Character Discussion - Shinichiro's mother

[Pellissier]

The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Shinichiro's mother related.
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Note: Please don't use this for the specific episode talk, there are already threads serving that purpose.

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[cloudninja]

We know she's the source of tension and friction within the household. Most of what I remember of her scenes in the show is that she has an ongoing issue with Shinichiro which causes him to avoid her and that she almost seems to enjoy harassing Hiromi.

Spoiler for thoughts on shin's mother, assumes you are up to date on episodes:

In Shinichiro's case it is his dream of being a picture book writer that is putting him at odds with his mother. Since the episode 1 incident with her looking at his rejection letter from a publisher, Shin has avoided talking to his mother several times. It's likely that she wants him to succeed his father in running the brewery. Now why does'nt he just sit down and discuss the issue with his mother? I guess it's because she does'nt seem to be the reasonable and understanding type, in fact she appears to be just the opposite. I'm sure he's had previous bad experiences with his mother that make him think that talking with her won't end well. So it's hard to blame him for wanting to keep this precious dream of his alive by avoiding her when it's likely that his previous wishes for his life that went counter to hers have been mercilessly stamped out. A resolution likely won't happen until his father makes his opinion known.

Poor Hiromi. Shin's mother sure seems to enjoy harassing her. A notable example is in episode 3 where Shinichiro arrives home at night to find his mother demanding that Hiromi go out and deliver a bottle of alcohol. Shinichiro does'nt hear the earlier part of the conversation but if you turn up the volume you can hear his mother saying to Hiromi "I need you to deliver this. But you continue to behave rudely". As we find out later she is afraid to walk on that road alone at night so that's why she was resistant at first to his mother's demand. Shin defends her by saying "It's late, we can deliver it tomorrow" to which his mother replies "We promised to deliver it today". I think this is something that could have and should have been done earlier that day but she waited until the evening to make Hiromi do it. I like how Shinichiro in this instance supports Hiromi against his mother's unfair treatment by taking the bottle himself to deliver it.

In episode 4 she interrupts Shinichiro and Hiromi near the end of the awkward and emotional exchange between them, probably on purpose as I did'nt see or hear a door opening before she steps into the hallway. Upon further viewing I believe she was listening in on them and interrupted before it could go further. As Hiromi walks away, Shin's mother remarks "Those eyes look exactly like your mother's". The way she said it and the way Hiromi reacts makes it obvious she hated Hiromi's mother and has transposed that hate at least in part to Hiromi. Now you could interpret that in many ways and theorize why she hated Hiromi's mother. I just don't like the most obvious theory that Hiromi is Shinichiro's half-sister because of an affair between Shin's father and Hiromi's mother. I believe that's too cliched and obvious. Because of the good writing and story so far and because good writers are experts at misdirection I expect something much better.

Here's my favorite theory

Spoiler for theory on relationships between parents of Shinichiro and Hiromi:

Take the parents of Hiromi and Shinichiro. Let's say the modern day equivalent of Hiromi's parents is the Shinichiro-Hiromi pairing while the equivalent versions of Shinichiro's parents are Nobuse and Aiko.

Now imagine if Aiko has to eventually settle for Nobuse but never gets over Shinichiro and becomes jealous and spiteful of Hiromi. Shinichiro and Nobuse are best friends so the two families stay in touch. Shinichiro and Hiromi have a daughter while Nobuse and Aiko have a son. Shinichiro and Hiromi both die and the daughter goes to live with Nobuse and Aiko. Aiko then takes out her hatred of Hiromi on Hiromi's daughter, especially when she sees the girl getting close to her son.

I basically used a roundabout way of saying that Shin's mother was in love with Hiromi's father while showing that you can draw a parallel of the relationships between their parents and the Shin-Hiromi + Nobuse-Aiko pairings.

[grey_moon]

So that I don't break any of the rules, I can't really post in this thread.... But cloudninja's post is great and covers a lot of my thoughts about the wench in a well written and intelligent way

[billbrown]

Originally Posted by cloudninja

We know she's the source of tension and friction within the household. Most of what I remember of her scenes in the show is that she has an ongoing issue with Shinichiro which causes him to avoid her and that she almost seems to enjoy harassing Hiromi.

