Civilization: Beyond Earth

[VDZ]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Internal trade routes can be nerfed by making a separate route for the food and production bonus just like in Civ5. And maybe reduce the number of possible trade route as well, but then it would be tricky to balance them for small empires due to how it's tied to the number of buildings you have.

I think the problem is simply that your amount of trade routes is directly correlated to your number of cities, providing a theoretically infinite amount of trade routes. I think Civ V's system of a global trade route limit was fine; perhaps just make it easier to get the 'more routes' bonuses for players with more cities. But the very option of endlessly getting more trade routes, regardless of how it's implemented, is inherently broken unless nerfed so hard that trade routes become non-viable in general. That's what I think.

[Flying Dagger]

Went for domination using Purity. I am just not getting it. Their kit is really weird. Extremely defensive, to a point where attacking another unit is almost detrimental. Their rovers get +10% damage per movement unused. Since you get all your movement points while defending, you end up a straight up +30/40% bonus while defending with your dragoon tanks. End result? Every unit gets >100 strength when defending in fortified stance, but still only have a measly 60ish strength when attacking.

They also have far too many effective city killers. Rover can take +50% vs cities, so can their jets. Their artillery is arguably pretty easy to use due to being able to get 3 movement and +1 range if not moved (although setting up counts as moving).

The farm spam is kind of silly. Thankfully the tech web means you actually have a shot at getting the ectogenesis pod (I aim for turn 90-95), afterwards its just about picking up all the farm upgrades.

Since trade is based off the difference between production and food between the cities, i think I am going to min-max a little next game: spam nothing but 20 farms in one city and nothing but manufactories in another city (oh god that health penalty~) and have everyone trade with them...

[Tiberium Wolf]

I think Beyond Earth is more playable than Civ V. Civ V there was so much stuff that made it so annoying to play. Beyond Earth is simple and enjoyable.

There are 4 things I find it weak:

1- The aliens are just there at start and they practically don't do shit. In Alpha Centauri when you would damage the environment they would come and attack you in force.

2- Unit build isn't telling much. Unless you know the names you will have the see the unit specs and description to figure out what hell is it.

3- Quests? What quests? I don't even bother to look at them. Total fail here.

4- The victory conditions kinda lack impact. They could at least made a vid of the endings.

[Strigon 13]

Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf

I think Beyond Earth is more playable than Civ V. Civ V there was so much stuff that made it so annoying to play. Beyond Earth is simple and enjoyable.

There are 4 things I find it weak:

1- The aliens are just there at start and they practically don't do shit. In Alpha Centauri when you would damage the environment they would come and attack you in force.

2- Unit build isn't telling much. Unless you know the names you will have the see the unit specs and description to figure out what hell is it.

3- Quests? What quests? I don't even bother to look at them. Total fail here.

4- The victory conditions kinda lack impact. They could at least made a vid of the endings.

1- Agree, if only aliens were a little more agressive and not just cannon fodder to grant exp to units. Something like, they get into your borders more often and destroy improvements; the ultrasonic fence is almost just decoration.

2- That's also a good weakpoint, specially in the end game were you choose your affinity units, they don't have an intuitive name. It already happened where I wanted to build one type of unit and after production was over I realize that's not the unit I actually wanted to create.

3- Yeah, quests have a minimal impact in the game, or just don't do nothing at all. Well, maybe the progenitor quests to get contact Victory.

4- That's a thing that the community has been requesting since Civ V came out. Also, you can't predict what quests the enemy is going for until it's too late. It already happened to me a lot that another faction got a Promised land/Contact victory, and the game didn't informed it until it was too late. Specially in Contact, since there's no alert or indication that another action discovered a progenitor ruin.

Also, another weakspot could be that the wonders are quite weak. Some of them are fine, but others are just a joke or don't offer any kind of advantage (Like the Crawler). Luckily there's mods for that.

Also, virtues have low impact in the early/mid game. A nice fix to the virtue generation could be nice.

[VDZ]

Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf

3- Quests? What quests? I don't even bother to look at them. Total fail here.

