AnimeSuki Forums

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-09-01, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImperialFlameGod8190

Chaos its a massive case of to each his own im not gonna argue further

Fine to each his own, though I have to wonder what does it mean if one judge base solely on someone's physical appearance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

The problem with the prevalence of Nene, Goemon, Ichiyo (not Hanbei 14, but drawn like 9-10) compared to Nobuna, Kutsuie, Mitsuhide is that the former group has no backstory, act as action devices. Their characters are reduced to moe additions without any real personality except pumping Saru's harem count. That's not always the case with lolis, there are many examples that they act (occasionally are) older, but not in this anime...

Anyway, maybe 2-3 good (story-wise) episodes raised my expectations into regarding this anime subject to non-LULZ criticism

I don't get it, why the mentality of segregating characters base on their age and physical appearance? Most of the cast shown so far don't have backstory exposed, save for Nobuna and very recently Mitsuhide. So why is that an issue?

And if you say they only serve as an 'action device', why not include Katsuie and Nagahide? And what does 'real' personality even mean? Is there a 'fake' personality

? Are the more physically mature girls not moe enough?

AmeNoJaku · 2012-09-01, 23:44

I did not include Katsuie because her character was integral in the first episode, less so after the loli invasion. Nagahide, I did not mention because she is part of the loli preblem, for the same reason I made an exception for Hanbei, the episode she was introduced was quite interesting, but then begun looking and acting 5 years younger.

Until now only Saru, Nobuna, Mitsuhide, Katsuie, Dousan, Yoshitatsu, and to a lesser extent Hanbei and Asai feel like real character (backstory, motivation, development, personality), the rest of the cast either is pure ecchi/moe fodder or plot device.

Chaos2Frozen · 2012-09-02, 01:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

I did not include Katsuie because her character was integral in the first episode, less so after the loli invasion. Nagahide, I did not mention because she is part of the loli preblem, for the same reason I made an exception for Hanbei, the episode she was introduced was quite interesting, but then begun looking and acting 5 years younger.

Until now only Saru, Nobuna, Mitsuhide, Katsuie, Dousan, Yoshitatsu, and to a lesser extent Hanbei and Asai feel like real character (backstory, motivation, development, personality), the rest of the cast either is pure ecchi/moe fodder or plot device.

Are you telling me you don't think Nagahide, Goemon and Inuchiyo have personalities even after watching 8 episodes? Surely you must have caught on to something by the third episode, latest. As for motivation- pretty much most of the cast are fiercely loyal to either Nobuna or Saru or both and would do anything for them to achieve their dreams- Nagahide, Goemon and Inochiyo are no exception. And they all have proven it many times. If you can accept Katsuie and Saru's loyalty, why not the others?

I honestly haven't seen much backstory save for Nobuna and Mitsuhide (recent), but that's the benefit of having a series base on real historical characters- there's not much else needed to be told if your target audience already know what to expect. Though in this case, the audience knows the past and the very likely future of those characters.

To sum it up; while it may not be your 'full package', I can't in good faith think of them as 'fake characters'.... Side characters maybe, but doesn't make them any less 'real' than Sagara and Nobuna.

felix · 2012-09-02, 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I don't get it, why the mentality of segregating characters base on their age and physical appearance? Most of the cast shown so far don't have backstory exposed, save for Nobuna and very recently Mitsuhide. So why is that an issue?

They're too young to have a backstory to begin with. At least the older characters can have a backstory. Secondly, because they're "children" they have set in stone personalities, and the "do no wrong" attitude preset. There's no point to their dialog since it's never going to be anything beyond fluff and sugar. When it's pushed into "adult-like" behaviour the fact they're children just rubs me the wrong way, like this is some fanservice for pedos (ie. the whole "but they're mature" crap). So it's a lose-lose situations either way when they become "serious business" in the show.

AmeNoJaku · 2012-09-02, 07:03

Felix covered me.

