The Character Discussion Thread of SOS団 Member: Yuki Nagato

[Tabasco]

Maybe. Then again, depending on how paranoid you are, she might've been under orders then too.

[AmyElizzabeth]

But Yuki said that "They are flaws in your program."

[freakonboard]

Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth

But Yuki said that "They are flaws in your program."

That's from official dub, right?
Here are translations of the same quote from Baka-Tsuki, a.f.k/Hitsuji and official sub, respectively.

"Your programs are too basic."

"Your individual programs were too weak."

"Each and every program has a fault."

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by freakonboard

That's from official dub, right?
Here are translations of the same quote from Baka-Tsuki, a.f.k/Hitsuji and official sub, respectively.

"Your programs are too basic."

"Your individual programs were too weak."

"Each and every program has a fault."

Good example of how translation style and choosing the way a character will speak is as important as the content.

[AmyElizzabeth]

Ah! I never even thought of looking at the novels....as they were the original :O

[Tabasco]

Either way, food for thought.

Spoiler for Or not:

Given her actions later on in Disappearance, I think it can be discounted though.

[AmyElizzabeth]

I can't believe she knew it was going to happen, but didn't try to stop it from happening

[Apache Thunder]

I think the DITE, Yuki, and Ryoko all exit outside of time. Therefor the DITE and company can only know the future of the normal humans and creatures and the like.

I don't think they can know ahead of time what actions a data entity like Ryoko might take because she is outside of time and any action she would take would alter the time plane her interface resides on the instant she took said action.

So I believe Yuki/DITE did not know Ryoko was going to attack Kyon because her existance out side of time prevents them from predicting her actions on the normal time plane.

Think of it like this. Person A (kyon) lives on Plane A, Person B, C, and D (Yuki, Ryoko, and DITE) exist on Plane B. Anything that happens on Plane A can be known ahead of time by Persons B, C and D. but not by persons on Plane A. The same holds true on the other end of things. Persons B, C, and D can't predict each others actions in they're own plane. (Plane B). So her "decision" to attack kyon was made on Plane B, and carried out on Plane A. Since the origin of her "decision" occurred on Plane B, DITE could not have known untill she then tried to carry it out on Plane A. It was the instant that she lounged at Kyon was when DITE and company knew the situation. Before then they did not know.

.....That probably didn't make it any less confusing.

[freakonboard]

Originally Posted by GMT

Haruhi seeks out weird things. The DITE would likely have known this. Ryoko Asakura (unnaturally blue hair not withstanding) is (outwardly) pretty much the definition of "normal high school girl." Ryoko Asakura's purpose, then, is simply to keep an eye on Haruhi during 'normal' situations; while leaving Yuki to do the dangerous work.

I think "perfect high school girl" should be more appropriate term.

[GMT]

Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth

But Yuki said that "They are flaws in your program."

Nagato and Asakura's fight could well have been staged for Kyon's benefit to ensure that Kyon would develop a rapport with Yuki. After all, the wounds Nagato suffered didn't do more than inconvenience her. And Asakura was killed in such a way that, conveniently, left no body.

Of course, Haruhi threw a wrench into the works by filling Yuki's memory with a sanity-stretching 500 years of junk data, which probably contributed heavily to

Spoiler:

Disappearance: Where Yuki went on a rampage and remade the universe. Sort of like how the Spirit rover on Mars went crazy and stopped responding to ground commands for a while, a few weeks after it had landed on the planet. The reason? The rover's memory was too full with gathered science data, and program data from the year it spent in space cruising to Mars. I'm not saying that Yuki's memory management is as bad as Spirit's was, but it is plausible. Now wasn't this a refreshingly pointless tangent?

[Tabasco]

Originally Posted by GMT

Of course, Haruhi threw a wrench into the works by filling Yuki's memory with a sanity-stretching 500 years of junk data, which probably contributed heavily to

Spoiler:

Disappearance: Where Yuki went on a rampage and remade the universe. Sort of like how the Spirit rover on Mars went crazy and stopped responding to ground commands for a while, a few weeks after it had landed on the planet. The reason? The rover's memory was too full with gathered science data, and program data from the year it spent in space cruising to Mars. I'm not saying that Yuki's memory management is as bad as Spirit's was, but it is plausible. Now wasn't this a refreshingly pointless tangent?

Definitely a thought. That experience would be orders of magnitude more than enough to destroy anyone's sanity, its no coincidence that she took action not long afterwards.

And I like tangents, they are but the circumferences of even larger circles.

[AmyElizzabeth]

I don't think Yuki did that because of Haruhi, but for Kyon and his comstant wish for a damn normal life (he coulden't even last 2 days without any of the Brigade)

[Tensei]

I have a theory on how synchronization works, let's see how this applies.

Let's say that Yuki exist in some other dimension, with the IDSE, but is connected to her interface on Earth through some kind of trans dimensional link. However, Apache Thunder just put up a challenge for synchronization. That is, that they cannot see the future in the dimension that they exist on. Id this were to be true, then synchronization would seem impossible to anyone. However, what IF the links were to work like an internet dial up connection. For example, the interface is the computer, the dimesion where the interface's thoughts exist as well as the IDSE, is where you are dialing, and then from there it connects to the future version of the interface, and then transmit back the information to the interface.

this is my theory of how synchronization would work, but then we have to wonder. Wouldn't Asakura, then have know about what was going to happen? Well, i can think of only a few reasons to explain this.