You're really missing out on important stuff by ignoring them. Many quests net affinity experience, and non-tech affinity experience is very useful as it means you have to research less techs to get to higher affinities (especially level 13 for the win condition). Other quests net you science, production and culture, and there's even a quest that gives you a unique wonder.

Originally Posted by Strigon 13

Something like, they get into your borders more often and destroy improvements; the ultrasonic fence is almost just decoration.

They're getting into my borders plenty, thank you. And it would really be hell if they'd also destroy my improvements in addition to preventing me from improving or working my tiles and stopping me from expanding (there's a nest just a bit further down too, and there's a lot of aliens in the fog of war. Also two nests further east still on the island).

Originally Posted by Strigon 13

Also, another weakspot could be that the wonders are quite weak. Some of them are fine, but others are just a joke or don't offer any kind of advantage (Like the Crawler). Luckily there's mods for that.

The wonders do have one use, and that's a strategy involving building a lot of wonders and then getting the '+7 culture for every wonder' virtue. The Crawler is useful for this strategy. There are far worse wonders, like the New Terran Myth (requires you to research a tech that provides nothing else, not even affinity experience, costs 750 production to build (that's 18.75 Old Earth Relics of production, a quest-upgraded OER provides +3 culture), and the only thing it does is give +4 culture).

Also, virtues have low impact in the early/mid game. A nice fix to the virtue generation could be nice.

Then you're not using them right. Virtue rushing the free Colonist is a very quick way of getting your second city, just like in Civ V. Having 10% extra growth from the start is very useful. Once you get to 10 science, the +10% science becomes useful. The 'science for killing aliens/razing nests' is very useful early in the game if you play aggressively. And for the mid-game...if you produce a lot of culture, you can get to the bottom of a virtue tree before the mid-game, allowing you to get some sick bonuses. Definitely not low-impact.

[Flying Dagger]

On virtues:
Free colonist I am meh about, the real kicker is the +2 population and the rapid deployment of outposts, as well as having your health issues go away "earlier" (industry's 0.2 health per building takes some time to ramp up). The prosperity tree is imo quite weak in late game: its strength lies in the ability to jump start your empire - similar to how the tradition tree used to do in Civ5.

Some virtues are dangerously good. +50% strategic resources? 0.25 science per population? +25% effectiveness to internal trade routes? Even a tier 1 virtue that gives +10% science when you are healthy (which is very easy to get once you get your virtues up and running), or 25% production to buildings already in your capital.

I just finished a game using a prosperity->Knowledge start. Prosperity def jump started my game, as if I am 20 turns ahead of my usual pace, yet, late game I am *really* missing out the production from industry, buildings might take a turn or two longer to build (and by turn 150+, every turn means a lot: as war usually last only ~20 turns as long as you can abuse the teleporter).

I like how virtue trees work a lot better than social policy trees.



On wonders:

Yeah, some of them are lame, but the others are extremely strong. Deep memory = 2 free virtues! Early game you can get the ectogenesis pod (and unlike the great library, it's reachable) and it's extremely strong, esp if you are going with the Purity farm spam. There are other awesome effects like +1 worker movement, +15% strength when defending, etc, etc. The New Terran Myth might just be a troll wonder -_-.


On Ultrasonic fence:
I am undecided about this. On one hand, I played the past 10 games without ever getting it. On the other hand, I was smart enough to expand right next to 3 alien nests in just my previous game and there were a good 12+ aliens roaming outside my town... oh, and to make matters better, direct path to the rest of my city is cover my miasma so it was impossible to trade.

I ended up biting the bullet and spent my gold on the ultrasonic fence: I guess it did work as advertised and kept the aliens away. However, the quest did not come until a good 30 turns later (RNG!), and by then i have already lost 3-4 trade convoys to roaming aliens .



On quests:

I love the quests. They give you small customization. While some are no brainers (such as +1 health to pharmacies), there are some harder ones like... do I want another agent, or 10% growth? Do I want an agent or 10% worker speed?

They also give the world a flavor, something I really like about Beyond Earth (I spent time reading the encyclopedia entries as well).



I see Civ:BE as a game that shoots an arrow very close to the target but falls shy of its mark. I am really curious what balance patches and expansion packs can add to the game.

