Gift ~ Eternal Rainbow

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by Kefit

I actually thought that this scene was pretty poignant. The cup-phone is clearly something she and Haruhiko used to talk to eachother when they were younger, before cells phones came around. If she was troubled, she could make a call with the cup, and he would be there (the reverse, of course, is also true). Now, in the depths of desperation, she picks up the cup to give this old trick a try; if nothing else, an item from the past, when she was closer to Haruhiko, must be comforting to her current state of mind. Of course, there is no answer now, no one to comfort her in her time of need.

Too bad the music playing during this scene is so ominous and foreboding. It certainly does give the impression that something is very wrong in Kirino's mind. But Ui Miyazaki's voice acting does a great job of conveying her desperation while keeping her safely within the realm of sanity.

hmmmm yeah it's sad that the only person that can comfort her now is the person that is the reason for her being sad, the cup scene was indeed quite creepy and i just get the feeling that she is barely containing her rage and anxiety.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kefit

In short, Kirino needs to be given some time to sort things out and heal before people demonize her. If after the initial backlash we will see in the coming episodes she doesn't improve, then yes, something is very wrong. But the emotional response we have seen from her thus far is perfectly normal.

I agree 100%. If it seems like I've been demonizing her, that wasn't my intent. Her reaction so far is in no way extreme, and in no way abnormal. I don't fault her being selfish, nor do I fault her for, in her desperation, seeking to use the one thing she has left that Riko doesn't: Gift. I don't see that as revenge. I don't think Kirino's gone off the deep end, I don't think she has or is going to "go Kaede" (my most hated part of Shuffle, incidentally), and I don't think the problem she faces is unsurmountable by any means. As you said, she just needs time to sort things out and heal; to accept reality and come to terms with it. In other words, she needs to grieve her loss, and find a way to move on. If she's being selfish, childish, or a bit desperate as she walks down that journey of acceptance, then she's only being normal.

Originally Posted by Kefit

What, exactly, makes Kirino's desire to be together with Haruhiko any more impure or selfish than Haruhiko's desire to be with Riko, or Riko's to be with Haruhiko? The fact that it isn't a mutual desire? But Kirino has no control over that, so why should that facet of her desire reflect badly upon herself?

Certainly, trying to manifest this desire in a Gift isn't a good idea, but I don't see how it could be labeled as revenge, as many people have been doing. Kirino isn't out to harm Haruhiko or Riko. She loves them both; they are her closest friends. She only wants to have her own desires fulfilled. Hell, it seems that she intends to go out of her way to insure that Haruhiko and Riko are happy too, at least if we go by her intention to "give the future Haruhiko to Riko."

You basically answered the question the way I would have. There's nothing inherently wrong or abnormal about Kirino wanting to love Haruhiko and have him love her back. But using Gift to "sway things her way" won't bring her happiness because she'll find herself hurting Riko (and Haruhiko, and even herself) in the process. That would be the danger in giving her desire a tangible form (putting "power behind it"), and is why I'm quite sure she'll ultimately come to realize that having her way "like this" isn't what she wants. So, in order to move on, she'll have to sacrifice that selfishness (the desire to manipulate reality to get what she wants) and accept the truth. That's what I meant by "impure" and "selfish" - manipulating reality, not being in love.

Kirino doesn't have my disdain by any means whatsoever. If anything, I can identify with what she's going through in my own small way from my own life experiences. So, if it seems like I'm being overly harsh, that wasn't my intent. I'm hoping for all the characters to have a happy ending.

[Owaranai Destiny]

Originally Posted by Kefit

I actually thought that this scene was pretty poignant. The cup-phone is clearly something she and Haruhiko used to talk to eachother when they were younger, before cells phones came around. If she was troubled, she could make a call with the cup, and he would be there (the reverse, of course, is also true). Now, in the depths of desperation, she picks up the cup to give this old trick a try; if nothing else, an item from the past, when she was closer to Haruhiko, must be comforting to her current state of mind. Of course, there is no answer now, no one to comfort her in her time of need.

What I meant to say that it's probably the only piece of evidence in the entire episode that she was anywhere close to being emotionally unstable, let alone batshit insane. It's a jibe at anyone who pretty much thinks that she's Kaede MK2.

It's also precisely why I think she wants to live the past now, since the present presents her with a cloudy sky of hopelessness in regards to her relationship with Haruhiko, which also ties in with the next episode-As the preview has so aptly shown. She wants the past Haruhiko, the one when Riko hasn't entered their lives yet and from her desperation to get an answer from Haruhiko thanks to that mindset mentioned above, Kirino starts to speak into the cup itself.

