In the end, is it all about trying to be rich?

[Zu Ra]

Cynical as it may sound afterall we live in a world which is driven by materialism . Or how could you explain why Bill Gates gets so much coverage than Nobel Peace Prize winners . If we did live in an Utopian world I would have spent all my time trying to be a better human being then driven by money .

[WanderingKnight]

No, I won't. I have already bought a lot of things that make me happy, such as this computer here, and they still keep doing their job pretty well. Although a bigger monitor would make me even more happy. Nothing like watching your favorite flicks from a big 44" monitor.

Wait a year or so, don't change your well-running computer anymore, and you'll see the market will be overflowing with computers that are two or three times better performing as yours for handling stuff that keeps getting edgier everyday (games are a good example, how far can good graphics go? Must they always keep going forward? If it looks so well, why bother improving it?) and you'll certainly not be that happy anymore. Sure, having a PC is convenient and might bring you some degree of happiness, but as the article posted before mentions, once you reach a high state, you'll only discover higher states above you.

The base of money is competence. Humans needed some way to prove, "objectively", that what they're producing is better than what other people are producing. Thus, currency was invented. And since money is the base of capitalism, competence is the base of capitalism and of the societies that have adopted it as an economical and political system. We're all essentially competing against every human being surrounding us, trying, at the very bottom of our behavior, to be better than the other person we see in front of us. And, as soon as we reach a state in which we can see ourselves better than the people who used to be at our same level, we'll discover a new universe of people who is much "better" or more competitive than ourselves, and then we'll need to strive to achieve a higher degree of competence. All this 'competence' gets translated into real life as consume. We live in a society of consume, where the market virtually forces you to consume to stay into the loop. So, the 'higher' the style of life you carry on, the more other 'higher' styles of life will become apparent to you, and the market will thus virtually force you to pursue those higher styles of life eternally.

[Ending]

To me it sounds pretty obvious that everyone will be trying to improve in one way or another. Money is one tool in it, so why place a special emphasize on it?

and you'll certainly not be that happy anymore.

Don't presume too much. As long as this thing keeps doing what I want it to do, there is nothing to complain. And as to new hardware, I hardly want to buy something like that just so I could play new, crappy games with better graphics or watch bad Hollywood movies.

[WanderingKnight]

To me it sounds pretty obvious that everyone will be trying to improve in one way or another. Money is one tool in it, so why place a special emphasize on it?

Money is the representation of power in the current society. Across ages, power has had many different representations, and in a capitalist society (CAPITALISM = CAPITAL = MONEY, duh), money IS power. And, as a constant, what I've been trying to say is the more power you have, the more power you're bound to seek.

And as all sociological analysis of societies and human beings, many single examples will fail to prove the general rule, but the point about sociology is that the behavior of society tends towards a common goal. Of course, you might find a crazy old hermit that can isolate himself from the society, but the general attitude of the rest of the people may be altogether different.

I agree, everyone is different and has different attitudes towards things, but that doesn't mean a whole society tends to act randomly. If it did, then whole social sciences (such as sociology) would be completely futile. Putting yourself as an example to contradict a common rule is like finding an angry Japanese and concluding that all Japanese are angry people.

[slayer]

You will not learn how important money is until you have none.

[no common sense]

The base of money is scarcity. Humans needed some way to prove, "objectively", that what they're producing is worth exchanging with what other people are producing. Thus, currency was invented. And since money is the base of economics, scarcity is the base of economics for all societies irregardless of their economical and political system. We're all essentially working against the scarcity surrounding us, trying, at the very bottom of our behavior, to have and create better goods and services that what we see in front of us. And, as soon as we reach a state in which we can see ourselves better than how we used to be, we'll discover a new universe of resources that is much "better" or more competitive than our current position, and then we'll need to strive to achieve a higher degree of productivity. All this '[B]productivity' gets translated into real life as higher standards of living. We live in a society of freedom, where you can freely buy and sell goods and services. So, the 'more productive' the style of life you carry on, the more other 'even more productive' styles of life will become apparent to you, and human ambition will thus virtually force you to pursue those higher standards of living eternally which is what all the evil capitalists who tyrannically impose their lifestyle on others call PROGRESS.

fixed

I’m quite happy to run after Moore’s law when I could very well have been herding sheep as a middle aged 20 year old.

