare or desperate, don't you react fast to the situation at hand but gets dumb down on everything else? Shana can't think logically is one thing, but at the same time it seems like she is too desperate so her neglect on fighting a good fight just seems natural to me.

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Adrenaline only makes them THINK faster. I didn't say it made them think more logically.
Adrenaline can cause people to think faster in relation to time. They become more alert in thinking things milliseconds off the bat. Aside from training in combat, Shana did have an education at the Tendou-Kyuu so the knowledge of applying quick-second tactics was greatly stressed.

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

I'm missing something here;No offense, but are you implying that adrenaline can make people think logically? Wow...Well, I'm not proficient in the sciences, so I'll leave it to those who are for an explanation.

Very well i'll provide a explanation.. By the way DX you're wrong about what adrenaline does. Adrenaline is a hormone produced in the adrenal gland, the gland produces adrenaline during times of great stress or fear to activate a response called "fight or flight" where the hormone prepares the body to either run away or fight.

Take for example, why do people become pale when they get scared? Well that's one of the effects of adrenaline, it causes blood to rush to the muscles in preparation to runaway or to fight hence technically less blood would be at the brains for logical thinking.

In fact adrenaline does the opposite effect to what you've stated DX in that it actually causes a person to be more rash in their actions. I hope i've explained it. Anyone can tell you that it's hard to think when they are in panic and when they are in panic and that's because when they are in panic they produce adrenaline.

In other words Shana, who looks to be pumped full with adrenaline and chose to fight out of the "fight or flight" response could not possibly thinking logically.

Originally Posted by DX HBK

I didn't SAY she was thinking logically at that moment.

I'm a bit confused but does that mean you agree with me in that she wasn't thinking logically?

Originally Posted by DX HBK

I'm SAYING that she COULD'VE been thinking logically fast enough to squeeze out a tactic rather than to rely on just emotion and instinct, which could unintentionally show her limitations. Holyman, read the first post I wrote and I didn't say that she was thinking logically when she charged at Hecate. I'm questioning on the few seconds she spent not doing so.

Could've and would've are two different things, in those situations would most people be able to think logically and not rely on their emotions?

We have seen throughout the series that despite what Flame Hazes are, their reactions and emotions still mimick that of a human. We've seen Shana, display love, jealousy, sadness ect. We've also seen Margery lose control in ep 13, it's proof that despite the power Flame Hazes possess, they still have a sense of humanity in that they are still influenced by emotions and aren't just logical cold killers of Tomogura.

[Triple_R]

I have to agree with holyman282.

Shana struck me as coming just short of losing it in this episode - she almost snapped like Margery did in Episode 13.

I think that Shana just wanted to blitz Hecate into defeat - even cut her in half if that was necessary. It is possible that she wanted to wipe out Hecate's staff , though, perhaps seeing it as a major source, or channeller, of Hecate's power.

Either way, she was simply charging in with her emotions going full blast.


Episode 15 was a great, intense, thrill-ride. Episodes 13 through 15 have all been excellent, and they make up for a couple too many "slice of life" episodes in the first half of the season.

All around, Shana Season 2 is looking pretty good right now, and shaping up nicely.

I love how complex, and intertwined, Yuji's situation has become. It'll be great to see how it's all resolved.


I also think that Johan, for whatever reason, probably cares a bit about Yuji's fate (perhaps he could even see into Yuji's life and actions a bit from his position within him)?). I think he basically talked Pheles down into accepting the current situation for Yuji's sake until more could be done to rectify everything.

I think that Johan is still continuing to exist within Yuji - I don't think that he was absorbed by Pheles, or just faded away.

[DX HBK]

Originally Posted by holyman282

Very well i'll provide a explanation.. By the way DX you're wrong about what adrenaline does. Adrenaline is a hormone produced in the adrenal gland, the gland produces adrenaline during times of great stress or fear to activate a response called "fight or flight" where the hormone prepares the body to either run away or fight.

