Character Discussion - Kallen

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by KrimzonStriker

Oh c'mon, he's far from ideal, just look at how she reacts to him as Lelouch. Now she can see all his flaws as well, and you know what, that's a good thing, it's what builds a relationship

you misunderstand.

at this point, Zero is an ideal, a set of principles that Kallen has decided in her head. That guy in the Zero costume? He's just Lelouch, and whenever he doesn't act "like Zero would", he's is indeed just Lelouch. But when he acts out the ideals in Kallen's head, when he's a conduit for that concept, then Lelouch can be Zero. That's where things stand now.

Which is why Kallen still has some work to do, figuring out where exactly Lelouch stands in her world other than as the avatar for Zero.

Originally Posted by Var

Well, before anything, where did this come from? I suppose it is possible my ears suck. I'll have to relisten to the episode. Lest this is official, at which point I'll retract my statement.

Like I said, from the closed captions, that the television station gets along with the anime itself from the studio. plenty of people post them all over wikis or anime blogs, among other places.

[metronome]

Originally Posted by evil|plushie

I guess she realised that she was being way too overemotional in S1 and that she had screwed up majorly.

she should realize it sooner:P not 1 year hahaha

[Archaic]

Originally Posted by ashlay

shitau is nowhere to be seen. you misheard (従わせて perhaps?). I thought you were just talking about her saying she believes in Zero at the end. 0_o

I had 慕う pegged as the dictionary form of what was said there (which should conjunct to 慕わせて in that context, if I remember correctly). If the closed captions from the original broadcast disagree though, then it's my error.

[evil|plushie]

Well, it may have taken several months before they could perfectly rearrange everything so that they could successfully free Zero. Plus I think C.C was the one doing the plotting anyway

[Fenrir_valindri]

She probably wanted to confirm for herself whether she had been fighting for Zero because she wanted to, or if she was fighting for him because she was being forced to.

Having a year to think it over she decided she would confront him directly, and take the risk that he was simply using her as a pawn.

And Lelouch was the one who screwed the entire battle-plan at the end of season 1, not Karen.

He did abandon them in the middle of the biggest and most decisive battle that the Order had yet faced.

Not to mention "superman" Suzuku showing up just in time to screw over everyone.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Archaic

I had 慕う pegged as the dictionary form of what was said there (which should conjunct to 慕わせて in that context, if I remember correctly). If the closed captions from the original broadcast disagree though, then it's my error.

Well, you're not the only one who made the mistake then.

[evil|plushie]

I'd agree that Lulu screwed over the entire battle-plan partially. Unfortunately, he didn't realise one thing. The OoTBK is USELESS without him apparently. But he also had to leave the battlefield for one simple reason. Nanali. That was his most impt reason for fighting as it was. It wasn't the liberation of Japan or even to get back at Britainnia. While he could have stayed, he wouldn't have been the same. In fact, him leaving for Nanali sets him apart from other cold, manipulative schemers *coughLightcough* because it proves that he still holds true to his original values.

However, that can not be said to hold true for Kallen. She knew the OoTBK was doing badly without Zero, that they wanted Zero back and that Ougi was down. By the time she left, it was kinda obvious that if they wanted to win, the OoTBK needed Zero. But yet, she chose to desert Zero because Suzaku messed with her mind and because he was Lelouch and not the person she idealized him to be. So basically, Kallen screwed up bad. Lelouch screwed up but she had a chance to stop him and set things right but she didn't, because she was having an 'emotional fit'.

[hanseo]

she was being way too overemotional in S1

[Var]

Originally Posted by ashlay

Like I said, from the closed captions, that the television station gets along with the anime itself from the studio. plenty of people post them all over wikis or anime blogs, among other places.

Alright then, it was my mistake.

[KrimzonStriker]

i hope Suzaku destroys kallen this would be a good plot twist

If I had a Geass and we were face to face... oh the pain I'd bring you for posting such irrelevant spam

[Aquaman OS]

Even if Kallen killed Suzaku from behind Lelouch still wasn't going back til he recovered Nunally anyway. By then it would have been far too late. Lelouch lost them the battle when he tried to have his cake and eat it too.

[metronome]

and one thing that's pretty weird
instead of asking why he lied to her about her identity and geass power, she should have asked why he left during big battle first. ( I know he said that he needs to save nanally in front of her, but such an explanation doesn't seem to be enough I think. )

[metronome]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Even if Kallen killed Suzaku from behind Lelouch still wasn't going back til he recovered Nunally anyway. By then it would have been far too late. Lelouch lost them the battle when he tried to have his cake and eat it too.