Also I am not supporting that's wrong in any way to like the lolis, just stated why I and others don't in this anime.

felix · 2012-09-02, 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmeNoJaku

Also I am not supporting that's wrong in any way to like the lolis, just stated why I and others don't in this anime.

(same for me)

Master Assassin · 2012-09-02, 11:52

Enough prattle; episode 9.

Spoiler for Not going to say much:

EDIT: And it's out now.

EDIT 2: Right.

Spoiler for Breakdown of episode as I watch:

Now, if you will excuse me for this... (hopefully

)

Midonin · 2012-09-02, 12:31

Sengoku (Past) 09 - The History That Wasn't Written

So Yoshiharu is becoming acutely aware of the fact that he's rewriting the history books, and that Honnoji is coming if he doesn't do anything about it. Awareness is the first step, but there's no guarantee. I'm surprised his cell phone still has some charge left in it after all this while; once again, a Zenjibou is foiled by circumstances they don't quite understand.

The battle between Hisahide and Mitushide was the most interesting part of the episode. When Hisahide started doing that boob-touch, and then followed it up with "I'm going to kill you", that was a little creepy. The appearance of the reinforcements afterwards was pretty heartwarming. And bouncy. But the highlight of the scene was Bontenmaru/Masamune and her 中二病ness. That's the kind of heroism I like to see - showy.

I think next week has something to do with hot springs, but the title suggests it's not all fun and fanservice.

MisaoFan · 2012-09-02, 12:38

Spoiler for Episode 9:

Mephos · 2012-09-02, 12:43

Holy crap this episode was tense but it resolved itself nicely.

Sakanaka Shouko · 2012-09-02, 13:55

Good to see Akechi finally realizing why what she did was wrong and apologizing. Her fight with Hisahide was pretty intense. Yoshimoto was cute as always and it was nice to see Bontenmaru again.

I'm looking forward to the next episode, looks like there will be even more action than today's episode.

ReaperxKingx · 2012-09-02, 14:25

Ah, we see how dangerous deception in war can be. Excellent episode, we got some back story, Drama, and action. Subtle fan service was included, mix with something well off. Can't wait for the next episode, which happened to be hot springs.

ookamigirl · 2012-09-02, 14:26

They sure were enjoying their rainy day ^^
Especially now that things are going Nobuna's way.
Well, that seemed to be subjected to change.
On top of that Yoshiharu got himself kidnapped.
Luckily things turned out rather well considering the situation.

ReaperxKingx · 2012-09-02, 14:32

Does anyone feel that Nobuna's mother is kind of..............(can't find a elegant and gentle way of saying it) because she saved Owari Clan and the people yet her mother is worried about how she dresses when she comes to see her.

Kyuu · 2012-09-02, 15:02

Alright. Nobuna will be more than ready for some Monkey babies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx

Ah, we see how dangerous deception in war can be.

Be out of position, and consider yourself screwed. Oh the many times this had happened in my Starcraft games...

ReaperxKingx · 2012-09-02, 15:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyuu

Alright. Nobuna will be more than ready for some Monkey babies.

Be out of position, and consider yourself screwed. Oh the many times this had happened in my Starcraft games...

Ah, I do too, that is why I stick to First Person Shooters.

Back to topic, did they have rifle scopes back then in the Sengoku Era?

Sumeragi · 2012-09-02, 15:31

Experimental, yes. Effective? In the mid 19th century.

Anh_Minh · 2012-09-02, 15:33

... Did they even have rifles? (with, well, rifling, I mean.)

Quick look at Wikipedia: that scope's a century early. And let's not think about the geography.

ReaperxKingx · 2012-09-02, 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

... Did they even have rifles? (with, well, rifling, I mean.)

Quick look at Wikipedia: that scope's a century early. And let's not think about the geography.

