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View Poll Results: Mahouka LN - Steeplechase Chapter (Volume 13) Rating
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Old 2014-07-20, 07:46   Link #2301
Echizen777
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Originally Posted by Verisimilitude View Post
Actually, the much more serious issue is how the TMC will react to any serious attempt to wrest away their authority. Right now it's just plotting, but if push comes to shove, things can go downhill very quickly.
I actually wonder if Ancient Magic users have a chance. Must be because their magic is not well represented but I don't see how they could rival the TMC with their powerful modern magics.
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Old 2014-07-20, 13:09   Link #2302
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What's with Kyokou's betrayal??Was it really that harmful to the Tatsuya?
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Old 2014-07-20, 13:14   Link #2303
XFire
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Originally Posted by pampz21 View Post
Well I think Tatsuya is a M =)

I guess its probably because of Erika

Reading it again; made Tatsuya extremely creppish ......
Pampz, you think the sun rises because of Erica.
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Old 2014-07-20, 15:35   Link #2304
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Pampz, you think the sun rises because of Erica.
Rather than the sun; Erika is life~
which is kinda fun cuz if you reverse it akire, is a variation for akira which can mean as bright, clear and morning sun~
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Old 2014-07-20, 16:23   Link #2305
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Common useage of dono is to adress someone respectfully while making it clear that they are not above you which sama implies.
Sama implies that the recipient is in a position of extremely high authority and should be almost revered. It is the suffix they use when speaking of Gods, or people worthy of admiration. Dono can still mean that the person in question is above you. If you're of equal stature then referring to someone by only family name is not out of the question.
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Old 2014-07-20, 17:45   Link #2306
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Rather than the sun; Erika is life~
which is kinda fun cuz if you reverse it akire, is a variation for akira which can mean as bright, clear and morning sun~
Too bad she keeps getting the shit kicked out of her to show how badass other girls are.
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Old 2014-07-20, 23:49   Link #2307
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Too bad she keeps getting the shit kicked out of her to show how badass other girls are.
Lina and Minami....... next, Ayako?
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Old Yesterday, 01:44   Link #2308
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Lina and Minami....... next, Ayako?
Actually her fight with Lina established her as pretty damn strong, considering Lina is among the top of the American magicians. Minami stomping her had more to do with Erika being curious to what Minami had up her sleeve than a one-sided curb-stomping. It's like when you play a video game where you have quick saves so you "experiment" to see what a boss can do by running straight at them. I'd rank her #2 of the girls in Tatsuya's year if it wasn't for Shizuku's Phonon Maser.
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Old Yesterday, 02:43   Link #2309
pampz21
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Too bad she keeps getting the shit kicked out of her to show how badass other girls are.
Too bad its only a magic battle.
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Old Yesterday, 04:44   Link #2310
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Too bad its only a magic battle.
Erika lost in a 3vs1 fight where she had support from both Leo and Mari against Lu gonghu. "Following that, Erika sighed deeply. Man, I still lost."

Also Lina was handicapped in several ways in their fight. It was specifically stated in the lightnovel that Lina was focusing the majority of her attention on the parasite because that was her objective, she was also constantly using magic power to maintain her parade disguise while not even having brionac.

Erika is certainly strong for a high schooler and especially strong for a course two student but she certainly isn't anywhere near top tier in combat strength. Just to clarify by top tier I mean people like Tatsuya, Miyuki, Lina, Maya, Katsuo and Mayumi.
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Old Yesterday, 05:34   Link #2311
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Originally Posted by somerand View Post
Erika lost in a 3vs1 fight where she had support from both Leo and Mari against Lu gonghu. "Following that, Erika sighed deeply. Man, I still lost."

Also Lina was handicapped in several ways in their fight. It was specifically stated in the lightnovel that Lina was focusing the majority of her attention on the parasite because that was her objective, she was also constantly using magic power to maintain her parade disguise while not even having brionac.

Erika is certainly strong for a high schooler and especially strong for a course two student but she certainly isn't anywhere near top tier in combat strength. Just to clarify by top tier I mean people like Tatsuya, Miyuki, Lina, Maya, Katsuo and Mayumi.
Erika lose the fight with Lu; because she was testing Lu; both have their own specialty but Erika dared to go against Lu's specialty thats why she said she lost.

