Hanasaku Iroha - Episode 24 Discussion / Poll

[Archon_Wing]

"I really don't understand what old people are saying" lawl, Ohana.

This episode grandma finally decides to ragequit because people suck. In a desperate attempt to not get the show cancelled, the crew must convince grandma that it is indeed, getting better, and thus everyone scrambles to develop their character and attempt to resolve plotlines.

Wut, the guys didn't fuck up? Well, Ko didn't fuck up too badly, mainly by doing nothing. Though he kinda screwed up at the end when he started yelling in public like a moron, but umm nice accomplishment. I did seriously lol when he was afraid that Ohana was picking Kissuio over him.

Then we had Minko and an emo moment. Well, Tooru did succesfully pull something out of his hat and it was defused. My god, every time Minko smiles, a Kitten dies.

Also, the manga was written by Jinomaru. He did something good but it didn't sell? Hmm, I wonder if PA works is alluding to something...

However, with everyone realizing their appreciation for the place, it's Sui that's on the verge of quitting. It was a pretty good character development on her part; her realizing that the inn was all for her goals and ideals and how'd she rather just free everyone who may or may not belong there. It's up to them to convince Sui otherwise but that's not gonna be an easy task. But they might just be slowly breaking through by the way they know best... by being extremely annoying.

There were also some lol wut moments, including the heron and that silly random bath scene complete with omnious music (well, warranted) that kept me laughing so I was satisifed.

The future isn't very clear; might as well just laugh at the present. 9/10

[Decagon]

They didn't look close enough in the preview, so I helped a bit.

[ID555]

Damn Minchi and Tooru look good together. Alas, Tooru is completely unaffected by her. Also, completely understand Ko's emotional high when he did that victory yell. Nice way to end Ko and Ohana's bit.

Shit, it's going to end soon, isn't it? T_T

[RegalStar]

Old people who think that they know better about other people than those people themselves seriously need their heads hit by a two-by-four.

[Syntron]

Originally Posted by Decagon

They didn't look close enough in the preview, so I helped a bit.

That is still not close enough for my taste. But the preview is trolling us anyway. Ohana will either end up with Ko or forever alone. Nako may admire Ohana for her energetic habitus, but she is allready with Eri, so zero chance of that troll beeing anything else then just that.

[Roger Rambo]

As expected. The tension with Ko was awkwardly rushed through in six minutes, and we went straight back to the inn. Which I'll openly admit was the lions share of what made this episode good. Conflict with Grandma (who apparently has supernatural body washing skills!) is taking the center stage, and she's turning into quite the final boss. I suppose her problem is because of all the unhappiness the inn caused her children when they were growing up, she's thinking of the Inn as capable of bringing happiness to anybody aside from herself. So she's convinced herself she has to take it out back and shoot it.

If this is the kind of mentality Sui has developed, it does make quite a bit of senses why Enishi/Takako have gotten quite a bit of development during this second season. As much as Grandma likes allot of the developing traits Ohana has, she isn't capable of running an inn. So sending Enishi through tribulations/trials by fire to get him out of his sisters shadow is vital if you want the inn to stay alive.

Also. Jiramouru ACTUALLY isn't a complete hack writer! It seems he actually was involved with something that emotionally touched at least a small group of people. Though it turned out to be QUITE the shocking realization to both Tohru and Minko.



I think I'll reiterate the spirit of what I said last episode. the whole Ko/Ohana thing was a matter of the two groups contesting it would happen missing two things.

-People who didn't think Ko/Ohana was happening (me included) missed out on how much emphasis was put into the sentimental scenes between the two, even if they only consisted of phone calls. They were instead focusing on something else, which the Ko/Ohana shippers totally missed.

-Ko/Ohana shippers missed out on the fact that there WAS no nitty gritty relationship development between the two. There were plenty of *cute* emotional scenes, but nothing that told us how they really interacted together as a couple. So much of the show involved their acute separation, that nothing could really get developed. Hence having Ko *learn to love Kissou* by watching a damn video tape, then giving him and Ohana six minutes to sort out all the angst.


I suppose the misunderstanding comes from everybody assuming Ko/Ohana would be resolved in a well written manner. Shippers thought they'd come together more naturally/with build up, and *forever alone* advocates such as myself thought the lack of build up indicated they were doing something that they ended up not going for.

Although I used Ko/Ohana developing this way as an example of why it probably wouldn't happen, all our respective analysis probably would have been more accurate if we had accounted for sloppy writing.

Originally Posted by ID555

Damn Minchi and Tooru look good together. Alas, Tooru is completely unaffected by her. Also, completely understand Ko's emotional high when he did that victory yell. Nice way to end Ko and Ohana's bit.