Take for example, why do people become pale when they get scared? Well that's one of the effects of adrenaline, it causes blood to rush to the muscles in preparation to runaway or to fight hence technically less blood would be at the brains for logical thinking.

In fact adrenaline does the opposite effect to what you've stated DX in that it actually causes a person to be more rash in their actions. I hope i've explained it. Anyone can tell you that it's hard to think when they are in panic and when they are in panic and that's because when they are in panic they produce adrenaline.

In other words Shana, who looks to be pumped full with adrenaline and chose to fight out of the "fight or flight" response could not possibly thinking logically.



I'm a bit confused but does that mean you agree with me in that she wasn't thinking logically?



Could've and would've are two different things, in those situations would most people be able to think logically and not rely on their emotions?

We have seen throughout the series that despite what Flame Hazes are, their reactions and emotions still mimick that of a human. We've seen Shana, display love, jealousy, sadness ect. We've also seen Margery lose control in ep 13, it's proof that despite the power Flame Hazes possess, they still have a sense of humanity in that they are still influenced by emotions and aren't just logical cold killers of Tomogura.

Adrenaline does go into the muscles to dramatically decrease reaction time but a good portion also goes into the brain as well in order to allow the nerves to act more quickly upon impulse. It's a temporary boost that amplifies the functions of the body beyond normal levels of activity. The circulation of blood increases EVERYWHERE and there's no area of limitations as you would imply in saying that more blood goes to the muscles than the brain. Don't you think someone would fatally burst veins or arteries in that kind of case? The paleness comes before the adrenaline circulates due to a fluctuation in the body's temperature. Overall, when your individual reaction time is decreased by adrenaline, then time relative seems mentally slower to you than normal.

The rashness comes more from the dark animalistic nature of the human being itself and that's when their emotions boil over their sentient mentality. Adrenaline might feed into that irrationality but it isn't the primary cause.

Shana could think logically in situations like that, even with the adrenaline going through her blood. Why the portrayal lacking that in the episode is a mystery.


You ASKED me the question on WHETHER she could be thinking logically when she charged into the fray. The only simple reaction I saw that held sound judgment/logic would be directly assaulting the threat Hecate posed, compared to just flying to and getting Yuji out of the fire. When I said "I didn't SAY she was thinking logically at the moment", that meant that I never answered your question in regards to MY view on whether Shana was acting on logic or judgment at all until now.

Overall, Shana did have a bit of logic but there could've been more in that small time gap between clearing the Aster and engaging Hecate: the point I stressed in my last post about slashing the fingers rather than just think: "slash to kill" repeatedly but failing to utilize the attacks to an effective level.


Besides, those few seconds after clearing the Aster Unrestricted Spell to engaging the enemy was more than enough sufficient time for her to set her first goal which was to strike Hecate down, but it raises the question within a millisecond later: How do I do that?

Half a second later: She's holding a staff that nearly blasted me out of the sky.

Another half second as she screams in bringing her sword up: She's about to block my attack so I'll disarm her by targeting her fingers surrounding parts of the staff.

alternative scenario that results:

Shana brings the Nietono no Shana down right on Hecate's fingers that enveloped the staff and SLASH! four of Hecate's fingers are sliced off and she's momentarily disarmed from the pain, leaving an opening for about two or three seconds.


Obviously, Flame Hazes are still human so I have neither an objection nor the energy to type anything about it

[Owaranai Destiny]

The way it is, DX, you're going to find fault with every single battle scene not only in SnS, but also in any fighting scenes from other shows. I'm suggesting you just drop this, or we can all just carry out with this pointless argument.

Just for one last shot at this: You know, I'ver rewatched the scene, and it isn't as though Shana was aiming at the staff. I mean, you don't fight to aim for the weapon first, right? The way she was fighting was to attack Hecate in the quickest and most direct way possible as dictated probably by her instinct, emotion and perhaps even a different train of thought from what you suggested.