The battle with Lina is that both of them had limited resourced;and why would Lina comment that Erika was that strong? Erika didnt used any magic in her fight with Lina.bottom line is Erika lose because she lack magic; that is what I meant with magic battle. And the thing about Lina not focusing in the fight is her mentality problem; Miyuki dont stand a chance against a full equip Lina; even Tatsuya. MB has too much range that he can get caught with its blast while Lina can conpress her heavy metal burst. In the end Tatsuya isnt the strongest; you can say its Lina; or Maya.

Lets go back to the topic:
Are the Seagusa twins participating on the 9Sc?
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Old Yesterday, 07:04   Link #2312
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Erika lose the fight with Lu; because she was testing Lu; both have their own specialty but Erika dared to go against Lu's specialty thats why she said she lost.

The battle with Lina is that both of them had limited resourced;and why would Lina comment that Erika was that strong? Erika didnt used any magic in her fight with Lina.bottom line is Erika lose because she lack magic; that is what I meant with magic battle. And the thing about Lina not focusing in the fight is her mentality problem; Miyuki dont stand a chance against a full equip Lina; even Tatsuya. MB has too much range that he can get caught with its blast while Lina can conpress her heavy metal burst. In the end Tatsuya isnt the strongest; you can say its Lina; or Maya.

Lets go back to the topic:
Are the Seagusa twins participating on the 9Sc?
How in the world did you come to the conclusion that Lina is the strongest ?

Erika lot the fight because she was testing Lu ? She already knew he was one of the top 10 close combat specialists in the world, she had nothing to test, in fact she's the one who is leagues weaker than him if anyone would be testing the other it would be Lu. Erika is a strong fighter but that's all, yes he lacks magic and that is the cause for her being much weaker than the world's strongest, that's the reality.
As for Tatsuya being weaker Lina, that doesn't even make sense. Tatsuya defeated her every time they had to fight. And if you're talking about the fight where she had Brioniac, Tatsuya was even more limited than she was, he had the seal maintained by Miyuki still active and just like Lina was trying not to kill Tatsuya he was doing the same thing, all he did was create a few small holes in her body and he didn't use his most lethal magic to kill magicians aka "Trident", and she is pretty damn lucky that her magic's nature makes it annoying that if he decomposes it while activating it will just blow up which isn't some kind of strategy made by Lina or anything, just lucky affinity really, like Katsuto's barriers vs Tatsuya.
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Old Yesterday, 09:50   Link #2313
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Somerand said everything about Erika VS Lina. Erika was clearly faced someone too strong for her with the intent to kill while Lina was holding back because she knew Erika's identity. Even with that she had a lot of bruises.

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As for Tatsuya being weaker Lina, that doesn't even make sense. Tatsuya defeated her every time they had to fight. And if you're talking about the fight where she had Brioniac, Tatsuya was even more limited than she was, he had the seal maintained by Miyuki still active and just like Lina was trying not to kill Tatsuya he was doing the same thing, all he did was create a few small holes in her body and he didn't use his most lethal magic to kill magicians aka "Trident", and she is pretty damn lucky that her magic's nature makes it annoying that if he decomposes it while activating it will just blow up which isn't some kind of strategy made by Lina or anything, just lucky affinity really, like Katsuto's barriers vs Tatsuya.
No this is not mere luck. Magic comes from genetics so she is that strong mostly because of his genetics but if you don't train your genetics won't help you much,if she is lucky to have a magic countering Decomposition then Tatsuya is lucky to have Decomposition ES and OP and almost unique counter magics , he has so powerful magics only because he is born Yotsuba but without training he would not be among the strongest magicians. The limiter only limits his psion count so that he won't be able to use MB.

In the fight he had no openings and had to resort to distract Lina to hurt her, a Lina who was holding back to not kill him. A serious Lina would have fried and killed him. Lina with her Brionac is stronger than Tatsuya. Only Maya can beat her and that's because she is not "lucky" enough to have Gram Dispersion like Tatsuya.

Katsuto has Phalanx but it doesn't mean that Tatsuya would have too much trouble against every Juumonji on the planet, it's all about the portrayal. Katsuto is probably the only Juumonji able to stand on equal ground with Tatsuya. If he had to struggle a lot to fight every Juumonji Tatsuya would not be one of the strongest magicians on the planet.
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Old Yesterday, 10:23   Link #2314
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No this is not mere luck. Magic comes from genetics so she is that strong mostly because of his genetics but if you don't train your genetics won't help you much,if she is lucky to have a magic countering Decomposition then Tatsuya is lucky to have Decomposition ES and OP and almost unique counter magics , he has so powerful magics only because he is born Yotsuba but without training he would not be among the strongest magicians
What I'm talking about has nothing to do with genetics, practically every time Tatsuya uses Gram Dipsersion on a spell he doesn't have to worry about it exploding or anything, Lina here was lucky that her weapon had that property that specifically made it harder for Tatsuya to deal with, this is a property that is completely useless against any other magician because no one is gonna try and decompose her magic, it's only useful when facing Tatsuya and she didn't plan for it either, it's like how Tomitsuka's magic is the direct enemy of Tatsuya, it's not like he has a lot of spells and he himself made the conscious decision that "this is the best spell to face tatsuya', he was lucky that the single ability he has is very annoying to Tatuya's innate talent.