Wealth and power are not equivalent but can be exchanged. Bill Clinton, political prodigy, started with little and used his skill to gain immense power and remains very influential without even holding a formal office. With that power he has been able to gain considerable wealth now by earning millions on the lecture circuit. He still won’t be as rich as Bill Gates but Bill Gates will never be as powerful as Clinton. A quick glance through history shows that the amount of wealth available to individuals has increased far more than power (although guns did help with the latter). The modern American family living at the median income level is far wealthier and enjoys a much higher standard of living than the kings in Europe 1000 years ago did. Wealth is but only one means to power the other (more popular) method is violence. One popular way of defining a government is as an entity with the monopoly on violence (part of the reason why Colombia and Lebanon are having troubles is because they have competition) (also why the Founders intended America to have a large militia and a small standing army is to ensure power/guns/violence was in the hands of the people since the people are the foundation of our government)

the behavior of society tends towards a common goal of having unlimited free porn for the masses which was achieved in the 21st century through the internet, utopia is NOW.

Also fixed

[Slade xTekno]

I think it's more about "getting enough money to live comfortably" rather than "getting rich." For some people, the former may be the latter.

Originally Posted by slayer

You will not learn how important money is until you have none.

No truer words spoken.

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

Wait a year or so, don't change your well-running computer anymore, and you'll see the market will be overflowing with computers that are two or three times better performing as yours for handling stuff that keeps getting edgier everyday (games are a good example, how far can good graphics go? Must they always keep going forward? If it looks so well, why bother improving it?) and you'll certainly not be that happy anymore. Sure, having a PC is convenient and might bring you some degree of happiness, but as the article posted before mentions, once you reach a high state, you'll only discover higher states above you.

Buy a Mac.

[WanderingKnight]

Originally Posted by no common sense

The base of money is scarcity. Humans needed some way to prove, "objectively", that what they're producing is worth exchanging with what other people are producing. Thus, currency was invented. And since money is the base of economics, scarcity is the base of economics for all societies irregardless of their economical and political system. We're all essentially working against the scarcity surrounding us, trying, at the very bottom of our behavior, to have and create better goods and services that what we see in front of us. And, as soon as we reach a state in which we can see ourselves better than how we used to be, we'll discover a new universe of resources that is much "better" or more competitive than our current position, and then we'll need to strive to achieve a higher degree of productivity. All this '[B]productivity' gets translated into real life as higher standards of living. We live in a society of freedom, where you can freely buy and sell goods and services. So, the 'more productive' the style of life you carry on, the more other 'even more productive' styles of life will become apparent to you, and human ambition will thus virtually force you to pursue those higher standards of living eternally which is what all the evil capitalists who tyrannically impose their lifestyle on others call PROGRESS.

fixed

I’m quite happy to run after Moore’s law when I could very well have been herding sheep as a middle aged 20 year old.

Wealth and power are not equivalent but can be exchanged. Bill Clinton, political prodigy, started with little and used his skill to gain immense power and remains very influential without even holding a formal office. With that power he has been able to gain considerable wealth now by earning millions on the lecture circuit. He still won’t be as rich as Bill Gates but Bill Gates will never be as powerful as Clinton. A quick glance through history shows that the amount of wealth available to individuals has increased far more than power (although guns did help with the latter). The modern American family living at the median income level is far wealthier and enjoys a much higher standard of living than the kings in Europe 1000 years ago did. Wealth is but only one means to power the other (more popular) method is violence. One popular way of defining a government is as an entity with the monopoly on violence (part of the reason why Colombia and Lebanon are having troubles is because they have competition) (also why the Founders intended America to have a large militia and a small standing army is to ensure power/guns/violence was in the hands of the people since the people are the foundation of our government)

the behavior of society tends towards a common goal of having unlimited free porn for the masses which was achieved in the 21st century through the internet, utopia is NOW.

Also fixed

That's just taking an economical scope of the issue. I'm taking a sociological one. They will certainly not converge, since they're parting from different axioms.

Oh, and the existence of the "freedom" you speak about, from a philosophical standpoint, could be argued. Most philosophers think the true freedom of choice is nothing more than a lot of BS, since our attitude is conditioned by the environment we grow up in and the experiences we receive.

Buy a Mac.

I'm missing the point here.

[hobobaggins]

omg fanboyism!

the solution to dealing with obsolete equipment isnt to buy from a differnet manufacturuer. It will still be equally outdated.

in then end, its up to you.