Shit, it's going to end soon, isn't it? T_T

Ko's emotional high is rather refreshing, since he's largely been passive/ineffectual this entire show. Though really, he should have been demonstrating stuff like this MUCH earlier in the show if they wanted him to be a more rounded character.

[deadite]

Sigh.. more Ko hater ranting? Please just because you think it is underdeveloped doesn't mean it is fact. You try too hard.

[Roger Rambo]

Originally Posted by deadite

umad?

I am very mad! I AM HULK! RHAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!

Spoiler:

Seriously man. If you're not going to respond to any of my points, could you at least insult my sexuality, or imply improper carnal relations with my mother or donkey or something?

[ID555]

^ Now if Ohana ends up with Minchi or Nakochi, THERE'S a properly developed romance, right?

Personally though, Ko x Ohana was just one of the many elements of the show and I don't really care that he wasn't onscreen much. Nevertheless he's fleshed out enough that I'm happy he ends up with the heroine.

On the other hand, in retrospect, for all of Tooru's screentime and short role as a red herring, he really didn't get to do much.

[deadite]

Don't need to bother. Poster's Like Enzo and RRR have already summed up everything I like about Ko.

[totoum]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Although I used Ko/Ohana developing this way as an example of why it probably wouldn't happen, all our respective analysis probably would have been more accurate if we had accounted for sloppy writing.

I said this last episode and I'll say it again here,you're underestimating Okada's troll abilities if you think KouXOhana is a sure thing,I'll only believe in it if I see a kiss/love declaration,until then I believe i'm seeing one epic troll to shippers.

But if it does happen then my problem will be that it was a major case of telling instead of showing,Ohana tells us over and over again that she likes the guy but we havn't seen why,I would have apreciated a few tokyo flashback that showed how the grew close.

As for Sui I mostly agree with Triple R,he said pretty much what I wanted.

[Shadow5YA]

So after that's all said and done, Ko still hasn't tried to book a room at the Kissuiso, has he? He can't exactly room with Ohana since Minko is there too.

[vansonbee]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

So after that's all said and done, Ko still hasn't tried to book a room at the Kissuiso, has he? He can't exactly room with Ohana since Minko is there too.

Huh? Book a room? You know he's still a teenager right? Do you know how expensive to book a room at that Inn is? He only agree to meet Ohana on the day of the festival. Yes, I like the idea of him living there until after the festival, maybe gets some kicks at Minko, how Ohana has a boyfriend and she hasn't

[Manabu]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

So after that's all said and done, Ko still hasn't tried to book a room at the Kissuiso, has he? He can't exactly room with Ohana since Minko is there too.

We don't know if he already booked or not. One would hope he learned to book in advance from the last time... And he probably do have money to the travel, he works part time. In the worst case, I guess they can put him in the same room as Jiromaru-san. He may get to read some stories with Ohana in it.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Manabu

We don't know if he already booked or not. One would hope he learned to book in advance from the last time... And he probably do have money to the travel, he works part time. In the worst case, I guess they can put him in the same room as Jiromaru-san. He may get to read some stories with Ohana in it.

Horrible dilemma: punch Jiromaru, or ask for an autographed copy?

[MeoTwister5]

Something out of nothing.

The Kissuiso is not anymore just an inn but a family. Everyone there feels like a brother or sister to each other as they live and work together trying to make the inn as best a place as they can. They reacts as any family would if they learned the place they called home all these years would be closing down. The mental processes of Sui has been pretty much a mystery to everyone, both to the characters and even to us viewers. For the first time in the series her real feelings are revealed to Ohana, the daughter of her essentially partially disowned daughter. She reveals the regrets and the purported selfishness she has displayed over the years towards her family as she tried to live the life her husband wished for the both of them. Some will call her selfish, others selfless.

Selfish? Yes to some extent she is. By doing so she is disbanding a group that has become as strong and united as any blood related family unit could be. These people have come together, grown together, laughed together and cried together for years. To shut the inn down would be to split these people apart, all because she thinks she’s doing the right thing after all these years.

Selfless? Yes perhaps she is. The idea of the inn has pretty much dominated the lives of everyone involved, especially those of her descendants. She has a point: the family’s lives have been forced to revolve around the inn and it’s functions when they could have had the opportunity for other things. Satsuki’s rebellion had shown her how her iron fist had forced people to go away.

In the end I’m more inclined to thin that Sui has a slightly misplaced view of doing the right thing.

