2007-10-09, 18:35 | Link #421 |
Sleep beneath the flowers
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lording above all of humanity >;3
Age: 34
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Sorry to revive an old thread but uhm... I was thinking. Do the ships used by the TSAB have any weapons beside the Arc-en-Ciel? It's never been mentioned... I assume they do, since the Arc-en-Ciel wasn't added to the Asura until A's, which means it had no offensive weaponry.
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2007-10-09, 19:18 | Link #423 |
Sleep beneath the flowers
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lording above all of humanity >;3
Age: 34
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Really? Hmmm... Should've watched that RAW then...
... Actually I haven't watched the RAWs in a while and have just been reading about them. Guess I'll see this myself when the subs are all done... Thanks, it was bugging me... *Takes note*
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2007-10-09, 20:18 | Link #424 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Actually, they demonstrated a lower destructive radius. We don't know about comparative precision (as measured by how well the weapon can be aimed). We are not even absolutely sure whether Arc is incapable of a lesser destructive radius than hundreds of km, but merely chose the maximum power to maximize the probability of destroying what they saw as a particularly dangerous device.
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2007-10-09, 20:47 | Link #425 | ||
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Join Date: May 2007
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BTW, I was mistaken about the episode number. The ships don't shoot the Cradle until episode 26.
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2007-10-09, 21:54 | Link #427 | ||
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Join Date: May 2007
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Not a very good angle here but the new weapon appears to be a lot better at delivering energy to its target and only its target.
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2007-10-10, 09:26 | Link #428 |
***y translator
Scanlator
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Concerning the Arc-en-Ciel
アルカンシェル - Arc-en-Ciel (A's DVD6) A magic cannon equipped to the Administration Bureau's larger warships. Boasting the highest destructive power within the Administration Bureau's naval armory, use of the Arc-en-Ciel is only allowed in certain conditions or against certain targets, and only when specific requirements are fulfilled. The projectile has nearly no destructive power itself; instead, a short time after impact, a spatial distortion and a subsequent annihilating reaction is generated. As the area of effect is even greater than the maximum firing range, withdrawing to a safe location after firing by Transferring is an absolute must. It would seem the power of the Arc-en-Ciel isn't scalable, and in fact it sounds like an actual physical projectile is launched, rather than being some beam attack (at least according to the booklet... does it actually look like that? )
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2007-10-10, 11:28 | Link #430 | |
Anime Snark
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Singapore
Age: 41
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[Ergo, the Arc-en-Ciel is not that bad after all.] Cheers.
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2008-01-09, 18:59 | Link #432 |
Sleep beneath the flowers
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Lording above all of humanity >;3
Age: 34
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Ok ok. Sorry to revive this but er... Is there any sort of site that lists all the translated DVD Booklet info? A download won't work as I'm unsure if the college computers allow it... They might, but that would be a last resort.
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2008-01-15, 12:50 | Link #435 | ||||||||
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Join Date: Jul 2007
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As for readiness times, you'll notice that most often, the balls appear. Then there's a pause, THEN they are launched. For example, see A's Ep5. Take SchwalbeFliegen. It takes a full 4 seconds from balls to fire. Take Accel Shooter - takes at least 2-3 seconds, and it was clearly not yet under guidance when launched, and Nanoha is supposed to be extraordinarily good with these weapons. Plasma Lancer took 4 seconds even after they appeared (obviously, Fate's strong suit is not setting up weapons...), and the reorientation after the miss took a whole 4-6 seconds to set. Quote:
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2008-01-15, 14:44 | Link #436 | ||||||||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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But 'if they do get close, just point' doesn't exactly require guns. Quote:
It just occured to me that staff devices may have another function by auto aiming. If the wielder has to focuss aiming down the sight of his device, his concentration is split. By allowing the device to correct the aiming, the user can devide more attention to concentration on the actuall attack, increasing its effciency. |
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2008-01-15, 19:40 | Link #437 |
Once and Current Subber
Join Date: Dec 2005
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It's safe to say that the physical features of the weapon aren't necessarily indicative of its capabilities. RH looks like it does at least partially because that's what Nanoha expected it to look like - kind of like her barrier jacket, which was generated at the same time.