[anselfir]

absolutely not, money is a hassle.

[Ending]

the more power you have, the more power you're bound to seek.

Presuming that it is power that makes me happy. Power can also be divided into different sub-categories, such as social power and physical power. Monetary power is just one aspect of it.

[animefanrk2k]

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

Buy a Mac.

Originally Posted by WanderingKnight

I'm missing the point here.

Just a quick note before I actually say something that may or may not sound intelligent and logical, but I believe that references how hard it is to upgrade hardware on the Macs.

Anyway...

What is money? Money is worthless if it's not spent. Therefore, if you're going to have money, all you need is enough to spend it, whether that spending will happen now or later. (Yes, if you save it to use it for the future, that's spending it too. Just... not now.)

With that said, I find it more of a concern when people without money suddenly have it and let their newfound have a negative impact on them. I mean, yes, money is power, but hell, if one of my close friends were flaunting their wealth in front of me, I'll gladly give them something to mull over on their way to the hospital because that's the type of person I am and that's the standards I try to keep myself at.

Therefore, money is good. Yes, I need money and yes, I use lots of it at times. However, having more than I need is quite unnecessary. If I earn too little, that's a different story. While I am someone who likes to live by ideals, I have to be realistic enough to recognize that life isn't ideal. So yes, I know that sending my friend to the hospital because they were abusing their newfound power is childish of me to do. However, there is a balance that must be achieved, so I'm merely restoring the balance destroyed prior.

I guess I don't like change very much then. >_>

On another note, it's nice to look for a job that can give you ALL of the following: job security, nice paycheck, fun, not too stressful, good hours, good benefits

I'm going to become a school teacher because of the above, but that's just me. The definition of money's worth and a realistic job differ with each person. *shrugs*

[Maritime]

Whichever way you choose to look at it you can't do anything without money, I mean, even the homeless beg for change. I don't think it's essential to be rich, only to have a few notes in your wallet more than you need to spend each month.

[Matt Soulblade]

...Makes me remember some stupid song... "Money isnt everything, but how it helps!..."

Money isnt power. Money = paper = capability, but its just that. Capital = Power.
What I mean its that just having money doesnt mean you really are have influence or a big company, the only way to have that is to make your money works and make it circulate. Inmobile money is just some numbers in a bank, they dont represent nothing, just a little insurance for a person/company, ready to be used in the moment that is already to late for the company to be saved.

[TamaNeko]

Not liquid assets or such, but cold, hard cash that's yours to either save or spend anytime you want. Either in the bank or whatever it is you have in your wallet. And here's another question - how happy are you right now? Just curious to see if having more money means more happiness.

[Ledgem]

Happiness is more based around your personal philosophy, in my opinion, than on what you have. If your philosophy is geared in a certain way, then your money matters; if it's another way, then it's what you have that matters (although what you have could have been attained through money).

I think that the entire happiness as a philosophy aspect is the theme of Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand. One of my lab TA's gave me a copy, and I started reading it recently. I think it may be a little overhyped as a piece of philosophy, but apparently it was the #1 most influental book on the general public's thinking. I guess some people don't ponder the issues it discusses much.

[darkjester]

i won't be truly happy until i am filthy rich... we're talking blow my nose with 100's rich...

willing to work hard for it, but hoping to just strike it rich one day... either way, once u get to the point where u have more money than u can fathom, all u have to do is retire and enjoy it

the money itself won't make me happy, but the things that will come from having money will...

- possessions... anything and everything i can possibly want...
- travel - anywhere i wanna go whenever i want...
- and most importantly... freedom... freedom from finacial worries, from taking orders from somebody, freedom to do most anything i want when i want...
- as for love... that will happen with or w/o money... i have lots lots of ideas on how to find love w/o having to worry if its love or if they just want me for my money...
- family/friends - most my family don't understand me anyway, i still have the love of my mother, and she doesn't care if i'm rich or poor... and friends i have my group of friends already... i trust them with my life, and respect them very much, and they to me... we will be friends regardless of our financial status... plus we all made a pact, whoever becomes filthy rich first would gladly let the others mooch off of us as long as they want... the way i figure it.. if i'm rich, why shoudn't my friends enjoy my money too?

i've already put lots of money in projects that have failed and put me in debt, but i am not giving up, i have another project in the making that is the most promising yet... its something i know i can enjoy doing and has the potential to set me up for life...

Cheer's to MONEY!!!!