The Bonbori festival will undoubtedly be the climax of the show, where the resolution finds its way and where the finale will be set in stone. The lamp that Sui and her husband held is itself the aforementioned Bonbori, which is a direct indication of just how much the festival has meant for more than one generation in their family. It was apparently in the Bonbori that Sui made the promise with who was to be her husband and the eventual family patriarch. It is to be the place that Ohana finally settles things with Ko. Probably more importantly, it is to be the place that ultimately decides the fate of Kissuiso. The festival then becomes a place of paramount importance for all of them. Cliche perhaps, but it comes out as a very common thread for many of them, how one place and one event had set in motion events in the past, and how it would set things in motion for the future. The Bonbori festival birthed the inn that was Kissuiso, and it may become either that which renews it, or finally puts it to rest.

[Triple_R]

I still can't help but think that people are developing an overly idealized conception of an Inn, and that's resulting in people not fully appreciating Sui's position.

An Inn is first and foremost a commercial enterprise. Now, the people who work there can legitimately develop a sentimental attachment to it (and to one another), but at the end of the day, if a commercial enterprise is continually bleeding cash it's going to go under (barring wealthy benefactors keeping it going, or some parent company eating up a lost to keep it going - neither is at play here).

Sui has a struggling commercial enterprise, is near the point of having to retire, and she sees no potential heir that is both able and willing to manage the Inn and manage it well (Enishi she views as willing but unable, Satsuki as able but unwilling).

Now she may buttress these cold, hard facts with defensible and sincere emotional/selfless reasons for wanting to shut down the inn, but the primary reason is the cold, hard facts of the situation. I really don't see how anybody can fault her for her reasoning there. Her assessment of Enishi may yet be proven wrong, but she has good reason for having that current assessment of him.

[Manabu]

I understand Sui, but I also don't agree with her. She thinks he knows better than the kissuisou staff what is good for them. First of all, she wants to throw them all on the curb so they are forced to find the way for their own dreams. But what guarantees that they will be more sucessfull or closer to their dreams that way? Especially the girls, that seems to really like/need the work they do in the inn, and will have more dificulties findind another place that employes high schoolers.

She also forgets that she helped shaping their dreams, and now their dreams are in line with kissuisou inn's future. Enishi and Ohana aren't working there now driven by duty, or by the need of a successor for the inn, but because their work on the inn became their "true nature" (term stolen from haibane renmei..).

I agree that noone there (except Satsuki, I will be back on her in a moment) can replace Sui, but they all together may fill in eachother's fails and sucessfully manage the inn. I guess we will see if it is truth or not in the following episodes.

Satsuki:

As for Satsuki, although she clearly and repeatedly refused inerith kissuisou, since the middle of the series she began to think and care more about the inn. The many times that she dials to them, the new article, the setup in Tokyo Tower, the reactions she had to the film, etc.

At the same time, by the scenes in the last episode, and even the first tokyo arc, she also seems less interested in her work as writer now, compared with what was shown in the first two episodes of the series. Even further, she didn't get any other scum as boyfriend since the moonlight escape. Maybe she is getting past her rebelious phase, and will come back to take the inn when needed. I see this as a somewhat strong possibility unfolding, but not really obvious yet.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I still can't help but think that people are developing an overly idealized conception of an Inn, and that's resulting in people not fully appreciating Sui's position.

An Inn is first and foremost a commercial enterprise. Now, the people who work there can legitimately develop a sentimental attachment to it (and to one another), but at the end of the day, if a commercial enterprise is continually bleeding cash it's going to go under (barring wealthy benefactors keeping it going, or some parent company eating up a lost to keep it going - neither is at play here).

Sui has a struggling commercial enterprise, is near the point of having to retire, and she sees no potential heir that is both able and willing to manage the Inn and manage it well (Enishi she views as willing but unable, Satsuki as able but unwilling).

Now she may buttress these cold, hard facts with defensible and sincere emotional/selfless reasons for wanting to shut down the inn, but the primary reason is the cold, hard facts of the situation. I really don't see how anybody can fault her for her reasoning there. Her assessment of Enishi may yet be proven wrong, but she has good reason for having that current assessment of him.

I agree that "we're broke and can't operate anymore" is an excellent reason to close down. But things are finally looking up, everyone's ready and eager for one last toss of the dice - and that's when she wants to give up? No discussion, no compromise, nothing?

[Flower]

Hmm ... finally watched ep 24 last night, and also found myself liking it. 7/10 vote from me!

I really do find the character of Sui to be the most interesting in this series ... she is very convincing, and alternates between great sensitivity (almost nobility at times) and uncompromising, hardheadedness so fast and quickly with very little "inconsistency" ... if you get my meaning.

But yes - as Manabu said, I can totally see where she is coming from, but I also do not agree with what she is doing. On a similar front it has been nice to see the other members standing up to her!