2006-10-10, 01:08 | Link #2101 | |||
nani ni tatoemu
Join Date: Sep 2006
|
Quote:
Quote:
And it's not all about Simoun vs SP for me. Like I said before, I'm far from being a hardcore fan of SP. I just don't see why it's necessary to build up an elitist atmosphere around a show. Quote:
|
|||
2006-10-10, 05:05 | Link #2102 | |
CA
|
Quote:
You mentioned about them before but it was no more than "Simoun pretends to have A,B and C," was it? It must be ridiculous to assert that everyone should enjoy or think highly of the show as much as we do, as you said. But I also see another self-centered absolutism in your strong implication like"Simoun has no more than I see and that's why it's unpopular but these guys here are inventing what they want to see." You are not at all agreeing to FPB's comment you quoted as if you agreed to it, when it comes to Simoun. If you agree to it, I urge you to allow us to think as we want whether you want to call our thoughts piece of shit or not. Don't be sarcastic or overreact to small misconceptions by aggrandizing them as if they represent the general opinions here. That's the only way you prove that you really sympathize with the idea in the comment. Last edited by warainagara; 2006-10-10 at 05:20. |
|
2006-10-10, 06:56 | Link #2103 | |
Simoun-Fans Editor
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: UK
|
Quote:
As far as I've noticed, all yokononaka's said is that we (the devoted fans) tend naturally to read far more depth into things than others might. We see (or choose to see) depth where he(?) and others might not, because their interpretation is different. Perhaps I'm missing something, but why get upset at that? In any case, could we all keep the name-calling to a minimum, please? (It hardly helps dispel the image of an insular fan clique, does it?) |
|
2006-10-10, 07:31 | Link #2104 |
nani ni tatoemu
Join Date: Sep 2006
|
warainagara: In line with your own suggestion to not overreact to small misconceptions by aggrandizing them, would you mind not putting words in my mouth and then accusing me based on that?
Edit: Although, as far as "seeing" in particular goes, I would like to think that we're all watching the same show, so in that sense yes indeed Simoun has no more than what I see. How we interpret what we see is another issue. Since you have somehow interpreted what I've said as implying that your thoughts are a piece of ****, I think it's obvious that multiple interpretations do exist and can be extreme... In case you're interested, dismissing someone elses thinking in that manner is entirely alien to me. It's simply not something I could do, even if I tried (and I'm not trying). Last edited by yononaka; 2006-10-10 at 08:19. |
2006-10-10, 08:21 | Link #2105 | |
floofer. floof.
Join Date: Mar 2006
|
Quote:
If I may psychologize yononaka a little, it seems that what's happening is a fan who is obviously intelligent feeling insulted because of theories that those who cannot see a particular point of view are lacking in some way. I think this also happens to abstract art. One solution is to say: each to our own, and everyone's happy. However, because Simoun isn't abstract art, a more constructive and inclusive thing to do is simply to listen to one another and... wonder. Accept and appreciate the variety of perspectives available, I mean. Perhaps we will still disagree in the end, but I think the point is to have fun doing so. In this spirit, it's best to assume that everyone's intentions are good. Fans have the right to be enthusiastic, for one thing, and non-fans are naturally more rational, for another. It shows in our language. And... perhaps I'm taking too many happy pills. To drift vaguely back to the topic, I can't seem to access the radio show. Argh. Must. Try. Again. |
|
2006-10-10, 12:18 | Link #2106 | |
Dansa med oss
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 36
|
Quote:
|
|
2006-10-10, 12:43 | Link #2107 | ||
CA
|
Quote:
I've seen you are interpreting some comments from us on the basis of your hypothesis about the elitisism. Some of us defended their positions about the intelligent thing, and I think their sayings are the average idea here, which I disagree to be called eliticism. Quote:
Personally, I don't understand such a high evaluation of Shuzumiya Haruhi's Yuuts and I know the show has some adamant fans who say things disagreeable to me. But I don't mind their sayings primarily because my disliking the show naturally translate into that I don't go to a place dealing with SHnY nor read its reviews. Another reason is that I understand some degree of fanatic attitude is a common thing that could happen to any show. So for me, it's somewhat difficult to imagine someone frequenting this thread where Simoun's fans with similar ideas freely talk, although he or she doesn't seem to like the show and responding to a specific saying regularly that he or she wouldn't have to bear with a mere choice of not coming. |
||
2006-10-10, 13:54 | Link #2108 | |
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
As for "seeing what's great"/"see the depth" or whatever you want to call it - seems to me that everyone is talking about roughly the same thing, yet a lot of misunderstandings have appeared. I think it is like this - you never know what you are going to like and even less what someone else is going to like. Certain books or films have been described to me as something that would be right up my alley by people whose tastes I trust, yet I ended up being disappointed by these works. Appreciation depends on too many factors including expectations, mindset at the time of watching, similar things read/seen recently, concentration of the viewer/reader and mainly all the subtle differences in taste. So thinking that people who like Honey and Clover should almost certainly like Simoun is a bit wrong, IMO but maybe I am saying that because I don't like Honey and Clover that much. And trying to guess why these people may not like it, while an interesting theoretical question can lead to some generalization which are bound to annoy certain people. In short - it's all relative and subjective, so how about we relax a bit and discuss the issues of Simoun's liking and disliking in a more fun and less logical way. Nobody is going to be convinced to switch sides anyway. Man, I ended up writing such a moralising boring post...