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The limiter only limits his psion count so that he won't be able to use MB.
I don't know how many times I have to say this. The seal's main purpose is not to restrict Tatsuya's psion count, I'm not sure it even seals his psion to begin with, just because we saw a torrent of psion come out of him and go back doesn't mean anything of the sort. What we can be certain of is that it lowers Tatsuya's proficiency with his innate magic, I don't know the exact detail of whether it's the speed, strength, scale, difficulty or something else but that's the reason the seal is in place simply because if we assume that when the seal is active Tatsuya only has access to 50% of his psion, we've already seen that even under the seal he has never been in shortage of psion even when he faced Masaki and kept spamming Gram Demolition which is the most psion consuming spell we know of, so why would Maya go through all the trouble of limiting Tatsuya to 50% of his psion count when it literally has no effect on his combat strength.
And where did you get the idea that MB requires so much psion that he needs the seal to be lifted for that ? I agree that MB is probably only usable when he isn't sealed but the reason for that is most definitely not because of psion count, but because something about Tatsuya's proficiency with decomposition is sealed, we've already been told several times than modern magic does not require that much psion not like in the past and Material Burst is just like any other magic of this system, it's just at a much higher level of difficulty than Mist Dispersion, why would it even need that much psion ? The reason for Gram Demolition's massive consumption is simply because it's a shot made out of pure psion so you need quite the amount to create one. Something else Miyuki said in vol13 spoilers is that she can seal Tatsuya's "eyes" which probably refers to his Elemental Sight, this goes to confirm that the seal on Tatsuya is more directed toward his specific abilities rather than his psion count.

Quote:
In the fight he had no openings and had to resort to distract Lina to hurt her, a Lina who was holding back to not kill him. A serious Lina would have fried and killed him. Lina with her Brionac is stronger than Tatsuya. Only Maya can beat her and that's because she is not "lucky" enough to have Gram Dispersion like Tatsuya.
Lina got to choose the location and attacked Tatsuya FIRST and by surprise. And the most important element of all this is that Lina wasn't trying to kill Tatsuya but didn't care if she crippled him or anything on the other hand ALL Tatsuya was trying to do was knock her out, He didn't want to kill yet another strategic-class magician which will completely change the balance of power in the world, he did not resort to using his triple decomposition magic "Trident" AND he was being limited by Miyuki's seal, it's pretty obvious who was more restricted in the fight and still won.

Quote:
Katsuto has Phalanx but it doesn't mean that Tatsuya would have too much trouble against every Juumonji on the planet, it's all about the portrayal. Katsuto is probably the only Juumonji able to stand on equal ground with Tatsuya. If he had to struggle a lot to fight every Juumonji Tatsuya would not be one of the strongest magicians on the planet.
I'm not denying that but it doesn't change the fact that the only reason Katsuto would be such a hard fight is because of his affinity against Tatsuya. Practically every fight Tatsuya ever had since volume one where he had trouble is when he is either restricted or if he gets trolled by the bad matchup.
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Old Yesterday, 11:20   Link #2315
Echizen777
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What I'm talking about has nothing to do with genetics, practically every time Tatsuya uses Gram Dipsersion on a spell he doesn't have to worry about it exploding or anything, Lina here was lucky that her weapon had that property that specifically made it harder for Tatsuya to deal with, this is a property that is completely useless against any other magician because no one is gonna try and decompose her magic, it's only useful when facing Tatsuya and she didn't plan for it either, it's like how Tomitsuka's magic is the direct enemy of Tatsuya, it's not like he has a lot of spells and he himself made the conscious decision that "this is the best spell to face tatsuya', he was lucky that the single ability he has is very annoying to Tatuya's innate talent.
Well, Tomitsuka is not only able to counter Tatsuya's magics but pretty much everything. Tatsuya had some difficulties but we all knew he would win at the end, besides Tomitsuka has no real magic which could permit him to beat Tatsuya, Tatsuya bests him in martial arts. I disagree when you say he doesn't have to worry when he uses Gram Dispersion though, it depends of the power of the magician, in volume 9 he was ready to feel atrocious pain after decomposing Niflheim and Muspelheim, it's Miyuki who protected him of the aftereffects.