Well some people do consider the matchlock as the first rifles, depends who you ask.

blakstealth · 2012-09-02, 18:25

Imagawa's gonna be a fine figureh- I mean shogun. aw mah gawd, she's so adorable~

2012-09-02, 11:52	Link #1147
Master Assassin Portable Dude Mk. II Artist Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: All ghillied up spying on someone ~2,000 yards away using telescope sights. Age: 35	Enough prattle; episode 9. Spoiler for Not going to say much: Conflict's really drilling into this series by this episode. Matsunaga being evil, and manipulating Juubei-chan. Monkey got into a pinch, but managed to get himself free. ... And looks like I'm going to have another week of waiting to see what's in the PV, looks interesting EDIT: And it's out now. EDIT 2: Right. Spoiler for Breakdown of episode as I watch: - Dem girls are not satisfied with Juubei-chan and are rather distraught by the fact she won by a cheating that wasn't instigated by her own will at all, and I get Yoshiharu's sentiment regarding this, but this is the Sengoku era where the retribution for being a disgrace equals death - Yoshiharu-kun, you're right about Honnouji, but you have to be careful of your own steps as well - Original!Hideyoshi was the one who pursued Original!Mitsuhide for that, remember, and you're in Hideyoshi's place man - That aside, Dimwit Shogun Imagawa? Though, her comedic antics were cut rather short by the two stuff above... - Of course, Mitsuhide is still blurred by the vision for glory, and she can't quite understand why she got shunned by the one lord she respects so much. Cue life lessons from the Good!Soukyuu. - It's hard when you work so hard for your goals, and succeed, only to not get recognized by your patri/matriarch for that... - When you hear Takeda and Uesugi make peace and you're not in their league, you know things are going bad for you. In full force. - Of course, cue OH CRAP! by Sagara-uji. And we see Sagara getting more mindwrecked about how things he have done are starting to change the events that happened in history as he knew. Butterfly effect consequences. - And here's the Miyoshi conspirators talking... Oh, shut it you bad guys, we know you guys will go down later, but thanks for the adrenaline pump. - Is Hikaru Genji the Sengoku buzzword for lolicons? - Keep moving man, keep moving! You know you have to do something, Sagara-uji! - SAGARA-UJI WAS CAPTURED! And guess what when that news gets to Lord Nobuna... - ... Wow, this man must have had a sufficiently skilled gunsmith to make him a scoped matchlock rifle. That's right, scoped. - Sugitani Zenjuurou. Your name will be... not remembered. - ... Yeah, he really owns the most advanced matchlock rifle I've seen for this series yet. At the same time, Matsunaga is now facing Mitsuhide. - ... We really can count on Madhouse for battle scenes can we? - Summoning oppai lovers: Your special menu today is on Matsunaga Hisahide. - Oi! I don't care if you're a master at that, Matsunaga! Get the butterflies off or I'll just get your oppai off! - The traditional method of getting back to your senses - cause some pain on yourself? - No no, first you should say USO DA! first Juubei-chan, then whack her while she's still babbling, then think about it later. - And the awesome music plays. Everything saved by a smartphone! - I love it when things get screwed for villains in their face. But villains are quite a persistent bunch, aren't they? - ... Saru's getting injured in the same spot on his same arm again it seems... Eh? Eh? A few frames later it's disappeared! - Oi, dude, "the image of Kiyomizu temple burning, and how Nobuna appeared?" Isn't that a dangerous line somehow? - Some people want to watch the world burn... Well that's fine, I want to watch those people getting burned! - BONTENMARU!!! This episode will need another "PUT YA GUNS ON" edit! And I know what's going to happen after this episode; MORE LOVE (from you guys). - Wow, Frois-san's... she has to be Katsuie's contest in most ridiculous boob physics of the Sengoku Era. - Aree~e? You're not going to quickly pull a Heel Face Turn right now are you, Matsunaga? ... Okay that was quick, but I'm not going to take that surrender at face value... - You have a Nobuna/Yoshiharu shipper of the highest order from the Imperial Court itself now, dude! Guess the butterfly effect wasn't all bad after all. ... It certainly is embarassing when the same person mentioned exposes your pink secrets, Saru-kun. - PV: Two things - one fun, the other... too much tears. Fun thing: Whatever Nobusumi and... who's that figure could be doing right now? But that'll be for next week. Now, if you will excuse me for this... (hopefully ) __________________ I like to run portable on my dude, so I ran while running runs in my portably portable, dude-like dude. --- This line over here is a placeholder. ---- Last edited by Master Assassin; 2012-09-02 at 13:20.