So it's not totally unexpected that RH has an effectively-useless sight-thingy because Nanoha expects a big gun to have one - in other words, even though RH doesn't really need it to aim, it's present as a psychological aid to Nanoha, to give it a "big gun" feel. That said, I don't see the problem really. We don't ever see a beam attack fired off-bore, so it's reasonable to assume that they can't be fired off-bore. We don't ever see one "miss", and aiming-assist is well within the capabilities of the devices, so it's reasonable to assume the devices help with aiming the big beams. Clearly the homing projectiles' limitations aren't just limitations in the device, but also in the user. Vita isn't saying "You can't shoot that many shots!" but "Nobody can control that many shots!" (which was essentially true - Nanoha had to work to get the pin-point accuracy going later.) On the other hand, at this point Nanoha's still just a nine-year-old - sure, she's naturally gifted at it, but experience counts for a lot too. Ten years later, Nanoha is a monster when it comes to homing shots, and clearly she appreciates the tactical flexibility that gives her... enough that Teana wins her victory with the "hit by homing shot you weren't expecting" technique that Nanoha uses. Vice is a special case, because he's the only "sniper" we know about. Additionally, he's just not as much of a mage as most of our other cast members, right? Vice might have to work a lot harder to get his results than, say, Nanoha... |
2008-01-15, 21:54 | Link #438 | ||||||||||||||
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2) And it is not a big gun, or a big cannon. It is a staff! Psychologically, Nanoha should expect RH to auto-aim before she expects a scope, especially since this is the first time we even saw a sight. Quote:
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Compare with, for example, how Teana did it in Ep1 of StrikerS. Note how fast she shifted b/w different targets, despite being a B rank. That's because she was using sights and aiming instead of fooling around with a "Torpedo Setter" trying to load gyro offsets into her weapons. Quote:
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2008-01-16, 00:20 | Link #439 |
Truth Martyr
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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Just my quick two cents on the issue.
I note a firing delay with all homing shots that have been used. I attribute this to a process which appears logical to me, as follows: 1) Mage spots targets and designates the targets. 2) Mage utters spell and generates homing shots. 3) With synchronisation with the mage's mind, the Intelligent Device calculates windage, angle, power, coriolis effect, range, and locks onto the targets designated by the mage's mind. 4) This information is processed and sorted concurrently with the magical processing to generate the spell. 5) Shots are fired. 6) Device controls the locking on and course correction for the shots, or downloads sufficient data into the shots to allow them to retarget (like Plasma Lancer). For other mage-controlled shots, the Mage essentially thinks "Go here" and the Device translates that into shot-speak. This process is actually quite similar to a missile launch. The fighter detects the target on radar, and locks it. The targeting information is sent to the missile. The missile then locks onto the target, and is then launched. As for Keroko's statement that you don't need to aim with a device, it begs asking what Nanoha was doing pointing Raging Heart at Vita when the latter was advancing on her in Episode 1 of A's. Furthermore, the idea that you don't need to aim at close range is quite ridiculous, considering all the red dot sights being used for close quaters battle.
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2008-01-16, 02:25 | Link #440 | |
Blazing General
Join Date: May 2006
Location: CA
Age: 37
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I agree with your basic point that ergonomics are good and Nanoha devices were designed for cool (for some values of cool, anyway), not ergonomics, and could therefore stand some improvement. But I'm not sure the proper ergonomics on an aerial mage's weapon should look like a modern weapon's. I don't think it should come as any surprise that the gun-like device-user of the main characters, Teana, has devices based off pistols- they have a much wider range of motion shouldered rifle and only occupy one hand, something important when you're fairly likely to encounter targets that can move quickly in 3D at close range and you can attack and defend with either hand, and sometimes both independently. And like I said, at long range I think they're dependent enough on computer assistance (through homing shots and hopefully some of the measures I described in my first paragraph for beams) that ergonomics designed for close-range encounters will cause a proportionally small performance drop.
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