Quote:
I don't know how many times I have to say this. The seal's main purpose is not to restrict Tatsuya's psion count, I'm not sure it even seals his psion to begin with, just because we saw a torrent of psion come out of him and go back doesn't mean anything of the sort. What we can be certain of is that it lowers Tatsuya's proficiency with his innate magic, I don't know the exact detail of whether it's the speed, strength, scale, difficulty or something else but that's the reason the seal is in place simply because if we assume that when the seal is active Tatsuya only has access to 50% of his psion, we've already seen that even under the seal he has never been in shortage of psion even when he faced Masaki and kept spamming Gram Demolition which is the most psion consuming spell we know of, so why would Maya go through all the trouble of limiting Tatsuya to 50% of his psion count when it literally has no effect on his combat strength.
And where did you get the idea that MB requires so much psion that he needs the seal to be lifted for that ? I agree that MB is probably only usable when he isn't sealed but the reason for that is most definitely not because of psion count, but because something about Tatsuya's proficiency with decomposition is sealed, we've already been told several times than modern magic does not require that much psion not like in the past and Material Burst is just like any other magic of this system, it's just at a much higher level of difficulty than Mist Dispersion, why would it even need that much psion ? The reason for Gram Demolition's massive consumption is simply because it's a shot made out of pure psion so you need quite the amount to create one. Something else Miyuki said in vol13 spoilers is that she can seal Tatsuya's "eyes" which probably refers to his Elemental Sight, this goes to confirm that the seal on Tatsuya is more directed toward his specific abilities rather than his psion count.
Oh, you are right about MB, after all a lot of magicians can use SC magic and their psion count can't compare to his. The psion count should not be the problem but it doesn't change that he is not so limited. Take Miyuki for example, it's not literally 50% of her MP which is suppressed, if with her actual skills she was that strong with the limiter, she would be invincible without it. She can't use Cocytus and it limits her control otherwise Lina would not be a match for her. Even with the limiter Tatsuya's psion count is bigger than anyone else, only Tatsurou compare. Decomposition is complete even with the limiter, Regrowth is near instant even with the limiter, he can snipe 36 targets even with the limiter and is able to use ES at full power if he wants. I guess he is unable to control Material Burst if Miyuki doesn't freed him but that's all I can think of. One thing is sure, it certainly doesn't make his skills at systematic magic better.

Miyuki is more limited because she can't use her strongest magic in a fight, if her opponent is not a match for her it's not really a problem and she uses a lot of systematic magic while Material Burst is useless in a fight, to be able to snipe 24 moving targets in 1VS1 is more than enough.

Quote:
Lina got to choose the location and attacked Tatsuya FIRST and by surprise. And the most important element of all this is that Lina wasn't trying to kill Tatsuya but did,n't care if she crippled him or anything on the other hand ALL Tatsuya was trying to do was knock her out, He didn't want to kill yet another strategic-class magician which will completely change the balance of power in the world, he did not resort to using his triple decomposition magic "Trident" AND he was being limited by Miyuki's seal, it's pretty obvious who was more restricted in the fight and still won.
The one who suffered from the surprise attack was Naotsugu. Tatsuya still decided to fight, Lina cared about him otherwise she would have went all out, she also asked him to surrender, it was a fair fight. She also reduced the power of Brionac to not hurt him too much after destroying his arm and lost a lot of time by doing so, this is one of the major reason Tatsuya won. Tatsuya however could cripple her how he wanted because he knew he could restore her after this, Lina was not aware of Regrowth. If Lina had been serious he would have died.

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I'm not denying that but it doesn't change the fact that the only reason Katsuto would be such a hard fight is because of his affinity against Tatsuya. Practically every fight Tatsuya ever had since volume one where he had trouble is when he is either restricted or if he gets trolled by the bad matchup.
Yes Katsuto's biggest advantage is his Phalanx but Tatsuya has also OP counter magics and Decomposition Regrowth because he is a Yotsuba. It's all because of their genetics.
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Old Yesterday, 12:02   Link #2316
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Well, Tomitsuka is not only able to counter Tatsuya's magics but pretty much everything. Tatsuya had some difficulties but we all knew he would win at the end, besides Tomitsuka has no real magic which could permit him to beat Tatsuya, Tatsuya bests him in martial arts. I disagree when you say he doesn't have to worry when he uses Gram Dispersion though, it depends of the power of the magician, in volume 9 he was ready to feel atrocious pain after decomposing Niflheim and Muspelheim, it's Miyuki who protected him of the aftereffects.
I wasn't arguing that Tomitsuki would win against Tatsuya, of course he would still get beaten but because of his unusual ability which is a direct enemy to Tatsuya he would be able to hold his own for much longer than he should be. My point is that it's not that he is good enough to do that, it's just that his ability is annoying to Tatsuya's power.