Of course, living the past isn't going to solve anything, so the next few conclusive episodes should cause her to stop doing so and eventually move on. The process for her might be tough, though.

That's what I meant by "impure" and "selfish" - manipulating reality, not being in love.

If you put it that way, it sounds reasonable indeed. Eventually she should come to realise that as well, but for now, her point of view would be that Riko was the selfish one because of the broken promise and her "barging" into their lives. Who could blame her?

As long as there's a good resolution without any kind of stupid bloodshed or insanity scenarios more than one person has mentioned, it's all good.

[Kaoru Chujo]

I agree that Kirino has gone nowhere near as far as boxcutter Kaede...yet. And I'd just as soon she didn't, personally. But remember that Suzuki Masashi, the main writer on this show, was also the main writer on Shuffle. And he was also involved in writing Jigoku Shoujo. So he has the riffs and can play them if he wants to. That thing with the cup and string was a good start.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Owaranai Destiny

Eventually she should come to realise that as well, but for now, her point of view would be that Riko was the selfish one because of the broken promise and her "barging" into their lives. Who could blame her?

As long as there's a good resolution without any kind of stupid bloodshed or insanity scenarios more than one person has mentioned, it's all good.

Right on. There's a good reason why they've shown us the Gift examples we've seen so far and, so far at least, there's every reason to believe that those will come into evidence in the conclusion. If they do that, I'll be quite pleased with the show.

[holyman282]

So what you're saying relentless is that all the previous gift examples that i thought was mere fillers, actually had meaning in them? That meaning being to build up examples of how a gift works and evetually put all those examples together to solve the problem Kirino's gift will cause?

Personally i'm against Haruhiko using his gift to counter or in a way disable Kirino's gift, as the definition of a gift is a miracle that one person gives to another when their hearts connect and personally i would expect the gift from Haruhiko to be given to Riko, and not used because situation calls for it.

[Kefit]

Just because Haruhiko loves Riko romantically, it doesn't mean that she is the only suitable recepient for his Gift. Likewise, just because someone gives you their Gift, it doesn't mean that they love you romantically. Of the four Gifts we have seen thus far in this series, only two were between people who shared mutual romantic love.

And what better time for a miracle than when the situation calls for it? It wouldn't be quite as miraculous if it wasn't really needed, now would it?

[Skyfall]

Originally Posted by holyman282

So what you're saying relentless is that all the previous gift examples that i thought was mere fillers, actually had meaning in them? That meaning being to build up examples of how a gift works and evetually put all those examples together to solve the problem Kirino's gift will cause?

In no way were they mere fillers - they indeed showed us how gift works, and the fact that it has pretty impressive powers, and as well the fact that things go pretty terribly wrong if the feelings are not mutual and represents selfish/one sided feelings.(which, no doubt, is the case we are going to experience - it will backfire sooner or later.

You are saying they are mere fillers? So, would it be better if we were told that gift is some magic trick that makes ones wish come true, but suddenly we would see an opposite outcome with suposedly no reason behind it?

Personally i'm against Haruhiko using his gift to counter or in a way disable Kirino's gift, as the definition of a gift is a miracle that one person gives to another when their hearts connect and personally i would expect the gift from Haruhiko to be given to Riko, and not used because situation calls for it.

I'll quote Kefit on this one: "Just because Haruhiko loves Riko romantically, it doesn't mean that she is the only suitable recepient for his Gift. Likewise, just because someone gives you their Gift, it doesn't mean that they love you romantically".

Why not use it when the situation calls for it? He could use it in many ways,be it countering Kirino's Gift, or as a sample of their friendship - to show Kirino that she is also important to him and that he wants to remain her friend(provided that he wants it) and is not going to vanish from her life completely(which is what Kirino probably thinks). It can be a gift of mutual friendship as well, no? (provided he uses his gift on Kirino)

[holyman282]

hmmm i guess if you say it that way i suppose a gift can also show mutual friendship, personally i doubt Haruhiko would use his gift to counter Kirino's gift though, although the other option you mentioned skyfall could be possible, as we have seen through other examples of gift use, none of it was resolved by using another person's gift to counter it, rather it was merely getting the giver and the receipient's hearts to connect and therefore make the gift genuine, so frankly i'm hoping that Haruhiko will resolve Kirino's gift by their hearts maybe connecting as friends and hopefully use his gift for Riko for a soap opera ending lol.

