Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 4 Discussion / Poll

[Ithekro]

I've seen those eyes Maria had before. Shion had them in Higurashi once or twice. There are used for insanity I believe. They are slightly larger on Maria because she's youger and smaller. Maria being insane isn't that hard to believe. That she can be snapped out if it doesn't seem all that far off either if Rosa's had to smack her around a lot because of it. She seemed slightly unhinged before the murders...the more blood, the more unhinged Maria seems to be getting.

As for things "missing", could they be missing on purpose? Not everything that was told in the VN is true. It is easier to get away with a "false" scene in a text form because you can over describe the details and overload the reader's brain until they just aren't sure what it going on. Also you can provide useless facts, hidden truths, and convinient lies in text. These are harder to get across in an audio-visual media where you have a limited amount of time. Also it could be possible that some of the things that are "missing" are missing for a reason. Maybe they were "false" in the VN, just Battler never caught it. Or maybe this is how the anime provides "false" information, to be discovered later? Some mystery series do that sort of thing. Provide the minimal amount of detail to the viewer, but the detective sees more, and you, the viewer, get to see it later on when the detective is presenting his case.

Be patient...maybe they are more clever than you think they are.
(But it is Studio DEEN....)

[June 1983]

Originally Posted by Avisch

I'll commend DEEN

Spoiler for episode 04:

Requiem should have been inserted.

ARGH

Spoiler:

No Requiem post-Kanon's death? That is probably my favorite moment in Ep 1.

[Yushi]

Spoiler for Ep 4:

When I saw the 3 bodies at the end of the ep, I was hoping that Maria would be one of them =P A bit disappointed about that. No, I don't like Maria. I find her very creepy, annoying and not at all cute. Unfortunately, I have a feeling that Maria will probably survive till the end ~_~;;

People really drop like flies in this anime :O

[ameskitty]

Spoiler for ep 1-4:

Ick, there was so much potential for moving the asthma scene to after Kanon's death - and props to DEEN for thinking of it - but they just butchered it :/. Didn't help that they continued with Jessica's total character deficiency. (and my non-VN-reading friend commented that it seemed like she was randomly coughing in despair, which is a WTF no matter how you look at it)

The only scene where people reacted in a natural/non-linear fashion was the Eva/Hideyoshi scene - everything else seemed like something from a badly-acted play where the secondary actors just stand there stoically and let the leads get all emotional.

On the bright side, both Kanon's face-off with Beatrice and Maria's singing were both pure epic win (ahaha.wav was very shocking). And the scenes in Kinzo's study were not bad at all.

Am I strange for liking Maria's expressions, at least in this episode?

Foo...I guess 6/10 7/10 if it weren't for the subtlety fail that is "DURR she liked him didn't she?"...it really bothered me for some reason :/.

Bring on episode 1-5?

[Skullchukka]

I'm far more excited about this episode than any others. (Well from 1-5) Any English subtitles that I'm not aware of after ragesearching for about 2 hours? (Not asking a link, just asking if there is some ^^)
Also;

Spoiler for Higurashi Kai + Umineko spoilers. It's a silly theory. Very silly. :

Pure speculation. Maybe Maria is effected with Hinamizawa Syndrome? That would explain the over-exaggrated eyes.

Edit: I hope ^ that's not a spoiler from VN. I haven't played all Episodes yet, if it is so (then lulz for mega silly idea being correct) please contact me so I can delete that spoiler immediately. At this point it's just a speculation for me.

[zorahk]

Subs are up now.

[Trogdor Jube]

gg sure are fast.

[Demoned Away]

I just finished episode 4, subbed by [gg]... and I'd like to know what a "rape" blossom is?

kthx

[urusai]

It's not what you think....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed

[Ithekro]

Just a yellow flower, sort of like mustard I guess.

It is suppose to be fairly pretty, in the way that cherry blossoms are pretty I suppose.

[tcaz2]

I give it an 8.

They're getting better... still leaving a good bit of stuff out, but the episode was very entertaining. Cutting all of Battler's emotional reactions to things was a very questionable decision though, I have to say.

Spoiler for Next episode possibly:

I have NO idea how they're going to fit what's left in the Episode into one more episode, though...

[Demoned Away]

Originally Posted by tcaz2

I give it an 8.

They're getting better... still leaving a good bit of stuff out, but the episode was very entertaining. Cutting all of Battler's emotional reactions to things was a very questionable decision though, I have to say.

Spoiler for Next episode possibly:

I have NO idea how they're going to fit what's left in the Episode into one more episode, though...

Maybe they could make it an hour long episode? Hmm... would that even be enough to fit everything?

[Varion]

Well somehow I managed to forget the episode was yesterday and not today. That's what you get when you have a 4 day weekend I suppose. Still, I seemed to find the episode a lot more enjoyable watched with a nice full screen raw than I think I would've watching the stream in a small window spamming 'They used X tune!' to my whole MSN list... so I might just wait for the raw in future.

As a result my only real complaint is that the system0 scene was kind of ruined by the stupid mackarel can That isn't a scene I should be laughing out loud in, but I was, and then it was all ruined. Loved the use of the game's bounce-off-the-walls sound effect too, that was a sweet little touch. Sure, the remix of system0 could've been a bit louder and more powerful, but the fact that the tune was there at all made me happy. Honestly, a slightly watered down version of a classic game track is leagues better than the overambient mush from Higurashi. I can't help but feel some people are just flat out spoiled, to be honest.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Demoned Away

Maybe they could make it an hour long episode? Hmm... would that even be enough to fit everything?

