Sword Art Online II - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by zero7090

Did they just freaking cut the fan service part? SAO without gary stub hitting on girl??????

You didn't notice the excessive Kirito shoulder patting (which isn't really hitting on the girl, but is more touchy-feely than usual) and also... this?

NSFW

My fans are running properly.

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[R.LocK]

With Kirito's short bullet-deflecting scene this episode rubbing me off the wrong way, I want a Jedi vs Sith fight. Actually, Death Gun's design always reminds me of Darth Veider, heh.

...Also, I need to watch the episode in HD because I actually missed the glory of Sinon's butt. I can't believe it! Damn SD, damn.

[Phantom]

Waaaaaaaait. I just realized something. Can there be two Death Guns? One to play on the GGO and the other watching the game as to tell the first one what's going on outside the screen for GGO? Seems plausible to me.

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

So what you are trying to say is that shooting someone with a pistol that only partially took their energy down (not all the way), which forcibly caused them to have a heart attack (not intended by the game) and log out is not cheating?

You're assuming that his gun is what's causing all this. It's already been stated that it's impossible to kill someone from the game because the Amusphere doesn't have that capability. The only way to do this would be to alter the wearer's Amusphere to be capable of killing them. After that, they'd have to alter the server's themselves so that it would send a "Kill signal" to the Amusphere upon being shot by his gun.

I'm going to say there's a lot more that's going on here that we just don't know about.

[Snuffle]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

I know, it would be normal to cause shock if it's the first time she saw it since then, but my question is, hasn't any OTHER player used it in-game, assuming it is available at the market?

I'm guessing it's one of those cash shop skins that can change the appearance of your weapon or character (keeping the original stats), those kinda things are pretty popular these days with free mmo. With that said, I'm thinking that Sinon doesn't pay attention to the cash shop items too much, which is why she was surprised to see such that thing in the game.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Metaneo

You're assuming that his gun is what's causing all this. It's already been stated that it's impossible to kill someone from the game because the Amusphere doesn't have that capability. The only way to do this would be to alter the wearer's Amusphere to be capable of killing them. After that, they'd have to alter the server's themselves so that it would send a "Kill signal" to the Amusphere upon being shot by his gun.

I'm going to say there's a lot more that's going on here that we just don't know about.

However, it is definitive that Death Gun shooting someone with said pistol somehow causes them to have a heart attack. The methods and mechanics are not understood yet, but the correlation is there. Either way, it is cheating to remove an opponent, regardless of method, that is not intended by the game.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Either way, it is cheating to remove an opponent, regardless of method, that is not intended by the game.

And to think that this was written before swatting became a thing. But yeah, I'd say that actually taking your opponent out IRL would count as cheating the game.

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

However, it is definitive that Death Gun shooting someone with said pistol somehow causes them to have a heart attack. The methods and mechanics are not understood yet, but the correlation is there. Either way, it is cheating to remove an opponent, regardless of method, that is not intended by the game.

I dont see how it's "definitive." Correlation does not mean causation. The technological capability just isn't there for the Amusphere to be able to kill someone. This was stated in the ALO arc and in the first episode when Kirito was meeting with the detective.

Also there is also something wrong with the very first death that happened. Zexceed was never shot. Death Gun shot at the screen in the bar. The bullet never touched Zexceed, yet he still died. So the bullet has nothing to do with the deaths, it's purely symbolic, and it would point towards Death Gun being a fan of grand theatrics.

Secondly, when Pale Rider was shot, he got back up to strike as though nothing happened, only to suddenly seize up and his body motions would appear to be that of a heart attack. Though it's not much in the way of evidence, to me this seems more like real life interference rather then anything in-game.

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

And to think that this was written before swatting became a thing. But yeah, I'd say that actually taking your opponent out IRL would count as cheating the game.

By cheating, I mean in-game, not anything like swatting. I don't believe he is doing anything in-game like hacking or 3rd party programs.

[screaming4vengence]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

I'll give Klein some props for figuring out as much as he did. At least that's better than Asuna figuring out that Death Gun was from SAO based on.....absolutely nothing .