No offense, but your suggestion is flawed (but interesting) at the very beginning because the scene doesn't show us if Hecate has already taken up her staff to parry before Shana tried to strike her. I'd like to see even the most seasoned warrior determine WHERE Hecate's fingers were accurately before she raised up her staff. There are so many possibilities for her; Hecate could dodge, parry the blow in the centre, step back and fire an Aster at her with the right timing. What makes you think Shana is the only one capable of thinking in this exchange of blows?

Besides, it's the same old argument: You could see her heart wasn't in it to fight Hecate, but she was actually more concerned with Yuuji. The moment he went into a freefall, she turned from the fight as though it never happened. The division of her attention might be a reason why she was unable to 'think logically' in that sense.

Re-watching the scene where Johan and Pheles finally met up was touching, but it gave me the chills too; Just exactly how insanely powerful is this Sabrac?

Spoiler:

I even recalled that Wilhelmina was almost killed by him, but rescued by Pheles and Johan, but that's another story.

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Adrenaline does go into the muscles to dramatically decrease reaction time but a good portion also goes into the brain as well in order to allow the nerves to act more quickly upon impulse. It's a temporary boost that amplifies the functions of the body beyond normal levels of activity. The circulation of blood increases EVERYWHERE and there's no area of limitations as you would imply in saying that more blood goes to the muscles than the brain. Don't you think someone would fatally burst veins or arteries in that kind of case? The paleness comes before the adrenaline circulates due to a fluctuation in the body's temperature. Overall, when your individual reaction time is decreased by adrenaline, then time relative seems mentally slower to you than normal.

How much blood did you think i meant that was redirected from the brain to the muscles? The brain in a state of homeostasis is already a organ that has the most blood flow then any other organ in the body.

I was hoping we wouldn't get to the different lobes of the cerebrum but i guess i'll have to.. You understand that the cerebrum is made up of different lobes. Logical thinking, in the sense you're mentioning are located in the frontal lobe. The frontal lobe works by controlling problem solving initiation, facial movement, planning abilities, coordinating, and motivation. In other words this is the part where one could our sentience derives from.

One of the effects of Adrenaline is a heightened sense of awareness, which you may confuse as being more logical in your actions, but the instead it means that focus of nutrients and blood are diverted into the temporal lobe (auditory processing), parietal lobe (spatial sense and navigation) and occipital lobe (visual processing). All together increases in blood flows in those areas cause a heightened sense of awareness and not the frontal lobe which is what is involved in logical processing.

Originally Posted by DX HBK

The rashness comes more from the dark animalistic nature of the human being itself and that's when their emotions boil over their sentient mentality. Adrenaline might feed into that irrationality but it isn't the primary cause.

Weren't you just arguing previously that adrenaline allows one to think logically and hence rationally? So now you're saying that Adrenaline might feed into that irrationality?

Also think of it this way, adrenaline is produced during periods of stress, in which your mind (hence your logical processing ability) is already not working at its optimum.

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Shana could think logically in situations like that, even with the adrenaline going through her blood. Why the portrayal lacking that in the episode is a mystery.

The very fact that you think Shana, who was placed in a situation where the one she loves is in danger, discovering hecate is making her move and add that with the fact that Johan as well as silver is somehow inside Yuji, not to mention Pheles who was also after Yuji/Johan, then you go and call her not acting logically a mystery simply comfounds me.

I don't mean any offence or wish to argue but don't you feel that what you are saying is a bit unreasonable? You expect someone to act and think logically in those situations..

Originally Posted by DX HBK

You ASKED me the question on WHETHER she could be thinking logically when she charged into the fray. The only simple reaction I saw that held sound judgment/logic would be directly assaulting the threat Hecate posed, compared to just flying to and getting Yuji out of the fire. When I said "I didn't SAY she was thinking logically at the moment", that meant that I never answered your question in regards to MY view on whether Shana was acting on logic or judgment at all until now.

I'd say that having the logic to realise Hecate is the cause is already a step above what normal people would of done and maybe that's a result of her being a Flame Haze. I'd say kudos to her for that instance of sound judgement, which has already surpassed that of normal human reactions during those situations, expecting anymore would be too unrealistic.

