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1337_haxor · 2012-10-13, 08:42

At least the not always drop grief seed thing explains why motherfucking Walpurgis never drops something to save Madoka in any of the timelines.

Also, there is a catch why some girls just can't kill themselves on zero hour.

Because their bodies are shells controled by the SG through magic, when they are too weak and consumed they simply lack the strenght needed to move their bodies and kill themselves.

It doesn't help that Soul Gems have to be 100 meters close to the body for it to work, when a girl is on the verge of witchification she can't use her magic to shoot her soul gem and that leaves her only with normal itens and the environment to do the job.

Unless she has a gun or happens to be close to a skyscrapper window (throw it to crash on the concrete) or traffic rush (throw the gem to be run over), you will have a hard time getting rid of your soul without magic.

AuraTwilight · 2012-10-13, 15:13

Quote:

At least the not always drop grief seed thing explains why motherfucking Walpurgis never drops something to save Madoka in any of the timelines.

Except it does, according to the PSP game. It just falls too far away given how huge Walpurgis is.

Witched · 2012-10-13, 19:25

So basically, it's pretty much Nico's fault for getting everyone screwed over or something?

Also, did they just dump Michiru's Grief Seed and fed it to Jubey?

***CrowKenobi*** · 2012-10-13, 21:05

Yen Press Adds Madoka Magica Spinoff Manga, Last K-ON Volumes

Both Kazumi and Oriko are now licensed in R1!

Carry on the current discussion (no changes need to be done).

Diveman · 2012-10-13, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witched

So basically, it's pretty much Nico's fault for getting everyone screwed over or something?

Also, did they just dump Michiru's Grief Seed and fed it to Jubey?

Uhm if I recall correctly, they used it + her witch remains in order to make Kazumi or something like that. I might need to re-read that part though.

uhm...what Nico did was correct, is just that they didn't know (a.k.a Kyubei didnt tell them) that they the cleaning process doesn't quite work like that.

ndqanh_vn · 2012-10-21, 20:15

It's...so strange. So witches did not always drop Grief Seed?

Why that information have been kept secret until now? There were no mentions of it in the anime or manga. It is easy just for some magical girl to explain to Kazumi (or Madoka) : "Btw, some witches did not drop anything..."

I know that Walpurgis never dropped GS, but it could be explained by how big the battle field is, and the fact that the are all very confused by different reasons after fighting with her. And she might not be a normal witch after all.

But those witches are not so different right? They have Soul Germs right? They have became witches, so their Soul Germs must have been corrupted right? So where the hell did it go? What happens to the whole principle that the franchise run on?

Let's hope it has a good explanation in the next chapter and not a totally ass pull to spite drama into the climax.

AuraTwilight · 2012-10-21, 21:59

Given how all the other apparent rule-breakings had ingenious twists, I suspect something is up. Gen is supervising this manga, afterall, and drafts were re-written back when it was concurrent with the anime.

I fully expect that it might have something to do with the Soul Gem polishing. Who knows what glitches that made.

SonozakiUshiromiya · 2012-10-21, 23:01

@AuraTwilight
I'm going with you on this. I would have preferred Kazumi destroying the Grief Seed, but if they can pull it off, then by all means. Leaving it as is, among other things, makes Kyoko's 'food chain' talk pointless.

ndqanh_vn · 2012-10-21, 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

Given how all the other apparent rule-breakings had ingenious twists, I suspect something is up. Gen is supervising this manga, afterall, and drafts were re-written back when it was concurrent with the anime.

I fully expect that it might have something to do with the Soul Gem polishing. Who knows what glitches that made.

Well, me too, I hope that this has some decent explanation. The theory about AoE effect I think it is wrong, because apparently Soul Germs could survive Mami's massive canon after all.

Just one question, in the flashback of Yuuri/Airi, it is Kyubey who makes contract with her. We could only see the shadow but it is quite clear that it is Kyubey, judging from the silhouette (Juubey's long .twin..tails or some things did not come out of his ears like QB)

If Umika has reset the memories of everybody in the city and replace Kyubey by Juubey, then why in that flashback Kyubey is still here?

AuraTwilight · 2012-10-21, 23:30

Foreshadowing. In the flashback where Michiru meets Mami, we see Kyubey's sillouhoute but it turns out to be Jyubey.

As for the Grief Seed thing, there's something we should consider here. Some people argue that Walpurgis had no Grief Seed. Well guess what. That witch Kazumi just killed was also a fusion of witches, technically. It was made of two Magical Girls. Could the fusion process fuck up the Grief Seed formation?