Spoiler for thoughts on shin's mother, assumes you are up to date on episodes:

In Shinichiro's case it is his dream of being a picture book writer that is putting him at odds with his mother. Since the episode 1 incident with her looking at his rejection letter from a publisher, Shin has avoided talking to his mother several times. It's likely that she wants him to succeed his father in running the brewery. Now why does'nt he just sit down and discuss the issue with his mother? I guess it's because she does'nt seem to be the reasonable and understanding type, in fact she appears to be just the opposite. I'm sure he's had previous bad experiences with his mother that make him think that talking with her won't end well. So it's hard to blame him for wanting to keep this precious dream of his alive by avoiding her when it's likely that his previous wishes for his life that went counter to hers have beem mercilessly stamped out. A resolution likely won't happen until his father makes his opinion known.

Poor Hiromi. Shin's mother sure seems to enjoy harassing her. A notable example is in episode 3 where Shinichiro arrives home at night to find his mother demanding that Hiromi go out and deliver a bottle of alcohol. Shinichiro does'nt hear the earlier part of the conversation but if you turn up the volume you can hear his mother saying to Hiromi "I need you to deliver this. But you continue to behave rudely". As we find out later she is afraid to walk on that road alone at night so that's why she was resistant at first to his mother's demand. Shin defends her by saying "It's late, we can deliver it tomorrow" to which his mother replies "We promised to deliver it today". I think this is something that could have and should have been done earlier that day but she waited until the evening to make Hiromi do it. I like how Shinichiro in this instance supports Hiromi against his mother's unfair treatment by taking the bottle himself to deliver it.

In episode 4 she interrupts Shinichiro and Hiromi near the end of the awkward and emotional exchange between them, probably on purpose as I did'nt see or hear a door opening before she steps into the hallway. Upon further viewing I believe she was listening in on them and interrupted before it could go further. As Hiromi walks away, Shin's mother remarks "Those eyes look exactly like your mother's". The way she said it and the way Hiromi reacts makes it obvious she hated Hiromi's mother and has transposed that hate at least in part to Hiromi. Now you could interpret that in many ways and theorize why she hated Hiromi's mother. I just don't like the most obvious theory that Hiromi is Shinichiro's half-sister because of an affair between Shin's father and Hiromi's mother. I believe that's too cliched and obvious. Because of the good writing and story so far and because good writers are experts at misdirection I expect something much better.

Here's my favorite theory

Spoiler for theory on relationships between parents of Shinichiro and Hiromi:

Take the parents of Hiromi and Shinichiro. Let's say the modern day equivalent of Hiromi's parents is the Shinichiro-Hiromi pairing while the equivalent versions of Shinichiro's parents are Nobuse and Aiko.

Now imagine if Aiko has to eventually settle for Nobuse but never gets over Shinichiro and becomes jealous and spiteful of Hiromi. Shinichiro and Nobuse are best friends so the two families stay in touch. Shinichiro and Hiromi have a daughter while Nobuse and Aiko have a son. Shinichiro and Hiromi both die and the daughter goes to live with Nobuse and Aiko. Aiko then takes out her hatred of Hiromi on Hiromi's daughter, especially when she sees the girl getting close to her son.

I basically used a roundabout way of saying that Shin's mother was in love with Hiromi's father while showing that you can draw a parallel of the relationships between their parents and the Shin-Hiromi + Nobuse-Aiko pairings.

Spoiler:

I agree with your theory, and I believe that to be the most likely scenario. The other possibility which isn't so distant either would be Shin's father having an affair with Hiromi's mother(this doesn't necessarily mean Hiromi's his half-sister). It's quite possible that both suppositions could be true.

[KholdStare]

Originally Posted by cloudninja

Spoiler for theory on relationships between parents of Shinichiro and Hiromi:

Take the parents of Hiromi and Shinichiro. Let's say the modern day equivalent of Hiromi's parents is the Shinichiro-Hiromi pairing while the equivalent versions of Shinichiro's parents are Nobuse and Aiko.