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Overall, Shana did have a bit of logic but there could've been more in that small time gap between clearing the Aster and engaging Hecate: the point I stressed in my last post about slashing the fingers rather than just think: "slash to kill" repeatedly but failing to utilize the attacks to an effective level.

Indeed Shana did have a bit of logic at that time and like i said, that was already beyond superhuman in the context of the situation at hand. Expecting anymore would be unreasonable.

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Besides, those few seconds after clearing the Aster Unrestricted Spell to engaging the enemy was more than enough sufficient time for her to set her first goal which was to strike Hecate down, but it raises the question within a millisecond later: How do I do that?

Half a second later: She's holding a staff that nearly blasted me out of the sky.

Another half second as she screams in bringing her sword up: She's about to block my attack so I'll disarm her by targeting her fingers surrounding parts of the staff.

alternative scenario that results:

Shana brings the Nietono no Shana down right on Hecate's fingers that enveloped the staff and SLASH! four of Hecate's fingers are sliced off and she's momentarily disarmed from the pain, leaving an opening for about two or three seconds.

Those are good tactics i'd admit but ask yourself, in the time between her flying out to meet Hecate does she really have the capacity to think all that, then act on it within those miliseconds. Battles involving time in the miliseconds, reflexes are more important then logical thinking.

Consider why we have a reflex arc system built into our bodies. Because if you put your hands on a hot plate and it takes your brain to think "geeze it's hot i should remove it" then you remove it, let's just say there's would be alot of burnt hands. Certain processes if gone through the normal way i.e. sensory>nerve>spinal cord> brain would take too long then say the reflex arc which just bypasses the brain.

[lua thien]

Good Lord, DX HBK. Obviously, fight scenes are bound to have mistakes. Just end the discussion about this already, man!

Anyways, Owaranai Destiny, info on Sabrac is in the novels section.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by lua thien

Good Lord, DX HBK. Obviously, fight scenes are bound to have mistakes. Just end the discussion about this already, man!

Anyways, Owaranai Destiny, info on Sabrac is in the novels section.

Just saw them. Thanks for the information anyway.

[grey_moon]

I dunno about adrenaline and Shana, she has been trained from a wee baby to deal with combat situations. Panic due to loosing something that she isn't willing to loose is more likely in my mind. In the old days it was living up to the memory of the previous Flame Haze and Alastor, but now it is poor fragile but oh so dense Yuji.

I personally think that the FH's power levels are linked to their emotional states. When Shana lost to Margery she was all confused by Yuji. Margery was so powerful maybe due to her need for revenge. When Shana was confident in her feelings for Yuji she was doing well, but right now she is in a halfway house so that could be affecting her.

[KaneDragon]

Originally Posted by lua thien

Good Lord, DX HBK. Obviously, fight scenes are bound to have mistakes. Just end the discussion about this already, man!

I'm with lua on this one.

[DX HBK]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

The way it is, DX, you're going to find fault with every single battle scene not only in SnS, but also in any fighting scenes from other shows. I'm suggesting you just drop this, or we can all just carry out with this pointless argument.

Just for one last shot at this: You know, I'ver rewatched the scene, and it isn't as though Shana was aiming at the staff. I mean, you don't fight to aim for the weapon first, right? The way she was fighting was to attack Hecate in the quickest and most direct way possible as dictated probably by her instinct, emotion and perhaps even a different train of thought from what you suggested.

No offense, but your suggestion is flawed (but interesting) at the very beginning because the scene doesn't show us if Hecate has already taken up her staff to parry before Shana tried to strike her. I'd like to see even the most seasoned warrior determine WHERE Hecate's fingers were accurately before she raised up her staff. There are so many possibilities for her; Hecate could dodge, parry the blow in the centre, step back and fire an Aster at her with the right timing. What makes you think Shana is the only one capable of thinking in this exchange of blows?