My condolences to Sinon that she's getting pushed into damsel in distress territory. Of course kind of expected it since her truama is just that extreme and she was bound to have to face it here. It would be cool if she powered through it enough to grab her gun and shoot at Death Gun, but I still lean on Kirito coming in. It would be a great chance for Sinon to still remain an independent character and allow Kirito to go nuts since he'd probably still race onto the scene.

willing to bet she flipped and it was her gunshot?
....because im pretty sure we didnt just kill off the most interesting/liked character so far

i still see asuna geting involved with ggo and geting killed,it would be sad if anyone here actually liked her.now if the writers did grow the stones to eventually kill sinon (its not happening here lets be honest its a cliff hanger with a 2inch drop) then some tears might get shed.

also ..."i dont see sterban on the map it couldnt possibly be him" are you freaking serious?!?!?!? there are so many flaws with that!
-you just saw a guy disappear underwater and not show up on the map. so its entrely possible to find another way to hide
-process of elimination doesnt work when you cant eliminate other choices completely with 100% certainty.
-the guy in the stadium had an AR style barrel which DG does not have...(when looking through sinons NV towards the stadium) 18:11 for reference

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by screaming4vengence

also ..."i dont see sterban on the map it couldnt possibly be him" are you freaking serious?!?!?!? there are so many flaws with that!
-you just saw a guy disappear underwater and not show up on the map. so its entrely possible to find another way to hide
-process of elimination doesnt work when you cant eliminate other choices completely with 100% certainty.
-the guy in the stadium had an AR style barrel which DG does not have...(when looking through sinons NV towards the stadium) 18:11 for reference

It was said that the position of the players being available at fixed intervals is meant to simulate the result of a non stationary satellite passing above the area. And we know that being underwater prevents the satellite from detecting you.

I think the chances are high that the satellite is working through visuals alone (waves of any kind wouldn't need the satellite to be directly above) which means the reason Death Gun isn't picked up can be simply explained by his cloaking device.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

It was said that the position of the players being available at fixed intervals is meant to simulate the result of a non stationary satellite passing above the area. And we know that being underwater prevents the satellite from detecting you.

I think the chances are high that the satellite is working through visuals alone (waves of any kind wouldn't need the satellite to be directly above) which means the reason Death Gun isn't picked up can be simply explained by his cloaking device.

In that case wouldn't anyone just be able to hide in buildings or anything that has a ceiling, like caves?

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

In that case wouldn't anyone just be able to hide in buildings or anything that has a ceiling, like caves?

I don't know for sure, but I think a lot of scanning devices/machines that are designed to scan the surfaces of earth have difficulties penetrating water. Kirito being Kirito would most likely know this.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

It depends on how good a "simulation" of a satellite view is... it's not omniscient since it's blocked by water, but it should also be blocked by roofed structures and overhangs then.

And this is where Kirito's Gary Stu writing, intentional or not, annoys me. He both seems and acts like a total GGO n00b with regard to things like basic game mechanics and the rules of BoB, but he can apparently intuit such things as how to evade scans—because my experience with game maps and radars wouldn't give me any clues about how to evade this one, as almost every game has a different implementation of such a system. Or he actually did read up on all of the GGO rules somewhere along the line and the infodump scenes with Sinon are just for the viewer's benefit, but he still comes off as an ass that way.

[Metaneo]

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

It depends on how good a "simulation" of a satellite view is... it's not omniscient since it's blocked by water, but it should also be blocked by roofed structures and overhangs then.

If the Satellite uses Radio or Microwaves, it can detect people through walls, and thus people in buildings. However, water tends to absorb these waves, that's why they use Sonar and not Radar on submarines.

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

And this is where Kirito's Gary Stu writing, intentional or not, annoys me. He both seems and acts like a total GGO n00b with regard to things like basic game mechanics and the rules of BoB, but he can apparently intuit such things as how to evade scans—because my experience with game maps and radars wouldn't give me any clues about how to evade this one, as almost every game has a different implementation of such a system. Or he actually did read up on all of the GGO rules somewhere along the line and the infodump scenes with Sinon are just for the viewer's benefit, but he still comes off as an ass that way.

I'm calling BS on your claim of "Gary Stu writing" here. How does Kirito knowing water tends to absorb radar waves make him a Gary Stu? For crying out loud I have zero experience and knowledge in GGO and I knew that. Hell I would have done the same thing Kirito did if I found a river. This tidbit of knowledge is the first thing that popped into my head when it showed Kirito swimming to avoid the satellite scan; "Hey, that's right, water does tend to block radar waves." So what if he didn't actually know if it would work, or if the game was designed that way, but think about it, sure, a battle on a bridge makes for a great showdown, but would the designers of GGO put a river in the Tournament Map if there was absolutely no point to it other then to look pretty?