Now imagine if Aiko has to eventually settle for Nobuse but never gets over Shinichiro and becomes jealous and spiteful of Hiromi. Shinichiro and Nobuse are best friends so the two families stay in touch. Shinichiro and Hiromi have a daughter while Nobuse and Aiko have a son. Shinichiro and Hiromi both die and the daughter goes to live with Nobuse and Aiko. Aiko then takes out her hatred of Hiromi on Hiromi's daughter, especially when she sees the girl getting close to her son.

I basically used a roundabout way of saying that Shin's mother was in love with Hiromi's father while showing that you can draw a parallel of the relationships between their parents and the Shin-Hiromi + Nobuse-Aiko pairings.

Excellent, excellent well thoughtout theory. I see this being possible. Although the overall gist of the theory has been suggested many times, you actually compared it to something from the present and took me along with it. Bonus points.

[Kaoru Chujo]

cloudninja's theory makes the most sense to me (she was in love with Hiromi's father), but billbrown's version of the opposing theory is also possible (Shin's father used to love Hiromi's mother, but Hiromi isn't their child).

What I want to say is that I can feel some sympathy for her. Imagine that you have been living more-or-less happily with your husband and beloved son for 14 years, then the child of this person who wronged you (in your mind) is foisted upon you, without you being able to do anything about it. You see your son drifting away from you, with his father encouraging him (in your eyes), and now this outside girl comes in to make the situation even worse.

She is apparently not being fair to Hiromi, but I can at least understand why she might feel as she does. It appears that she and her husband don't necessarily get along all that well, and the only light left in her life is her son, and the possibility that he might succeed to the business. But now he is rebelling and wanting to be, of all things, an artist. And your effing husband even seems to be encouraging it. How depressing and frustrating that all must be for a capable woman who has had to live her life through her men. One more thing: I wonder if the sake brewery comes from her family, and Shin's father married into it. So she really wants her son to come into the business and continue her family's involvement.

[tripperazn]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

One more thing: I wonder if the sake brewery comes from her family, and Shin's father married into it. So she really wants her son to come into the business and continue her family's involvement.

IIRC, we do see Shin's dad working in the brewery at least once, while his mom is always seen doing housework. Also, when they were looking at the photoalbums, that young worker calls Shin's dad "oyaji", which probably implies a pretty close working relationship in the family business.

I don't think the sake brewery needs to be from her family for her to care a lot that Shin inherits it. If you look at the setting, it's pretty rural. The high school is called "mugiha", I'm assuming "mugi" as in 麦 (barley). Shin is also practicing rural dance. Generally, people living there are more traditional. Given that Shin is their only son, it's natural that she'd want him to continue the family business. I think it's much more likely she's just one of those old-fashioned people, especially given the setting of True Tears.

To go along with cloudninja's theory, Shin's mom says, "You're on her side too, aren't you?" Implying that the dad also supports Hiromi. Shin's dad is also caught saying that Hiromi is their daughter now too, just like how Shin is their son. It's strange to accept someone else's kid so easily, isn't it? Unless there is indeed a connection.

[KholdStare]

I like cloudninja's version because it doesn't immediately jump to incest like it would make the anime more interesting or something. And to tripperazn, I agree that there has to be some connection, but I think cloudninja's version gives a strong enough connection although the other version is of course, very possible.

[cloudninja]

Originally Posted by tripperazn

To go along with cloudninja's theory, Shin's mom says, "You're on her side too, aren't you?" Implying that the dad also supports Hiromi. Shin's dad is also caught saying that Hiromi is their daughter now too, just like how Shin is their son. It's strange to accept someone else's kid so easily, isn't it? Unless there is indeed a connection.

Theory below was based on first 5 episodes. Episode 6 had a revelation that changes things but still did'nt explain the behavior of the mother towards the father, the lack of noticeable hostility. I was looking for signs of aggression between the parents to indicate a past affair.