Actually the problem is more of there ISN'T enough material left for this arc to last 20+ minutes.

[Demoned Away]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Actually the problem is more of there ISN'T enough material left for this arc to last 20+ minutes.

Oh I see. Sorry~ I haven't read the VNs yet. At the moment I'm an anime-only fan.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by MarthX

Unrealistic expectations. There's things called a budget and time restraints. The medium is also different. You can't have 20 minutes of nothing happening and expect the viewer to stick around. As a result, it's impossible to have a near perfect adaption. An anime adaption will always be a condensed version of the visual novel.

I don't believe someone who's played the visual novel can judge whether the atmosphere or pace are good. Because both will always be inferior to the VN. You need to hear what people who haven't played it think.

Oh I've heard, and the vast majority of them say that it is going good so far (or at least above average) hence why I am giving up saying otherwise.

And I don't think I am being unrealistic with my expectations. Time constraints agreeable (such as being limited to a set amount of episodes even though having one extra episode for the arc would have improved the amount of content they can force in considerably) but budget being the reason for QUALITY is rather unacceptable...with things like Canaan running around looking like it is straight from an OVA series. And especially for a series like this where it is quite popular, you would expect a better work of the overall quality instead of using "we are a poor studio" as an excuse.

And going from one extreme to another, all I am asking for is more of the depth shown from the game, not a big wall of narrative text to be said so boring? nah. Once again you can be shown the facts of what happens with the story but you aren't bring shown the emotion behind it (and for that ---> VN).

Originally Posted by Varion

As a result my only real complaint is that the system0 scene was kind of ruined by the stupid mackarel can That isn't a scene I should be laughing out loud in, but I was, and then it was all ruined.

Thing is...they were meant to be stocking up for overnight and all they brought was 1 (ONE!) tin of mackerel for all 8 of them...wow I'm speechless

[MarthX]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Actually the problem is more of there ISN'T enough material left for this arc to last 20+ minutes.

There is. The tea party alone could fill the 20 minutes if they left most of the dialog.

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

And especially for a series like this where it is quite popular, you would expect a better work of the overall quality instead of using "we are a poor studio" as an excuse.

Studio DEEN hasn't made a good looking anime in a long time, so it was obvious from the start that it wouldn't have that level of quality.

[Deathkillz]

Originally Posted by MarthX

Studio DEEN hasn't made a good looking anime in a long time, so it was obvious from the start that it wouldn't have that level of quality.

Their current other work this season 07-Ghost looks pretty damn good to me (and I know since I am currently watching). I'm also surprised that they did Touka Gettan as well so once again I don't buy that excuse. In fact it shouldn't even be an excuse any self respecting studio should be proud of ("lulz you are left with QUALITY but that is acceptable because we have a track record of producing QUALITY").

[MeoTwister5]

Okay just saw it subbed.

The Bad:

1. Pacing is a bit fast again but that really isn't the problem; the problem is the setup for episode 5. As I've posted before and some people also believe so, there doesn't seem to be enough post-arc material left to fill up an entire episode, unless of course they plan to insert Ep2 near the end which wuld be... blegh.

2. Klashikari pointed out the change they had in the scenes leading to the boiler room. As he said, they were supposed to be in the kitchen working when they hear the sounds from the boiler room and Kanon is supposed to have run ahead before Kumasawa could catch up, with him dying inside. This in turn could actually have made a major retcon to the story, since the circumstances surrounding his death is altered from the original storyline now that Kumasawa is by the boiler room door rather than being somewhere in between the kitchen and the boiler room.

This could have major implications in the future, but I'll see where it goes.

The Good:

1. Maria's supposed to be a mix of creepy child and retarded child, to some extent anyway. Even then, watching her sing that song while the servants and Nanjo have stakes protruding from their abdomen, legs and knees was awesome.

2. They almost had the tension of the standoff between Natsuhi and the servants right. It was still a bit too fast but it was good.

There is. The tea party alone could fill the 20 minutes if they left most of the dialog.

IF they leave in most of the dialogue. The first part of the scenes are somewhat superfluous violence anyway.

[Matrim]

I don't agree that just because one has read the VN they can't possibly judge the pacing and the atmosphere. When people are dying and the survivors reaction to that is an over the top fake looking crying and screaming one after another or ignoring the event completely after thirty seconds because they have to rush to the next scene I fell perfectly entitled to say that pacing is appalling. The creators of the anime seem to be in love with Maria and her stupid distorted faces get more attention and screentime than half of the murders.

And sure it helps to have read the VN to see some of the stupididty of the way the story is presented but come on - Natsuhi points the gun at Kumasawa, Genji and Nanjo, tells them to get out of the safest place and go where a vicious killer is supposed to be lurking and they do it with barely a protest? What is wrong with these people? Kinzo's body caused barely any reaction, you'd think this guy is the lowest servant, not the head of the family. It's like these peopel are in some game and remember to be scared or suspicious of each other only when the plot really demands it because they have to take certain action.