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Take Miyuki for example, it's not literally 50% of her MP which is suppressed, if with her actual skills she was that strong with the limiter, she would be invincible without it. She can't use Cocytus and it limits her control otherwise Lina would not be a match for her.
Miyuki maintaining the seal limits her control, once the seal is removed she does gain access to Cocytus but that's not all, the reason she can't use cocytus while sealed is because it's such a high level spell that she needs all of it to use it and if she can use Cocytus when the seal is removed it also means that using the rest of her magics also get easier to do and that was shown in her fight with Lina.

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Even with the limiter Tatsuya's psion count is bigger than anyone else, only Tatsurou compare. Decomposition is complete even with the limiter, Regrowth is near instant even with the limiter, he can snipe 36 targets even with the limiter and is able to use ES at full power if he wants. I guess he is unable to control Material Burst if Miyuki doesn't freed him but that's all I can think of.
Mahouka is not like some RPG where you can open a menu and choose to "disable" one specific magic without impacting the rest of the abilities, Tatsuya's most powerful magic is Material Burst, if you want to seal it the only way to do so is to lower his proficieny or control over his innate magic so that it's not high enough to use and by doing so you're effectively making it more difficult for him to use the rest of his magics. Decomposition and Regrowth seem amazing even with the limiter in place but did we really ever get to see what Tatsuya can do when the seal is not removed and he is fighting someone who isn't a fodder ? We have no idea what he can do, in the Yokahoma arc we was mostly supporting his comrades and in the reminiscence arc he wasn't as powerful as he is now, the only thing we've seen him do against a powerful magician while the seal is disabled is simultaneously negate the magic of Miyuki and Lina.

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One thing is sure, it certainly doesn't make his skills at systematic magic better.
I can't talk about other systematic magics but as far as his innate abilities are concerned, I'm certain that they're being restricted.

Like I said before, for example if Miyuki wasn't sealing Tatsuya's magic and someone wanted to make her unable to use Cocytus, they would seal half of her control over magic, you can't pick one spell and seal it directly and leave everything else untouched, the only way to seal a magic is to lower something that the person possesses which allows him to use it.

Quote:
The one who suffered from the surprise attack was Naotsugu. Tatsuya still decided to fight, Lina cared about him otherwise she would have went all out, she also asked him to surrender, it was a fair fight. She also reduced the power of Brionac to not hurt him too much after destroying his arm and lost a lot of time by doing so, this is one of the major reason Tatsuya won. Tatsuya however could cripple her how he wanted because he knew he could restore her after this, Lina was not aware of Regrowth. If Lina had been serious he would have died.
Tatsuya was caught off guard when his arm was torn off. Tatsuya couldn't go all out either, again Trident is a spell that completely kills someone and he couldn't use it on Lina, not only that he wasn't trying to cripple her, he was aiming at specific points in her body that would make her feel enormous pain so that she would lose consciousness, how difficult do you think it is for Tatsuya whose magic is meant for murder to adjust its power and target small areas on his target. The truth of the matter is this, the only thing Lina had was Brioniac and if it she could hit Tatsuya with it he might not even die, on the other hand Tatsuya's Trident is a spell that will just break through your magical defenses and turn you into dust and she has no way of blocking it.

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Yes Katsuto's biggest advantage is his Phalanx but Tatsuya has also OP counter magics and Decomposition Regrowth because he is a Yotsuba. It's all because of their genetics.
Both were naturally blessed with amazing abilities but Katsuto's magic has the advantage of affinity over Tatsuya. It's like if in some fantasy story you have two exceptional magicians, one who is good at fire magic and one who is good at water magic and if they fought it would turn into a stalemate, it' obviously the fire magician who's better since even with the disadvantage of affinity he can do this.
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Old Yesterday, 12:07   Link #2317
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Guys, shouldn't this be in another thread?
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Old Yesterday, 12:43   Link #2318
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Just hit report and ask for them to be moved.
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