Spoiler for somewhat lengthy discussion on some of my thoughts on the Nakagami family dynamics and how it relates to the mother based on first 5 episodes. Part theory, part explanation.:

Let's look at why Shinichiro's mother says "You're on her side too, aren't you?" to Shinichiro. This is at 4:17 in episode 1. Basically his mother asked where Hiromi was and Shinichiro replied that she was still working on the accounts. His mother then complained that she would'nt be able to clear the table unless Hiromi finishes soon, probably meaning she has to wait for Hiromi to show up and eat later before clearing the table. All Shinichiro did was defend Hiromi by saying "You should'nt be saying that. She's helping with the household work". It's at that point that Shinichiro's mother says "You're on her side too, aren't you?" to Shinichiro. It appears to me that Shin's mother is making petty complaints even though Hiromi is helping out so why would'nt Shin and his father defend Hiromi if this is his mother's attitude towards Hiromi. It would look bad in my eyes if they did'nt defend Hiromi against the unreasonable attitude and petty complaints of Shin's mother as it would be natural for any decent person to want to defend someone against unfair treatment. All it shows is that Shin's mother has a grudge against Hiromi and both Shinichiro and his father are supporting her against the mother's harassing behavior.

As for any suspicion of Shinichiro's father also being the father of Hiromi the key is the behavior of Shin's mother. We see friction between her and Shinichiro over his interest in being a picture book writer. We also see her harass Hiromi. Yet I don't remember seeing any problems between her and Shin's father. That's extremely curious. If she knew or even suspected that he had an affair with Hiromi's mother could you imagine how ballistic she would be? With her personality I can't imagine her being so quiet towards her husband. Instead she would at least display a bad attitude towards him and more than likely be antagonistic, looking for excuses to get into arguments and we should have seen something spill out for us to see. Why would she confine her hate to only Hiromi? By being spiteful to Hiromi yet not showing anything of that sort against her husband it points to her hatred being confined to Hiromi and her parents. Which further favors the theory that she was in love with Hiromi's father and despised her mother for getting him while weakening the theory of Shin's father also being the father of Hiromi.

Shin's father says "Hiromi is our child too now. Just like Shinichiro." The reply of Shin's mother is "She's not my child". All it really means is that she won't accept Hiromi as a daughter. Her intense dislike of Hiromi is what prompts the fierce denial. The expression on Shin's father at her response actually looks to be on the angry side, as if he was angry at her because of her selfishness and vindictiveness. If he was Hiromi's father I would instead expect a guilty or ashamed look on his face after his wife's refusal of Hiromi.

Shin's father appears to be pretty much the opposite of his wife. Where she is high spirited and selfish, he is quiet and appears to be the supportive type. He told his wife that she should not have opened Shin's letter without permission. He did'nt press Shin on taking over the brewery like his wife seems to have wanted to do. He later appears to offer some support to Shin by asking how his picture book was coming along and that he should show it to him next time. He asked his son about his high school application yet did'nt press when Shin said he was undecided. He just strikes me as a good guy and it appears that the writers have so far portrayed him as a variation of the strong and supportive silent type. So it's not as much a stretch to imagine him wanting to extend support to Hiromi by asking his wife to treat her as their daughter as it would be coming from almost any other type of character. She is the daughter of his best friend and has no close relatives willing to take her in after her parents' deaths.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to throw in some of my thoughts on what I've observed about the dynamics within the Nakagami family unit and how it might reveal clues about what's really going on. The lack of aggression and friction shown between Shin's mother and father is the thing that stands out to me because I would have expected to have seen some serious fireworks by now if she knew or even suspected him of having an affair, especially if Hiromi is the daily reminder of that affair. Shin's father is the quiet type but Shin's mother seems to have no problems showing her feelings about something she does'nt like so we should have seen signs of hostility on her part against her husband if he cheated on her but we don't. Things could change if they suddenly reveal new information but this is based on what I've seen in the first 5 episodes released so far.