1) she knew, but thought it was necessary for something to happen
2) she did not know b/c she couldn't use synchronization
3) she used synchronization, knew it was going to happen, but tryed to do it in some different way, but then this would only start a series of different time lines to pop up b/c every time she used synchronization, she knew she had to do something different.

now, you might be wondering why i just wrote this whole messed up theory, or not. i did it, because i had to get it out of my mind, so excuse me if this whole thing wasted your time.

[Ithekro]

Remember, time travel to the aliens means that the data arrives intact...not how it is moved. This could mean that the Yuki in the past, after synchronizaton, was the Yuki from three years in the future. This also means that it is possible that she's know all this the whole time. However it is also possible that the interfaces are set to return to default mode (or more accurately, last save point mode) after such incidents to reduce the problem of "noise" in time.

It also may be an emergency proceedure and only done when needed, thus other interfaces like Ryoko would not have used this ability because it was not an emergency. Yuki is more or less told her mission statement from some weird human and what she probably can tell is a time traveller, shortly after Yuki is "activated". Since this shouldn't be possible, and the human suggests the time traveller has taken him back in time (and he invoked the name of Haruhi), Yuki synchronizes to achieve clarity and maintain the mission objective (observe Haruhi...do not allow odd events to corrupt the observation of Haruhi). The removal of Kyon and Mikuru would upset the observation target, thus they must be put back into their proper place in time. THe Time Traveller's "noise" makes things difficult, but this is Yuki...she seems to be able to do just about anything...as long as it doesn't come into conflict with Haruhi/observation mission goals........for now.

[AmyElizzabeth]

Those were some really good theories.
I have nothing to top those off

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Tabasco

And I like tangents, they are but the circumferences of even infinitely larger circles.

Corrected (somewhat), since by definition a tangent is a straight line.

Ryoko either never synched past the point of her battle with Yuki, or she did and decided to have the fight anyway for whatever reason (knows something we don't?). I get the feeling that she did synch, quite often, and that is why she was so much more human. As Ithekro suggested, that could make her consciousness effectively a lot older, enabling her to quickly get past the emotionally stunted "new" stage Yuki still finds herself in.

In answer to whether Yuki was the first choice for being "Haruhi's interface", I think the fact that she was created (Earth time) right after Haruhi's awakening would suggest not only that she was their choice, but that she was created with the express purpose of being their choice.

[Khu]

A tangent is a straight line touching at only one point of the cirumference of a circle perpendicular to the radius of said circle.

[Tabasco]

Originally Posted by quigonkenny

Corrected (somewhat), since by definition a tangent is a straight line.

In answer to whether Yuki was the first choice for being "Haruhi's interface", I think the fact that she was created (Earth time) right after Haruhi's awakening would suggest not only that she was their choice, but that she was created with the express purpose of being their choice.

That could make sense. One of the chief requirements of a good experimental apparatus is consistency, which she has in spades. That and minimal reactivity with the observational subject, which again she has.

If you think of it in chemistry terms, Ryoko is the reactant dumped in the beaker, and Yuki is the sensor recording the results.

[Stormwhite]

Originally Posted by AmyElizzabeth

I don't think Yuki did that because of Haruhi, but for Kyon and his comstant wish for a damn normal life (he coulden't even last 2 days without any of the Brigade)

Personally, I think it is either of these two options.

Spoiler for Novel 4 & 9:

1. She did it because she is in love with Kyon, thus she set up a universe without the SOS Brigade (Which he outwardly complains about all the time) and herself, who Kyon has repeatedly stated to be who he considers the most reliable of the SOS Brigade.

2. She did it because she knows about the upcoming choice for Kyon, and needs him to realize that he DOES want the SOS Brigade to still be around, running after Haruhi. If she hadn't done this, would he have refused the "Anti-SOS Brigade"?

The third option that I consider possible, is that it wasn't Yuki and it was the Sky Canopy Dominion.

I honestly don't think Yuki will turn against Kyon.
Of course I could be wrong. It happens a lot.

And couldn't Yuki's lack of emotion and outward personality be that she was the first they made? Asakura was so to speak, an 'upgrade', but was left as a subordinate due to emotions reducing efficiency and reliability?

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by Stormwhite

Spoiler for Novel 4 & 9:

1. She did it because she is in love with Kyon, thus she set up a universe without the SOS Brigade (Which he outwardly complains about all the time) and herself, who Kyon has repeatedly stated to be who he considers the most reliable of the SOS Brigade.

2. She did it because she knows about the upcoming choice for Kyon, and needs him to realize that he DOES want the SOS Brigade to still be around, running after Haruhi. If she hadn't done this, would he have refused the "Anti-SOS Brigade"?

The third option that I consider possible, is that it wasn't Yuki and it was the Sky Canopy Dominion.

I honestly don't think Yuki will turn against Kyon.
Of course I could be wrong. It happens a lot.

Spoiler for Volume 4:

#1 is what I've always assumed. We've always called it the Yukiverse, but I imagine internally Yuki called it the "Kyon Bootycallverse".

#2 I had never thought of, but it would be interesting should it happen that that was in her thinking. It would be a retcon, I believe, because at that point I don't think the Canopy Domain, and thus Yuki's impetus for doing what you suggest, existed in any real form, even to the author.

But your suggestion of the third option makes me think you haven't read the book closely enough. There's no doubt at all that Yuki did it. She freely admits it more than once.