Also, the focus on Kazumi's earrings is totally important. Calling it now, they function as her Grief Seeds and she'll use them to save her friends.

ndqanh_vn · 2012-10-21, 23:53

All this discussion let me to wonder how tough Soul Germs and Grief Seeds are. Grief Seeds could survive very destructive magic attack and Homuhomu's gunpowder. But in Oriko manga there is a case with Soul Germ got cracked, which I assume accelerating the rate she becomes a witch.

Quote:

As for the Grief Seed thing, there's something we should consider here. Some people argue that Walpurgis had no Grief Seed. Well guess what. That witch Kazumi just killed was also a fusion of witches, technically. It was made of two Magical Girls. Could the fusion process fuck up the Grief Seed formation?

It sounds logical enough. Btw, did you say in the game Walpurgis did drop a GS? I haven't played it or read anything about the game, so this piece of information is really new.

Actually I still thing that there is one thing they did not answer well...How could Nico's bullet got knocked back by a vase?

)

And maybe this has been discussed or mentioned before, but it seemed weird that Saki did not wish for her sister back. Mami was in an emergency. Kazumi's grandmother probably has had lived out her lifetime and they feel content to let her rest. But Saki did have plenty time to consider, and her sister's dead is quite sudden, regretable. It is strange that she only wished for the flower something to be forever bloom...

AuraTwilight · 2012-10-22, 01:15

Yea, Walpurgis does drop a Grief Seed in the game, which you can even use on future timelines and the like. But perhaps it's just a gameplay segregation.

As for why Saki didn't revive her sister alive, maybe she didn't think she could have that, like with Charlotte.

Shadow5YA · 2012-10-23, 01:29

Not all Witches in the original series had a Grief Seed either. Remember the familiar Sayaka was hunting before Kyoko appeared and told her to let it run amok for a bit so it can develop some more?

Remember all the Witches that were killed in Episode 10? Can you remember how many times a Grief Seed actually dropped?

AuraTwilight · 2012-10-23, 04:46

Familiars aren't Witches...

And in fairness to Episode 10, there was so much going on with so many scene-skips that we can't really verify anything about whether Grief Seeds dropped or where. Grief Seeds have been shown on screen to land several yards away, they're not prone to falling literally at your feet.

Diveman · 2012-10-23, 09:59

Well, remember how Kyuubei didn't mention that Soul Gems were actually the girl's sould until that incident with Sayaka happened? I guess is the same case here, he wasn't lying, he was just concealing information.

AuraTwilight · 2012-10-23, 14:10

It still strikes me as an asspull, but I'm okay with it because of what Kazumi will have to do as a result. Still, it would've been better to have just subtracted a witch from the storyboard.

shanazumi01 · 2012-10-24, 03:30

do you think guys theres a possibility that kazumi could cleanse their soul gems

remember guys,kazumi's soul gem is a combination of a grief seed and a soul gem

AuraTwilight · 2012-10-24, 05:06

It's really not. It's quite literally a Grief Seed in a different shape, since she's a Witch.

Barring an asspull, there's no reason that Kazumi shouldn't be able to take on the corruption, and I'm certain that's exactly why no Grief Seed was dropped.

blitz1/2 · 2012-10-24, 20:15

Has the 5th volume been released? or approx. date?

Diveman · 2012-10-24, 20:18

I don't know, but the next chapter should be up in a few days, I can't wait to see what's gonna happen now!

EDIT: oh and apparently we were wrong about Jyuubei's name. It wasn't related to any number, it actually means: "Juuzoku Suru Incubator" or "The incubator that follows us"

2012-10-13, 08:42	Link #381
1337_haxor Member Join Date: Jun 2012	Well... At least the not always drop grief seed thing explains why motherfucking Walpurgis never drops something to save Madoka in any of the timelines. Also, there is a catch why some girls just can't kill themselves on zero hour. Because their bodies are shells controled by the SG through magic, when they are too weak and consumed they simply lack the strenght needed to move their bodies and kill themselves. It doesn't help that Soul Gems have to be 100 meters close to the body for it to work, when a girl is on the verge of witchification she can't use her magic to shoot her soul gem and that leaves her only with normal itens and the environment to do the job. Unless she has a gun or happens to be close to a skyscrapper window (throw it to crash on the concrete) or traffic rush (throw the gem to be run over), you will have a hard time getting rid of your soul without magic.