Is it really all that surprising or hard to believe that someone who aspired to be a genius like Kayaba knows this? Second of all his total "n00b" act, for the most part, is just that, an act. He really does have very little insight into the finer details of the mechanics in GGO, but that doesnt mean he cant use knowledge he already has and apply it to the game.

[IceHism]

Instead of calling it gary stu writing, why don't we just accept that Kirito is actually smart and that he has been smart and logical for most parts of SAO... Is that too hard? He's even trying to make inventions on the same scale as Kayaba Akihiko as well.

There's nothing in this series that tells me Kirito is actually and suppose to be dumb. I think the only bullshit scene that has happened so far is the deus ex machina at the end of aincrad arc.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Detecting a submerged submarine from space may also be possible with various techniques. Which is beyond the scope of GGO, but my point is that it's still a game, and there's plenty of suspension of reality already (shot prediction, being able to deflect multiple bullets with a sword in the first place, etc.).

I would assume that swimming would hide a player from another player's direct view, but would not make that assumption with any sort of game-driven top-down spotting/map system. Most FPS-style "radars" show the position of any player than can be spotted by a friendly, regardless of whether that target happens to be inside solid cover or not. That's not "all" radars, but again, that's where it depends on the game, and being casually tossed into a scenario I'd be inclined to assume the worst case.

Maybe Kirito is thinking that a reality-based game like GGO will have realistic sensors, but I'll refer back to "glowing lines showing him where someone will shoot" and "blocking bullets with an energy sword" in terms of framing GGO in "reality."

Actually, a slight turn of phrase or translation would make me feel better about this: Sinon says "You didn't show up on the map," Kirito says "I was swimming, I guess that helped" would be much less smug than "I swam in the water to evade the sweep," which surprised the girl with the hundreds of hours played.

[dniv]

Originally Posted by Endless Knackwurst

Detecting a submerged submarine from space may also be possible with various techniques. Which is beyond the scope of GGO, but my point is that it's still a game, and there's plenty of suspension of reality already (shot prediction, being able to deflect multiple bullets with a sword in the first place, etc.).

I would assume that swimming would hide a player from another player's direct view, but would not make that assumption with any sort of game-driven top-down spotting/map system. Most FPS-style "radars" show the position of any player than can be spotted by a friendly, regardless of whether that target happens to be inside solid cover or not. That's not "all" radars, but again, that's where it depends on the game, and being casually tossed into a scenario I'd be inclined to assume the worst case.

Maybe Kirito is thinking that a reality-based game like GGO will have realistic sensors, but I'll refer back to "glowing lines showing him where someone will shoot" and "blocking bullets with an energy sword" in terms of framing GGO in "reality."

Well, I would agree with that analysis, except for the fact that Sinon carefully explained to Kirito that the map was analyzed by a satellite that scanned over the map every whatever or so minutes that explained how the map information was gathered. Kirito already had the information ahead of time--so there would be no reason as to why he would not try to do swim which could possibly hide him from the radar. Death Gun seemed to have figured out the exact same rule after all--and he was also supposedly relatively new to the game.

Since Death Gun is also new to the game "apparently;" I'd assume that it isn't unreasonable for SAO survivor types to be able to figure out tricks like that rather quickly.

[Darthtabby]

Uh, Kirito didn't realize that swimming would allow him to evade the satellite scan when he actually did it. He realized it had allowed him to evade the scan afterwards because Sinon questioned how he got where he was and he remembered that he'd been swimming. It was an accidental discovery on his part.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Metaneo

If the Satellite uses Radio or Microwaves, it can detect people through walls, and thus people in buildings. However, water tends to absorb these waves, that's why they use Sonar and not Radar on submarines.

I'm calling BS on your claim of "Gary Stu writing" here. How does Kirito knowing water tends to absorb radar waves make him a Gary Stu? For crying out loud I have zero experience and knowledge in GGO and I knew that. Hell I would have done the same thing Kirito did if I found a river. This tidbit of knowledge is the first thing that popped into my head when it showed Kirito swimming to avoid the satellite scan; "Hey, that's right, water does tend to block radar waves."

And you can tell which person you are detecting using radiowaves from a satellite on space?

There is also still the point that radio wave detection shouldn't be limited to a single instant in a satellite's orbit like visual scanning is.

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Rewatched the scene, and, yeah, Kirito didn't know that he'd be immune from scanning, so my bad on that part. Still leaves the oddity of Sinon not knowing that that would work, though that's plausible if it's a rare game mechanic mostly limited to tournaments like BoB (though someone had to have tried it at some point, gamers try everything).