Besides, it's the same old argument: You could see her heart wasn't in it to fight Hecate, but she was actually more concerned with Yuuji. The moment he went into a freefall, she turned from the fight as though it never happened. The division of her attention might be a reason why she was unable to 'think logically' in that sense.

Re-watching the scene where Johan and Pheles finally met up was touching, but it gave me the chills too; Just exactly how insanely powerful is this Sabrac?

Spoiler:

I even recalled that Wilhelmina was almost killed by him, but rescued by Pheles and Johan, but that's another story.

Remove the means of defense before striking a critical blow. Would you try going for the kill when the enemy has means of defense against it?

I'm sure Hecate could also think in the exchange of blows. It could make a better melee exchange than just a simple slash being blocked.

Shana was putting her heart into the fight while Yuji was floating. Just look at her face when fighting the threat closest to him.
She pulled back quickly when Yuji began to fall. At that point of realization, the logic in her reason to save Yuji would dictate this: break away from fighting the enemy and go after Yuji. It boils down to priority in achieving a goal.

Originally Posted by holyman282

Weren't you just arguing previously that adrenaline allows one to think logically and hence rationally? So now you're saying that Adrenaline might feed into that irrationality?

Also think of it this way, adrenaline is produced during periods of stress, in which your mind (hence your logical processing ability) is already not working at its optimum.



The very fact that you think Shana, who was placed in a situation where the one she loves is in danger, discovering hecate is making her move and add that with the fact that Johan as well as silver is somehow inside Yuji, not to mention Pheles who was also after Yuji/Johan, then you go and call her not acting logically a mystery simply comfounds me.

I don't mean any offence or wish to argue but don't you feel that what you are saying is a bit unreasonable? You expect someone to act and think logically in those situations..



I'd say that having the logic to realise Hecate is the cause is already a step above what normal people would of done and maybe that's a result of her being a Flame Haze. I'd say kudos to her for that instance of sound judgement, which has already surpassed that of normal human reactions during those situations, expecting anymore would be too unrealistic.



Indeed Shana did have a bit of logic at that time and like i said, that was already beyond superhuman in the context of the situation at hand. Expecting anymore would be unreasonable.



Those are good tactics i'd admit but ask yourself, in the time between her flying out to meet Hecate does she really have the capacity to think all that, then act on it within those miliseconds. Battles involving time in the miliseconds, reflexes are more important then logical thinking.

Consider why we have a reflex arc system built into our bodies. Because if you put your hands on a hot plate and it takes your brain to think "geeze it's hot i should remove it" then you remove it, let's just say there's would be alot of burnt hands. Certain processes if gone through the normal way i.e. sensory>nerve>spinal cord> brain would take too long then say the reflex arc which just bypasses the brain.

The state of mind determines the rational and irrational behavior. Adrenaline just serves to enhance either one.

When a person is on an "adrenal rush", the senses are heightened to achieve greater awareness. The body begans to speed up processes to an emergency state. To that person, time relative to their surroundings seem to slow a bit which would allow them to relatively think and act faster.

Unreasonable seems a bit heavy there but I doubt I'm demanding overboard, unlike those who ask for more fanservice.

Figuring the cause to a series of steps isn't that difficult. You underestimate the true potential for humans to comprehend things in such short periods.

That period of time was more than enough to figure out a simple plan or tactic. It was only 3 to 5 seconds anyways and Shana had that combat state of mind on full throttle so she could in that duration.

The majority of the fight scenes in this season don't seem as intense as they used to be, despite the new things. I could go on with this, despite seeing others gnash their teeth at me.
Other than ban me for eternity (something I ain't afraid of), what's the worse that could happen if I went on?

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Unreasonable seems a bit heavy there but I doubt I'm demanding overboard, unlike those who ask for more fanservice.

? Fanservice? I honestly don't think that unreasonable is a heavy word in this situation. You seem unsatisfied with Shana's actions in those moments and unreasonably argue that she could of done better in those situations.

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Figuring the cause to a series of steps isn't that difficult. You underestimate the true potential for humans to comprehend things in such short periods.