2012-10-21, 21:59	Link #387
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Given how all the other apparent rule-breakings had ingenious twists, I suspect something is up. Gen is supervising this manga, afterall, and drafts were re-written back when it was concurrent with the anime. I fully expect that it might have something to do with the Soul Gem polishing. Who knows what glitches that made. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-10-21, 23:01	Link #388
SonozakiUshiromiya Reading your tale. :) Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Just out of sight, eating popcorn. >:D	@AuraTwilight I'm going with you on this. I would have preferred Kazumi destroying the Grief Seed, but if they can pull it off, then by all means. Leaving it as is, among other things, makes Kyoko's 'food chain' talk pointless. __________________

2012-10-21, 23:30	Link #390
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Foreshadowing. In the flashback where Michiru meets Mami, we see Kyubey's sillouhoute but it turns out to be Jyubey. As for the Grief Seed thing, there's something we should consider here. Some people argue that Walpurgis had no Grief Seed. Well guess what. That witch Kazumi just killed was also a fusion of witches, technically. It was made of two Magical Girls. Could the fusion process fuck up the Grief Seed formation? Also, the focus on Kazumi's earrings is totally important. Calling it now, they function as her Grief Seeds and she'll use them to save her friends. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-10-22, 01:15	Link #392
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Yea, Walpurgis does drop a Grief Seed in the game, which you can even use on future timelines and the like. But perhaps it's just a gameplay segregation. As for why Saki didn't revive her sister alive, maybe she didn't think she could have that, like with Charlotte. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-10-13, 19:25	Link #383
Witched Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011	So basically, it's pretty much Nico's fault for getting everyone screwed over or something? Also, did they just dump Michiru's Grief Seed and fed it to Jubey?

2012-10-13, 21:05	Link #384
*CrowKenobi* One PUNCH! Administrator Join Date: Dec 2005	Yen Press Adds Madoka Magica Spinoff Manga, Last K-ON Volumes Both Kazumi and Oriko are now licensed in R1! Carry on the current discussion (no changes need to be done).

2012-10-21, 20:15	Link #386
ndqanh_vn Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011	It's...so strange. So witches did not always drop Grief Seed? Why that information have been kept secret until now? There were no mentions of it in the anime or manga. It is easy just for some magical girl to explain to Kazumi (or Madoka) : "Btw, some witches did not drop anything..." I know that Walpurgis never dropped GS, but it could be explained by how big the battle field is, and the fact that the are all very confused by different reasons after fighting with her. And she might not be a normal witch after all. But those witches are not so different right? They have Soul Germs right? They have became witches, so their Soul Germs must have been corrupted right? So where the hell did it go? What happens to the whole principle that the franchise run on? Let's hope it has a good explanation in the next chapter and not a totally ass pull to spite drama into the climax.

2012-10-23, 01:29	Link #393
Shadow5YA Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	Not all Witches in the original series had a Grief Seed either. Remember the familiar Sayaka was hunting before Kyoko appeared and told her to let it run amok for a bit so it can develop some more? Remember all the Witches that were killed in Episode 10? Can you remember how many times a Grief Seed actually dropped?

2012-10-23, 04:46	Link #394
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	Familiars aren't Witches... And in fairness to Episode 10, there was so much going on with so many scene-skips that we can't really verify anything about whether Grief Seeds dropped or where. Grief Seeds have been shown on screen to land several yards away, they're not prone to falling literally at your feet. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-10-23, 09:59	Link #395
Diveman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	Well, remember how Kyuubei didn't mention that Soul Gems were actually the girl's sould until that incident with Sayaka happened? I guess is the same case here, he wasn't lying, he was just concealing information.

2012-10-23, 14:10	Link #396
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	It still strikes me as an asspull, but I'm okay with it because of what Kazumi will have to do as a result. Still, it would've been better to have just subtracted a witch from the storyboard. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-10-24, 03:30	Link #397
shanazumi01 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2012	do you think guys theres a possibility that kazumi could cleanse their soul gems remember guys,kazumi's soul gem is a combination of a grief seed and a soul gem

2012-10-24, 05:06	Link #398
AuraTwilight The True Culprit Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: The Golden Land	It's really not. It's quite literally a Grief Seed in a different shape, since she's a Witch. Barring an asspull, there's no reason that Kazumi shouldn't be able to take on the corruption, and I'm certain that's exactly why no Grief Seed was dropped. __________________ When the Silent Spirits Cry: An Umineko/Silent Hill crossover fanfiction http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4565173&postcount=531

2012-10-24, 20:15	Link #399
blitz1/2 Tenshi's Defense Squadron Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Fighting against those who oppress the system	Has the 5th volume been released? or approx. date? __________________ hai, hai. Onii-chan has his work cut out for him.

2012-10-24, 20:18	Link #400
Diveman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011	I don't know, but the next chapter should be up in a few days, I can't wait to see what's gonna happen now! EDIT: oh and apparently we were wrong about Jyuubei's name. It wasn't related to any number, it actually means: "Juuzoku Suru Incubator" or "The incubator that follows us" Last edited by Diveman; 2012-10-24 at 20:31.