US Elections 2012 Part I: The Primaries/Caucus

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Vexx

Oh, Perry is "qualifed" (though Texas politics is a very different 'aminal than federal politics and I don't think governorship has a lot of bearing on presidential skills)... its just that he's apparently an ill-educated zealot Dominionist in the pockets of the plutocrat division. As you say, none of these candidates are impressive. I could probably tolerate Huntsman or gone-now Pawlenty, perhaps Gingrich even, but the rest are simply dangerous and stupid. Quite obstinately stupid it seems unless they're lying through their teeth to fool the wingnut base. Ron Paul is in his own circle ... I think it'd be really interesting to watch if he stuck to his stated principles in office (before the Big Boys had him assassinated after he went Teddy Roosevelt on their gold-plated feeding troughs ).

Obama got hung out to dry by the corporate wings of both parties and Bush spent some trillions of dollars off the books and literally bleeding our military personnel to death while cutting taxes on the ultra-wealthy to the lowest in history - and now the bill is being foisted on the Everyone Else rather than the bastards that put us there. Profits are the highest in history (read entire human history) for a very small group at the expense of Everyone Else and they seem to be pursuing a scorched earth policy in regard to Main Street at the moment.

Vexx, Why don't you run for Office?

It is my beliefs is that we got too damn many lawyers in office. One reason i think China has manage so well in the 30 or yrs is that the majority of the people run things in China are NOT lawyers. All you have to look is at the Supreme court which is made up entirely of lawyers. This countries need more engineers and scientist in position of power.

[GundamFan0083]

Ron Paul Debate: Rick Perry Physically Grabs Him, Points at His Face
http://img.ibtimes.com/www/articles/...eptember-7.htm

Perry is clearly a bully, and that's the last thing we need in the White House.
IMHO, Rick Perry's actions towards Ron Paul show a level of childishness rivaled only by tin-plated dictators on the last century.

There's something sinister behind that faux-Texas smile on Perry's face, and it troubles me greatly.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by ChainLegacy

Lol, you assume because I'm bashing Perry, I'm an Obama fan? Wouldn't mind if both Obama and Perry disappeared from the planet tomorrow, actually I'd be quite pleased. Only politicians I have any respect for are Ron Paul and Kucinich.

Now as for your question, I don't care if he ran the state for two million years. If he's willing to say with 100% conviction that he does not second guess any of the people he's sent to death, how can ANYONE call him qualified? Even if you're pro death-penalty, even if you LOVE the death penalty for some morbid reason... never second guessing a decision that determines the outcome of someone's LIFE? UHHH??

I am very pro-death penalty. I dont know how any sane person cant support the death penalty in at least some circumstances. The idea that you would let a serial killer live out the rest of their natural life on tax payer money, is such a foreign idea to me. Have innocent people been exefuted? I have no doubt it has happened in the past, and I have no doubt it will happen in the future. How many have been executed, we will never truly know. What we can do, is get as much evidence as we can to prove innocence or guilt. It takes years to put someone to death. It is not like they are sentenced to die, then executed that weekend.

Xellos: Exactly how much have we spent in Afghanistan and Iraq combined? I doubt it is 'trillions' as you mentioned. Though I could see it being over 1 trillion for both over ten years. Obama's stimulus bill was over 800 billion and that was one bill. Tonight's speech mentioned a 450 billion dollar jobs bill. Again, we are talking one bill. It will take years before we realize how much Obama's Healthcare plan will end up costing us.

No matter what political party you support, they all are really good spending money with no accountability. Between Bush and Obama, our total debt will have more than doubled, if not tripled by the time both of them are gone.

I might be able to post a.couple more times tonight before my battery dies. It doesnt look like Southern California will be getting its' power back until tomorrow...

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Xellos: Exactly how much have we spent in Afghanistan and Iraq combined? I doubt it is 'trillions' as you mentioned. Though I could see it being over 1 trillion for both over ten years. Obama's stimulus bill was over 800 billion and that was one bill. Tonight's speech mentioned a 450 billion dollar jobs bill. Again, we are talking one bill. It will take years before we realize how much Obama's Healthcare plan will end up costing us.

No matter what political party you support, they all are really good spending money with no accountability. Between Bush and Obama, our total debt will have more than doubled, if not tripled by the time both of them are gone.

I might be able to post a.couple more times tonight before my battery dies. It doesnt look like Southern California will be getting its' power back until tomorrow...

i just check, best current estimate is 1.2 trillion 8iraq/4afghan. No idea what that figure includes or not includes.

maybe Gore would have still waste that money but even the chance are greater that the 800billion would have been wasted in the US. With the money going into the US economy not in a foreign country.


Regarding your power outage, the country could definitely have used that money on upgrading/rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure.