[jaisrh]

Originally Posted by cloudninja

Spoiler for somewhat lengthy discussion on some of my thoughts on the Nakagami family dynamics and how it relates to the mother based on first 5 episodes. Part theory, part explanation.:

Let's look at why Shinichiro's mother says "You're on her side too, aren't you?" to Shinichiro. This is at 4:17 in episode 1. Basically his mother asked where Hiromi was and Shinichiro replied that she was still working on the accounts. His mother then complained that she would'nt be able to clear the table unless Hiromi finishes soon, probably meaning she has to wait for Hiromi to show up and eat later before clearing the table. All Shinichiro did was defend Hiromi by saying "You should'nt be saying that. She's helping with the household work". It's at that point that Shinichiro's mother says "You're on her side too, aren't you?" to Shinichiro. It appears to me that Shin's mother is making petty complaints even though Hiromi is helping out so why would'nt Shin and his father defend Hiromi if this is his mother's attitude towards Hiromi. It would look bad in my eyes if they did'nt defend Hiromi against the unreasonable attitude and petty complaints of Shin's mother as it would be natural for any decent person to want to defend someone against unfair treatment. All it shows is that Shin's mother has a grudge against Hiromi and both Shinichiro and his father are supporting her against the mother's harassing behavior.

As for any suspicion of Shinichiro's father also being the father of Hiromi the key is the behavior of Shin's mother. We see friction between her and Shinichiro over his interest in being a picture book writer. We also see her harass Hiromi. Yet I don't remember seeing any problems between her and Shin's father. That's extremely curious. If she knew or even suspected that he had an affair with Hiromi's mother could you imagine how ballistic she would be? With her personality I can't imagine her being so quiet towards her husband. Instead she would at least display a bad attitude towards him and more than likely be antagonistic, looking for excuses to get into arguments and we should have seen something spill out for us to see. Why would she confine her hate to only Hiromi? By being spiteful to Hiromi yet not showing anything of that sort against her husband it points to her hatred being confined to Hiromi and her parents. Which further favors the theory that she was in love with Hiromi's father and despised her mother for getting him while weakening the theory of Shin's father also being the father of Hiromi.

Shin's father says "Hiromi is our child too now. Just like Shinichiro." The reply of Shin's mother is "She's not my child". All it really means is that she won't accept Hiromi as a daughter. Her intense dislike of Hiromi is what prompts the fierce denial. The expression on Shin's father at her response actually looks to be on the angry side, as if he was angry at her because of her selfishness and vindictiveness. If he was Hiromi's father I would instead expect a guilty or ashamed look on his face after his wife's refusal of Hiromi.

Shin's father appears to be pretty much the opposite of his wife. Where she is high spirited and selfish, he is quiet and appears to be the supportive type. He told his wife that she should not have opened Shin's letter without permission. He did'nt press Shin on taking over the brewery like his wife seems to have wanted to do. He later appears to offer some support to Shin by asking how his picture book was coming along and that he should show it to him next time. He asked his son about his high school application yet did'nt press when Shin said he was undecided. He just strikes me as a good guy and it appears that the writers have so far portrayed him as a variation of the strong and supportive silent type. So it's not as much a stretch to imagine him wanting to extend support to Hiromi by asking his wife to treat her as their daughter as it would be coming from almost any other type of character. She is the daughter of his best friend and has no close relatives willing to take her in after her parents' deaths.

Sorry for the long post but I wanted to throw in some of my thoughts on what I've observed about the dynamics within the Nakagami family unit and how it might reveal clues about what's really going on. The lack of aggression and friction shown between Shin's mother and father is the thing that stands out to me because I would have expected to have seen some serious fireworks by now if she knew or even suspected him of having an affair, especially if Hiromi is the daily reminder of that affair. Shin's father is the quiet type but Shin's mother seems to have no problems showing her feelings about something she does'nt like so we should have seen signs of hostility on her part against her husband if he cheated on her but we don't. Things could change if they suddenly reveal new information but this is based on what I've seen in the first 5 episodes released so far.

Nice post despite its length. Some good analysis and insight there that helped me see a few things I did'nt notice before.

Spoiler:

I agree that the lack of apparent hostility between Shin's mother and father strongly points in favor to the theory that her hate against Hiromi has little if anything to do with her husband. So that makes it much less likely that he had an affair with Hiromi's mother and lends credence to the other alternative theories. She does'nt appear to be the forgiving type.