[Morikawa Yuki]

I have a question: for the Chisa-centric episode. Did Chisa give the gift back to her mother or did she use her gift to rid herself of the power? Does Chisa still have her gift?
If gift could be given, but also returned, providing, of course, between two mutually consenting hearts, Haruhiko does not necessary have to use his gift to counter Kirino's gift, he could just give it back to her when she becomes emotionally mature and realizes that her refusal to move on is hurting everyone involved.

[grey_moon]

I am having a little trouble dealing with Kirino's issue. Not in regards to if she is right or wrong in her actions, but in the sense of what are her goals.

In epi 9 she states that she wants to be Haruhiko's little sister so she can stay with him forever... Well Riko it seems doesn't want to be the sister but a lover instead... So I can't see where the problem is, unless Kirino means something different when she says little sister

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Morikawa Yuki

I have a question: for the Chisa-centric episode. Did Chisa give the gift back to her mother or did she use her gift to rid herself of the power? Does Chisa still have her gift?
If gift could be given, but also returned, providing, of course, between two mutually consenting hearts, Haruhiko does not necessary have to use his gift to counter Kirino's gift, he could just give it back to her when she becomes emotionally mature and realizes that her refusal to move on is hurting everyone involved.

That's actually a good question. I think (and had been thinking) she just gave the Gift back without invoking her own Gift, but they don't actually make it completely clear in that scene. It would at least make sense to me if you could return a Gift without invoking your own (provided the two people's feelings were still mutual). We know for certain, though, that you can return an incomplete Gift (as seen in Rinka's episode), so the Gift won't actually "work" unless Kirino and Haruhiko's feelings are mutual.

Originally Posted by grey_moon

In epi 9 she states that she wants to be Haruhiko's little sister so she can stay with him forever... Well Riko it seems doesn't want to be the sister but a lover instead... So I can't see where the problem is, unless Kirino means something different when she says little sister

Yes... that was commented on earlier. Right now, she's very distraught and mixing things up. Growing up, before Riko came along, she always wanted to be Haruhiko's sister. Then, Riko came by and actually became his sister (thus "stealing him" the first time). During that first time with Riko, she came to realize that both she and Riko actually loved him, and that made them rivals, which is when they promised not to use Gift. However, in Kirino's mind, Riko's use of Gift did break that promise, and led to her love being returned (thus "stealing him" the second time). Right now, she's not being clear on what she wants, but in her current mindset, "any Haruhiko" is better than what she perceives as the current reality of no Haruhiko at all. So, my interpretation is that she's proposed (essentially) to let Riko and Haruhiko be lovers, so long as she can be his sister (thus "stealing" the past - title of the next episode). I hope that makes a bit more sense... (and I hope that everyone agrees with my interpretation ).

Originally Posted by holyman282

So what you're saying relentless is that all the previous gift examples that i thought was mere fillers, actually had meaning in them? That meaning being to build up examples of how a gift works and evetually put all those examples together to solve the problem Kirino's gift will cause?

Exactly.

[holyman282]

In other words she is confused about her feelings for Haruhiko and believes the jelousy inside her is cause because she wants to be Haruhiko's sister but in fact she really wants to be lovers.

[martino]

So Kirino is no wimp...

I wonder what her Gift will do... *imagines Riko during an acid rain storm and therefore a big ecchi scene*

[npal]

Originally Posted by martino

So Kirino is no wimp...

*nod nod

Originally Posted by martino

I wonder what her Gift will do... *imagines Riko during an acid rain storm and therefore a big ecchi scene*

*thinks... Em.. wouldn't that ruin her skin?

[martino]

Probably...

A SPECIAL ACID RAIN!

[mangatron]

Originally Posted by martino

Probably...

A SPECIAL ACID RAIN!

I think what you're looking for is that Chemical in the last episode of FMP Fumoffu

Or maybe it's a Divine wind sort of thing like Negi's sneeze, except, you know....hurricane style winds XD

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by mangatron

I think what you're looking for is that Chemical in the last episode of FMP Fumoffu

Yo Lolitron,

That is actually a bacteria not a chemical.

[serenade_beta]

Hmmm... I wonder how many already know. According to wikipedia, Gift seems to have a DVD-only OVA as "episode 13".

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Hmmm... I wonder how many already know. According to wikipedia, Gift seems to have a DVD-only OVA as "episode 13".

Yup - I mentioned that here two months ago. What remains to be seen, though, is whether that episode will be the conclusion of the story, or whether it'll be an omake. Either way, we'll have to wait six months to see it... so I'm sort of hoping it'll be an omake.