2012-09-02, 13:55	Link #1151
Sakanaka Shouko Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2012	Good to see Akechi finally realizing why what she did was wrong and apologizing. Her fight with Hisahide was pretty intense. Yoshimoto was cute as always and it was nice to see Bontenmaru again. I'm looking forward to the next episode, looks like there will be even more action than today's episode. __________________

2012-09-02, 14:26	Link #1153
ookamigirl Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	They sure were enjoying their rainy day ^^ Especially now that things are going Nobuna's way. Well, that seemed to be subjected to change. On top of that Yoshiharu got himself kidnapped. Luckily things turned out rather well considering the situation. __________________ My Blog --> ookami

2012-09-01, 23:44	Link #1142
AmeNoJaku Franco's Phalanx is next! Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Little England, Europe and Asia	I did not include Katsuie because her character was integral in the first episode, less so after the loli invasion. Nagahide, I did not mention because she is part of the loli preblem, for the same reason I made an exception for Hanbei, the episode she was introduced was quite interesting, but then begun looking and acting 5 years younger. Until now only Saru, Nobuna, Mitsuhide, Katsuie, Dousan, Yoshitatsu, and to a lesser extent Hanbei and Asai feel like real character (backstory, motivation, development, personality), the rest of the cast either is pure ecchi/moe fodder or plot device.

2012-09-02, 07:03	Link #1145
AmeNoJaku Franco's Phalanx is next! Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Little England, Europe and Asia	Felix covered me. Also I am not supporting that's wrong in any way to like the lolis, just stated why I and others don't in this anime.

2012-09-02, 12:31	Link #1148
Midonin Last Engage Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Florida	Sengoku (Past) 09 - The History That Wasn't Written So Yoshiharu is becoming acutely aware of the fact that he's rewriting the history books, and that Honnoji is coming if he doesn't do anything about it. Awareness is the first step, but there's no guarantee. I'm surprised his cell phone still has some charge left in it after all this while; once again, a Zenjibou is foiled by circumstances they don't quite understand. The battle between Hisahide and Mitushide was the most interesting part of the episode. When Hisahide started doing that boob-touch, and then followed it up with "I'm going to kill you", that was a little creepy. The appearance of the reinforcements afterwards was pretty heartwarming. And bouncy. But the highlight of the scene was Bontenmaru/Masamune and her 中二病ness. That's the kind of heroism I like to see - showy. I think next week has something to do with hot springs, but the title suggests it's not all fun and fanservice.

2012-09-02, 12:43	Link #1150
Mephos Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Iowa	Holy crap this episode was tense but it resolved itself nicely.

2012-09-02, 14:25	Link #1152
ReaperxKingx Emperor of the Expected Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Florida	Ah, we see how dangerous deception in war can be. Excellent episode, we got some back story, Drama, and action. Subtle fan service was included, mix with something well off. Can't wait for the next episode, which happened to be hot springs.

2012-09-02, 14:32	Link #1154
ReaperxKingx Emperor of the Expected Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Florida	Does anyone feel that Nobuna's mother is kind of..............(can't find a elegant and gentle way of saying it) because she saved Owari Clan and the people yet her mother is worried about how she dresses when she comes to see her.

2012-09-02, 15:31	Link #1157
Sumeragi Banned Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Dai Korai Teikoku	Experimental, yes. Effective? In the mid 19th century.

2012-09-02, 15:33	Link #1158
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	... Did they even have rifles? (with, well, rifling, I mean.) Quick look at Wikipedia: that scope's a century early. And let's not think about the geography.

2012-09-02, 18:25	Link #1160
blakstealth Les Pays Bass Join Date: Jun 2011	Imagawa's gonna be a fine figureh- I mean shogun. aw mah gawd, she's so adorable~