[ChainLegacy]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

I am very pro-death penalty. I dont know how any sane person cant support the death penalty in at least some circumstances. The idea that you would let a serial killer live out the rest of their natural life on tax payer money, is such a foreign idea to me. Have innocent people been exefuted? I have no doubt it has happened in the past, and I have no doubt it will happen in the future. How many have been executed, we will never truly know. What we can do, is get as much evidence as we can to prove innocence or guilt. It takes years to put someone to death. It is not like they are sentenced to die, then executed that weekend.

I respect your stance on the death penalty. What I don't respect is Perry's apparent blind faith in his state's legal system, his lack of willingness to go back, ponder and analyze these critical decisions with anything but complete confidence, and the sheer ego capable of producing such a viewpoint in the first place.

Really, I'm not sure about the death penalty. Certainly some animalistic part of me would like some of the more heinous acts to be met with lethal force. But that's really not even the point. What's so sickening was his utter conviction, his inability to second-guess, to reconsider, and the smug, arrogant expression he presented in saying so. He's talking about people's LIVES here. Someone with so little deference on a matter of such critical importance, on a matter of such all-encompassing finality for the convicted... It's just wrong on some basic level from a moral standpoint, and in my humble opinion somewhat psychotic.

[DonQuigleone]

Death is too good for serial killers. Let them live out their lives in despair, solitude and boredom.

Personally, I'd shunt them all onto some small island somewhere, with the means to grow themselves enough food to feed themselves, and nothing else...

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

i just check, best current estimate is 1.2 trillion 8iraq/4afghan. No idea what that figure includes or not includes.

maybe Gore would have still waste that money but even the chance are greater that the 800billion would have been wasted in the US. With the money going into the US economy not in a foreign country.


Regarding your power outage, the country could definitely have used that money on upgrading/rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure.

I have lived in California 30 of my 31 years. My dad has essentially lived here since 1971 when he came to San Diego after his first tour in Vietnam. So i can speak with comple confidence in this statement. The reason California has had rolling blackouts, and now today's problem, is because the environmentalists will not allow us to build more power plants. We rely heavily on electricity from neighboring states. Today for ezample, a power line connecting Arizona to Southern California faild(or was cut depending on who you talk to). That caused an increased stress on our system here, whixh triggered a power outtage. San onofre nuclear power plant shut down in response to the overloaded grid, and now millions are without power.

Until the Democrats sweat it out with no AC for a few days in 100 degree weather, they will not understand just how screwed California's energy situation really is...

[Reckoner]

@justinstrife

You can't use the $$ of the taxpayers argument for that. It costs just as much, if not more to put someone to death due to court fees and appeals, etc.

Whether or not it is the better moral choice I won't comment though.

[Lost Cause]

In regards to tonights speech, I was reminded of a tent revival and the minister preaching to the faithful, then passing around the collection basket! Another $450 billon tagged on to $14+ trillion we already owe. I think it's time we took the checkbook away from them!

[DonQuigleone]

I support the US going further into debt in order to reduce unemployment and stimulate the economy, not much else though.

[Sugetsu]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

I dont know how any sane person cant support the death penalty in at least some circumstances.

No human system is perfect, therefore, you will always be bound to make mistakes. With the death penalty YOU WILL kill innocent people no matter how much "proof" you got. You don't solve problems in society by suppression, you deal with the them by going to the root cause. People who commit horrible crimes suffer from some kind of disorder that needs to be addressed so that future individuals don't do the same.

[DonQuigleone]

Originally Posted by Sugetsu

No human system is perfect, therefore, you will always be bound to make mistakes. With the death penalty YOU WILL kill innocent people no matter how much "proof" you got. You don't solve problems in society by suppression, you deal with the them by going to the root cause. People who commit horrible crimes suffer from some kind of disorder that needs to be addressed so that future individuals don't do the same.

Eh, in some cases we can reduce the causes of crime, particularly regarding gang and drug related crime.

But I don't think we can ever be rid of psychopaths. They'll always be with us. The best we can do is shunt every psychopath we find onto some misbegotten tropical island and let them create their own society. Heck, it would be an interesting experiment, how a society would function where every member has no moral sense whatsoever.

[Ithekro]

Political debates have been effectively useless since 1960 due to television. Or more specifically the ability to work the camera or look good on camera. It has been suggested that in the 1960 Presidential debates, Nixon was actually the better debater, but he looked horrid on the old studio cameras, while JFK looks grand on camera. Gone are the old style multi hour debates (Lincoln vs Douglas). The ADHD pubic cannot handle it anymore.

As for the death penalty...it depends on if science and medicine can correct such conditions in the future (without turning us nearly mindless I mean), or if such things are enviromental and thus social problems rather than medical problems. (It would be really bad is most cases of homocidal murder are committed because of a bacterial infection of the brain). But the question of money comes up from time to time....long term care for lifers (no parole guys) or just kill them, since they are likely never going to go anything every again outside of jail. Some even suggest bringing back the use of the bullet as the means of execution...only giving the sentanced to die a choice of caliber. I'm pretty sure there are people that would volunteer to be executers even in this day and age.