Certainly humans are capable of surpassing their limits in certain situations, but can you honestly say that if you were put in the situation Shana was in that you would do those things?

Originally Posted by DX HBK

That period of time was more than enough to figure out a simple plan or tactic. It was only 3 to 5 seconds anyways and Shana had that combat state of mind on full throttle so she could in that duration.

Can you provide any actualy reference? Maybe a newspaper article talking about a person coming up with a sound logical plan within 3 to 5 seconds, or something similar? Perhaps a scientific journal.

I don't mean to offend you, it's just that without any evidence, you'd have to expect people to believe what you are saying on your words alone.

Originally Posted by DX HBK

The majority of the fight scenes in this season don't seem as intense as they used to be, despite the new things. I could go on with this, despite seeing others gnash their teeth at me.

There weren't alot of fight scenes to begin with this season and i thought they were on par with or surpass that of the first season.

Originally Posted by DX HBK

Other than ban me for eternity (something I ain't afraid of), what's the worse that could happen if I went on?

I'm sure most people don't want to offend you in any way but I just feel you are trying to hard to find fault in something, that in all circumstances most people would overlook. Also those faults can be justified and justified quite simply.

Compared to how much depth you had to go to, to justify why Shana should be able to think logically. It just means that your point is harder to argue because it's more unbelievable.

There is a saying that the "simplest solution is usually the correct one"

The simple solution is that Shana at that moment was too stressed and in a state of emotional turmoil to think logically. Evidence can be provided by the way she was acting in those events. See? Simple.

A complicated response would be to try and justify why Shana could think logically and made you and me go into details about adrenaline and the brain lobes ect.

[DX HBK]

Originally Posted by holyman282

? Fanservice? I honestly don't think that unreasonable is a heavy word in this situation. You seem unsatisfied with Shana's actions in those moments and unreasonably argue that she could of done better in those situations.



Certainly humans are capable of surpassing their limits in certain situations, but can you honestly say that if you were put in the situation Shana was in that you would do those things?



Can you provide any actualy reference? Maybe a newspaper article talking about a person coming up with a sound logical plan within 3 to 5 seconds, or something similar? Perhaps a scientific journal.

I don't mean to offend you, it's just that without any evidence, you'd have to expect people to believe what you are saying on your words alone.



There weren't alot of fight scenes to begin with this season and i thought they were on par with or surpass that of the first season.




I'm sure most people don't want to offend you in any way but I just feel you are trying to hard to find fault in something, that in all circumstances most people would overlook. Also those faults can be justified and justified quite simply.

Compared to how much depth you had to go to, to justify why Shana should be able to think logically. It just means that your point is harder to argue because it's more unbelievable.

There is a saying that the "simplest solution is usually the correct one"

The simple solution is that Shana at that moment was too stressed and in a state of emotional turmoil to think logically. Evidence can be provided by the way she was acting in those events. See? Simple.

A complicated response would be to try and justify why Shana could think logically and made you and me go into details about adrenaline and the brain lobes ect.

More likely disappointed on the time gaps between attacks and counterattacks and how they were used. I might have forgotten the whole point that this is anime and the small details about combat skills or tactics don't hold that much weight.

It's hard to think about the actual circumstances or imagine myself in Shana's place at that point in the first place. Let me ask you: Have you ever got into real fights in your life? Ones that were close to the "kill or be killed"?

The process isn't that elaborate as you would imagine in Shana's case. You're thinking a bit too complex on a simple notion of where to strike your sword at. Why would I need a scientific journal to explain something that happens in a cartoon or a piece of fiction? Flame Haze are the epitome of what they are in comparison to normal humans, which means that they could achieve a number of things beyond the human range of possible understanding.

That last comment just came out in response to others saying that I should cease the discussion about this.

[cnnydz]

wtf, i can't believe u guys r still talking about this. imo shana was very aware of everything and i think she used the right tactics (attacking hecate head on).

[CapoExecutor]

So, Dantalion is still alive. Where the heck is Domino? I can't recall if he made an appearance.