[Hooves]

Just like with Civ V, from what I'm hearing. I'm sure they will expand more on Civ:BE, and just improve it even more with future expansions. Just dusting off that Alpha Centauri vibe with the release version.

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

I only build one Ultrasonic Fence just to get the quest to protect trade routes. I just don't see a need for it otherwise.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

On virtues:
Free colonist I am meh about, the real kicker is the +2 population and the rapid deployment of outposts, as well as having your health issues go away "earlier" (industry's 0.2 health per building takes some time to ramp up). The prosperity tree is imo quite weak in late game: its strength lies in the ability to jump start your empire - similar to how the tradition tree used to do in Civ5.

Funny, +2 population is imo the least useful. It's rather too deep to be useful early and just a bit later you have trade routes for whatever those 2 pops are supposed to be doing. Prosperity with Artists as Kavitha taking the free colonist, my second city is essentially a second capital with how early it founds, often before I even finished the Pioneering tech so it ruins my quest progression for the free soldier lol.
=============

As I play some more, I also found that self-founding cities past 7 is probably detrimental to your sanity. While they do indeed give more of everything, managing them all is just hell.

Originally Posted by Mr Hat and Clogs

I only build one Ultrasonic Fence just to get the quest to protect trade routes. I just don't see a need for it otherwise.

I agree. Though if you can, build it in a coastal colony so you can safely shoot at those pesky aliens blocking your algae tiles without waiting too long for a better ship.

[Flying Dagger]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Funny, +2 population is imo the least useful. It's rather too deep to be useful early and just a bit later you have trade routes for whatever those 2 pops are supposed to be doing. Prosperity with Artists as Kavitha taking the free colonist, my second city is essentially a second capital with how early it founds, often before I even finished the Pioneering tech so it ruins my quest progression for the free soldier lol.

I go Old Earth Relic first with artists, together they give +5 culture per turn. Usually by the time I expand I would already have the +2 population. The 2 pop I find help jump start a city so it is not just working on a single tile (I dont take the extra colonist tech until after +2 pop so it lines up better with my mass expansion - iunno, maybe I can try swapping them around, I can see how getting a super early colonist can really help, esp if you just buy the trade depot and use it to start cranking out the convoys).

I usually expand around turn 40-50. Would last until ~turn 70, in which the next 20 turns seem to just be setting up trade routes. If everything go according to plan, in a standard game I would be cranking out CNDRs by turn 140 (with purity I opt for the battlesuit rush if I have an attractive target nearby - so far I have managed to lower it to turn ~95ish, heard ppl getting battlesuits out by T80...).

[VDZ]

Originally Posted by Flying Dagger

While some are no brainers (such as +1 health to pharmacies)

While there are real no-brainers (free maintenance or +1 culture per city way at the start of the game? Hmmm, let me think real hard), that quest isn't one. There are strategies which involve simply not ever getting back above -20, making bonus health useless. Bonus science, on the other hand, is always welcome; even if you are planning on recovering eventually, if you spend a very long time below -20, the +1 science is attractive.

[Flying Dagger]

How well do the below -20 strats work? 3 tile-distance ICS where you just jam as many cities as possible into a plot of land and rely on spamming trade routes to 3 core hubs?

If you are planning to stay at below -20, then a pharmacy is not needed in the first place...

Actually I think it might be a real viable strat since building health related buildings (pharmacy, soma, gene garden, etc) does consume quite a few building cycles, yet, the -50% growth seem too brutal to deal with.

There should be some build enabling wonders, such as a wonder that reduces the growth penalty down to -20% growth at -20 health, or something that reduces your global production by 50% but also reduces the cost of buying buildings/units by 60%.


Edit:
I realize why I dont like using the ambassador as supremacy: instead of getting a +range strength bonus at the last tier, they get +1 attack.
The issue is that because of their weak range strength, they are very weak against attacks from cities.

[Tornado The Dragon]

trailer looks sweet.

when's it coming out?

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Tornado The Dragon

trailer looks sweet.

when's it coming out?