As for Vexx for President....are we sure America is ready for a Tsundere First Lady?

[Sugetsu]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Eh, in some cases we can reduce the causes of crime, particularly regarding gang and drug related crime.

But I don't think we can ever be rid of psychopaths. They'll always be with us. The best we can do is shunt every psychopath we find onto some misbegotten tropical island and let them create their own society. Heck, it would be an interesting experiment, how a society would function where every member has no moral sense whatsoever.

You simply don't understand that as human beings we are dependent on one another. You are advocating division and isolation on some sectors of society, which is just another form of suppression. If you want to solve gang and drug related violence then legalize drugs, the war on drug is one of the biggest mistakes in human history.

The mental imbalances present in psychopaths be addressed either by science or fixing our social structure, maybe with a little of both. The problem is society has not directed enough attention to treating psychopathy.

Killing people off just because we do not or are not willing to understand the root causes is just treating the symptoms but not the problem. Suppression is delusion because nothing can be contained.

I am not gonna derail this thread, so this is the last I will say about death penalty.

[DonQuigleone]

@drug crime: I didn't express any opinion about it, other then the fact that it can be reduced through government policy.

@psychopaths: Pychopaths can't be treated, people have tried numerous times. At best they become better at hiding their psychopathy. The other issue with psychopaths is that they have no desire to be treated, and they also have no guilt and no compunctions against lying.

I would advocate sequestering serial psychopathic criminals from society at large. They are untreatable. The minute you let them out they'll just commit some other crime nearly immediately. It's actually interesting to read about the disorder. We can never be sure to understand psychopaths, as we can never be sure they're telling the truth. Psychopaths pathologically lie.

However I agree this is a bit offtopic, and will also refrain from here on in. Like to get my final word in though

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

As for the death penalty...it depends on if science and medicine can correct such conditions in the future (without turning us nearly mindless I mean), or if such things are enviromental and thus social problems rather than medical problems.

We actually can. It is called resocialisation - all we need are plenty of tanks filled with fluids and devices to chocolate-cover memories.

Then we give them Gauss rifles and send them to the 38th Parallel in medivacs; a 99.9% guarantee of ROK-US relationships to improve tremendously.

As for Vexx for President....are we sure America is ready for a Tsundere First Lady?

If it helps to fix the strained US-Japan relationship for the past decade due to Futenmma, Shittyhara and the brainless/mindless ultranationalists on both sides, why not?

Then again, Vexx's wife should be the US president instead. She could have been another iron lady.

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Then again, Vexx's wife should be the US president instead. She could have been another iron lady.

That's an interesting idea.... since she's a progressive who understands how to budget for the most bang with available revenues, knows when it is important enough to raise revenues, and tends to kick butt and take names if everyone in the 'group' isn't helping the 'group' in what ways they can since they benefit from being in the 'group'. (you can insert 'family', 'club', 'company', 'city', 'state', etc for 'group')

[Ascaloth]

Originally Posted by Vexx

That's an interesting idea.... since she's a progressive who understands how to budget for the most bang with available revenues, knows when it is important enough to raise revenues, and tends to kick butt and take names if everyone in the 'group' isn't helping the 'group' in what ways they can since they benefit from being in the 'group'. (you can insert 'family', 'club', 'company', 'city', 'state', etc for 'group')

In short, she'd be the kind of President who'd make folks like justinstrife start a whole new, uniquely American "Eat-Your-Own-Gun Day"?

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by GundamFan0083

Ron Paul Debate: Rick Perry Physically Grabs Him, Points at His Face
http://img.ibtimes.com/www/articles/...eptember-7.htm

Perry is clearly a bully, and that's the last thing we need in the White House.
IMHO, Rick Perry's actions towards Ron Paul show a level of childishness rivaled only by tin-plated dictators on the last century.

There's something sinister behind that faux-Texas smile on Perry's face, and it troubles me greatly.

Sometimes, godlike egomanical behaviour is triggered by drug usage, especially cocaine. Anyway I don't think its much better if someone acts like being on cocaine without actually using it. Can you imagine the potential consequences if such a person was using cocaine then?

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

Thank God Gore or Kerry were not elected, as they make Bush seem competent in comparison.

Well I think Xellos took the words right out of my mouth.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

since neither were president, we don't how it would have work out. But i do think if Gore was president, there would have been much lower chance of the US getting into 2 wars.

i don't know about you Justin, but i could care less if there is democracy in Iraq. I do however care very much about the trillions this country had waste in Iraq.

A-fucking-men to that dude. I do however agree to that part about our not having a real democracy. It's always about who holds the money, and hence, the power. It's a matter of how much less shitty it is living in here than in other places with power hungry bastards. It's just about who can jump through loopholes and such the best. Vote for the best hoola-hoop champion!

The red candidates this time around seem like a joke. As far as competence goes, it's all about Romney. And Ron Paul, but the media doesn't give a shit about him.