[Supah Em]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

I like cloudninja's version because it doesn't immediately jump to incest like it would make the anime more interesting or something. And to tripperazn, I agree that there has to be some connection, but I think cloudninja's version gives a strong enough connection although the other version is of course, very possible.

yes. The events that are happening may lead us to a conclusion that is an incestous one, but then again, this may be another curve ball by the staff to throw us off on what the real deal is.

This actually reminds me of myself; yourself

Spoiler for myself;yourself:

although the initial presumption about the series may lead to and incestous one about two certain characters there, it could be interpreted in another way as only hints were given and not solid evidences.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Now that we have a clearer idea of why the Shinmother is reacting as she is, after episode 6, can we forgive her a bit more? She is not reacting well to the situation, but it is a terrible situation to have to deal with.

To her, Hiromi is a living embodiment of her own failure, rejection, and shame, a constant reminder of her husband's unfaithfulness to her. And her husband demands that she treat Hiromi as her own. That would be nice, but it isn't so easy.

In any case, Takahashi Rieko is doing a great job with the character. I've posted a bit about Takahashi-san over in the voice-acting thread.

[DeotoxSlayer]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Now that we have a clearer idea of why the Shinmother is reacting as she is, after episode 6, can we forgive her a bit more? She is not reacting well to the situation, but it is a terrible situation to have to deal with.

To her, Hiromi is a living embodiment of her own failure, rejection, and shame, a constant reminder of her husband's unfaithfulness to her. And her husband demands that she treat Hiromi as her own. That would be nice, but it isn't so easy.

In any case, Takahashi Rieko is doing a great job with the character. I've posted a bit about Takahashi-san over in the voice-acting thread.

I feel sorry for the mother I originally felt kind of angry because of the way that she treated Hiromi, but after finding out the reason why she hates Hiromi. I can't really say I hate her, I still don't think that way she treats Hiromi is fair because Hiromi had nothing to do with the affair, but I can't really say it's all her fault, a lot off people might say they'd act differently if they were in her situation, but the truth of the matter is most people would probably act similar to her, though maybe be to a simpler extent.

[DanielSong39]

After seeing Hiromi weave her magic in the past episodes, Shin's mother is starting to become increasingly sympathetic... it may have been a self-fulfilling prophecy, but Hiromi is surely living up to her mother's legacy...

If it turns out that Shin's father was lying about the whole affair I may even become one of her fans.

[Whitemoon648]

You know what would be truely amusing ? Shinchi actually isnt their real son , and Hiromi is. So this will make them not real sibling. I think based on her holding her purse hard there is something she isnt actually telling them. Or maybe only part of their story was wrong. Maybe actaully Hiromi is their kid. I mean she mentioned something about her wife being Hiromi's dad right? maybe She herself is her mother.

[w00tness]

Actually regarding the purse scene.. Notice that it is in response to Hiromi asing if it was a lie. I think she is gripping it because she has to admit that she told Hiromi a lie out of spite, and people dont usually like admitting that they were spiteful, even to themselves. Maybe she felt ashamed at her actions thus far, thats how I see it.

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by w00tness

Actually regarding the purse scene.. Notice that it is in response to Hiromi asing if it was a lie. I think she is gripping it because she has to admit that she told Hiromi a lie out of spite, and people dont usually like admitting that they were spiteful, even to themselves. Maybe she felt ashamed at her actions thus far, thats how I see it.

I felt that it was more that she could see Hiromi realizing that it was a lie and so Shin was no longer off-limits for her, and therefore Shin's mother gripped her purse in fear of losing her son to her enemy's daughter. I think that's her greatest fear, and it was to avoid that that she told the lie in the first place. I still wonder just how much of a lie it was, and what bit of truth underlay it.

[FuzzyWuzzy]

She is hot.
I can see it in a time skip, with her hair down.
With nice clothes and sexy dress.
Mmmm!

[TinyRedLeaf]

^

She isn't an "oba-san" yet, but the thought of Shinichiro's mother as a milf made me laugh out loud.

[cloudninja]

Since she looks very different with makeup and with her hair done in a different style I'm not surprised that a few guys thought that Kanae could look "hot". Definitely looks different compared to the pic at the top of the page that shows her having a mean look.