But it will help lelouch find his sister faster and increase the chance to make a come back in the battle or next, not 1 year after zero got mind wiped, suzaku is still alive, and not only that more enemies know his true identity, and not after area 11 is demoted to even worse status

[ashlay]

Originally Posted by metronome

and one thing that's pretty weird
instead of asking why he lied to her about her identity and geass power, she should have asked why he left during big battle first.

Nunnally. duh.

Kallen's not deaf.

[metronome]

Originally Posted by ashlay

Nunnally. duh.

Kallen's not deaf.

it is edited
I know she heard that, but the problem is that you will think that "hell, he leaves the battle just because her sister is kidnapped?"
I dont think she even know that the reason lelouch does rebellion is because to create the best world for his sister when her eyes are opened; same like her before that she wanted to create a better world for her mother

what I mean is, I think she needs to know why saving her sister is more important than winning the battle rather than his hiding his identity and power from her.

[Fenrir_valindri]

It wasn't exactly like Lelouch was portraying himself as misunderstood at the time. He basically said he was a manipulative bastard whose sole purpose was to become the king of the world at the end of season 1, and he didn't give a damn about Japan beyond it being useful.

To Kallen's ears this must have sounded like a complete betrayal of how Zero had portrayed himself, he was definitely no "Ally of Justice" at that time, and hence Kallen's confusion. You can't expect a 17-18 year old girl to coldly and logically decide that she should still help someone who basically admitted all of Japan was his chessboard. (Even if that wasn't how he really felt, it is what he said)

I'm semi-surprised that Kallen didn't shoot him in that situation.

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Even if Kallen killed Suzaku from behind Lelouch still wasn't going back til he recovered Nunally anyway. By then it would have been far too late. Lelouch lost them the battle when he tried to have his cake and eat it too.

I disagree with this point simply because we don't know how long the battle at s1 lasted. Considering it was a final battle in which most of the OoTBK was crushed decisively and their members captured, it probably went on for a while. It's possible that Lelouch would have still made it back in time if Kallen had actually bothered helping him instead of running away. While he may not have been able to pull off a victory, he might still have been able to salvage what was left of the situation and most of their troops.

[evil|plushie]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

It wasn't exactly like Lelouch was portraying himself as misunderstood at the time. He basically said he was a manipulative bastard whose sole purpose was to become the king of the world at the end of season 1, and he didn't give a damn about Japan beyond it being useful.

To Kallen's ears this must have sounded like a complete betrayal of how Zero had portrayed himself, he was definitely no "Ally of Justice" at that time, and hence Kallen's confusion. You can't expect a 17-18 year old girl to coldly and logically decide that she should still help someone who basically admitted all of Japan was his chessboard. (Even if that wasn't how he really felt, it is what he said)

I can't expect a 17/18 yr old fangirl to coldly and logically admit that. But I do expect someone who's part of a freedom fighting army to realise that. And I think that's where we differ. I don't like the fact that Kallens fangirlism basically made her abandon Zero because he was different from what she expected.

And yes, Lelouch wasn't making himself out to be a saint either. Although he didn't say so much he was a manipulative bastard so much as that both he and japan were achieving their own goals and what of it.

[Aquaman OS]

Originally Posted by Fenrir_valindri

It wasn't exactly like Lelouch was portraying himself as misunderstood, he basically said he was a manipulative bastard whose sole purpose was to become the king of the world at the end of season 1, and he didn't give a damn about Japan beyond it being useful.

There you go. That's why the situation ended up as it did. If he'd said something else he might have been able to at least reason with Suzaku or inspire Kallen to help him. Instead it just covinced Suzaku that his suspisions about how evil and dangerous Lelouch is was correct, and told Kallen that she had been betrayed.

Suzaku said it himself Lelouch was just using her. What else should she think otherwise since Lelouch said the same thing?

Really people are just pissed that Lelouch lost and are throwing the blame at everyone they can (Kallen, Suzaku, etc) but its his own fault for saying the stuff that he did. If he'd been straight with people the situation could have been different.(starting with Nunally, he could have had her heavily guarded in the room if the order knew she was important but he didn't tell them) Even he knows that since he told Kallen the truth for once.

[evil|plushie]

Using her to do what? Using her to liberate Japan for his own goals? In the end, isn't that what Kallen herself wants? A liberated Japan?

Really, people are are just pissed that suddenly other people are questioning Kallens own character and conduct at the end of season 1 and are throwing the blame towards Suzaku for being there and being godhax and Lelouch for not admitting his true desires and feelings. But the fact of the matter is, Kallen is a soldier. She's not supposed to be a fangirl and if she had actually thought with her brain instead of her emotions at the end of s1, Japan probably would have been liberated already.