It's already out

[DragoonKain3]

One thing I really liked about purity: their tacjet. +40% against Air/Sea units lets them do decent damage even against 100+ STR units/cities. Auto-healing combined with +5 healing from quest and +10 healing from that one harmony tech, and you can bombard all turn, every turn. Really useful on atlantean maps... run around with 3x carriers with 3xjets each and support them with a dragoon to take over cities.

With +2 naval movement from observatories, this becomes quite obscene... it's so good that I thought lev battleships sucks in comparison. (Y no lev carriers? XD) Only problem is that a fully loaded carrier is like three times the production of one battleship, but good thing it doesn't cost any resources AND you can carry over legacy fighters easily.

I hate their victory condition though. I can see problems with it, but luckily had one side of my capital unsettled. With mag rails setup and settling farthest first, 20 turns upon building the gate is a cinch. But if you're on smaller maps and had to settle near your capital, I can see how this is head-ache inducing. XD

[Flying Dagger]

I read that placing a node (tile improvement) next to your city will cause it to affect planes as well.

Purity has a lot of tools for taking cities. They got their 3 ranger artillery, they can opt for a +50% strength vs city dragoons, their planes do good dmg vs cities as well.

Thing is: I feel they got far too many anti-city tools compared to the others. SABR is way too limited by its crappy 1 movement. You have to move in into position (1 turn/even with teleporter), use 1 turn to set it up, then start bombarding.

Dragoons need to be nerfed. The 10% per unused movement is far too strong since you get full movement while defending.

[Tiberium Wolf]

Originally Posted by VDZ

You're really missing out on important stuff by ignoring them. Many quests net affinity experience, and non-tech affinity experience is very useful as it means you have to research less techs to get to higher affinities (especially level 13 for the win condition). Other quests net you science, production and culture, and there's even a quest that gives you a unique wonder.

You are missing the important points. The quest are always the same. When you don't actually need to see the quest to have them complete means they are complete shit that give bonus with minimal effort.


In terms of innovation from Civ V is practically nil.

[Flying Dagger]

I think it is a good balance. It offers flavor text for those who want a story, yet also offer a clear choice for those who just want to "play".

I guess it might have been better if they don't tell you "pick this option to get affinity in supremacy". That would force people to read the quest texts.

I really like the tech web and how the affinity upgrades work. At the very least, I think it is a step in the right direction. Unlike in Civ5 where everyone has the same rifleman, in Civ:BE the affinity units are slightly different. In fact, I want to see them separate the various upgrade lines even further. Though I admit I just want to see truly distinct races like in starcraft.

[DragoonKain3]

Hard to have distinct races when they're all human.

Seriously speaking, I personally like the 'build as you go approach.' Was planning to go supremacy but notice you have lots of xenomass and no firaxite in the lands around you? Go harmony instead. Freaking loads of floatstone but no titanium? Skip Battlesuits and rush affinity to get tanks.

As for Dragoons needing nerf... it's a good unit, don't get me wrong, but mass Redeemers are no joke and much less a hassle mixing and matching your units. Like they get +20% bonus on defending if paired (almost the +30% from dragoons, and massing them means you always have them adjacent to at least one other), and they can attack cities at almost the same strength as Dragoons with their +20% next to another unit and another +30% flanking (which you should always get since you're massing them anyway). This flanking and paired bonuses works on ANY unit, not just cities too. I mean, two Redeemers can win against a Xeno Titan if they get the jump on it, while two Dragoons cannot.



I also liked this version much more than Civ5. Warmongering is actually very viable even in massive maps, and the victory of choice in slower speeds like Marathon (I like generally being peaceful and all, but sometimes I just want to smash face... I blame Master of Magic for that ). Strength of your core units is not tied to particular technological landmarks, but through constant progression of affinity levels, which allows you to mix and match which tech you want in order to get the upgrades. Choices in the beginning does not define what your civilization is, and playing harmony feels a lot different than playing the other two (such a shame purity/supremacy feels a lot alike though admittedly their military plays A LOT different).

One thing I miss though is psi combat from alpha centauri, because if nothing else it made alien units feel a lot more alien. Nothing like 3+ mindworms instilling fear early game if they go straight for your colonies. XD

[Mr Hat and Clogs]

Im sure future DLC will includee at least one alien race. If not, Mods ahoy.