__________________
|
|
2006-10-10, 16:52 | Link #2110 |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
|
Matrim's point about Honey & Clover is a good one. And about SHnY, which I can be almost as offensively in favor of as I am with Simoun. Taste varies, and it's impossible to securely predict who will like what. I'm probably just so frustrated by the fact that a show I think is one of the greatest ever has such a small viewership. And as I've said before, it makes me worry about my taste, so I get defensive. Sorry, all. (I think the apology is warranted, at least for prolonging the negative atmosphere.)
But although in general I'm certainly a cultural relativist, I can't honestly abandon my own judgment that Simoun has depths that some people just aren't seeing. It's normal. I myself can't see the greatness of Mushishi because the mushi, the protagonist, the episodic structure and most of the stories just don't engage me. On a brighter note, I have recently been jumping around the episodes looking for screencaps and have been overwhelmed with emotion and admiration again and again. Mamiina on the deck, with Neviril and the Plumbum priestesses. Rodore cutting her hair. Her lullaby. Erif's cry. Limone smiling through the green haze of the Emerald. Neviril at the hearing. Onashia with Yun. The madness of the Temple One. Mamiina among the flowers. I even found it enlightening to watch without sound. I saw beautiful things I hadn't noticed before.
__________________
|
2006-10-10, 19:23 | Link #2111 |
Samba!!
Join Date: Apr 2006
|
Although I haven't post much here, I have lurk on this thread for a long time.
There's one comment I'd like to make regarding the "unable to see" aspect of this show. Simoun is a coming-of-age story. It depicts how people make choices in their lifes, especially when they are teenagers. Because of this, I think it would have a greater appeal to people who have passed their teenage years. Being a teenager, you have to make a lot of choices, and life is getting more and more complicated by the day. People who have faced these problems and gone passed them have a better chance of relating to the characters in Simoun, because they share similar experiences. It's like they are looking back to themselves when they are teenagers. They could appreciate more and "able to see more" (so to speak) in Simoun. For viewers who are younger, they haven't experience such things, it may be more difficult for them to see the beauty of Simoun. For example, I really agree to Aeru's grandfather, when he said that as you grow up, you have less to choose from. I really can relate to it because I am experiencing the same thing. When you are a kid, you can dream to be a policeman, a doctor, a bus driver, or whatever. But as you grow up, you can only choose one. And after you choose it, it's like your path is set. You can't really go on another path, unless you make a lot of effort to do it. Anyway, this is just my opinion, and I am not looking for a fight. It's just a theory that has been going on my mind. And I am not saying you are not a grown up if you don't enjoy Simoun, or you are old, so you enjoy Simoun. I am just saying that this may be one of the factors that people may not like Simoun as much. It may also be one of the reason why this show is not as popular. Of course, I also agree with previous posters saying that people have different tastes and different levels of perceiving things. |
2006-10-11, 03:13 | Link #2112 |
nani ni tatoemu
Join Date: Sep 2006
|
Eh. I think the severity of what I'm supposedly thinking, feeling and saying has been exaggerated enough times now that I'll have to "exonerate" myself somehow But not right now for lack of time. (Also on that topic: oneplusme, I failed to thank you before, but I definitely appreciated your words.)
As for why I continue coming here to talk about a show I supposedly don't like, it's because I'm interested in why I don't like Simoun much even though I like the vast majority of the things that have been related to it by the people here. By all accounts I should like this show. And for the record, I don't have a problem with anyone liking Simoun. Even the aspects of it that I don't "see". BTW, I'm curious, is there a particular reason why people prefer to talk about me rather than to me? I don't mean to make a big deal of this, but the number of third-person references seems a little above average. |
2006-10-12, 13:56 | Link #2113 |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
|
I've received a note from someone in France whom I have been corresponding with about Simoun. She wanted me to thank everyone on AnimeSuki on behalf of French fans for having helped them appreciate the show. Here is a translation of part of her message:
...Simoun is now finished and following this anime is something I don't regret at all. I don't even regret having waited up every Monday for the raw (sometimes until 4 a.m.; impossible to sleep until at least having started the download). I think I've never seen as beautiful an ending to an anime. It was so poetic that I had a feeling of nostalgia at the end of episode 26 (tears came to my eyes, but I kept myself from crying). I'd like you thank all the people on the AnimeSuki forum who have helped French fans appreciate Simoun. Some of us follow the forum but do not post messages.... This was truly the anime of the season....
__________________
|
2006-10-12, 14:08 | Link #2114 |
Dansa med oss
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Near Cincinnati, OH, but actually in Kentucky
Age: 36
|
Aww... I feel all gooey inside now. I'd post something in French for her, but my French is practically nonexistent
It's so wonderful how something as simple as a TV show (although a great one) can provide common ground for people all over the world who would never have reason to meet otherwise. |
2006-10-12, 22:40 | Link #2115 |
気持ち悪い
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Zealand
|
Drama CD
November's Megami has some info on the upcoming drama CD in its Sybilla Fanclub column - can anyone help translate? From what I can make out, it seems to be a comedy about the characters finding work in something akin to RL. (Amazon have a colour thumbnail of the CD cover; Neviril has obviously taken to the OL look.)
And a couple of bits of DVD trivia. Compare the images on the official site to the actual covers - notice the difference? Also, I'm wondering if there's a slight encoding problem on V2. At the very end of the cast interview and promo video, just before it switches back to the menu, Media Player Classic 6.4.9.0 plays a nasty half-second buzzing sound. Then again VLC 0.8.5 doesn't do this, so maybe it's just exposing an MPC bug. EDIT: Nearly forgot, I also have another request for translation help - the Megami manga is subtitled まじかる美勇伝 Majikaru Biyūden, literally "Magical Beauty-Courage-Legend". I think I understand what Biyūden means here, but I'm blowed if I can think up a natural-sounding English translation. Any suggestions?
__________________
Last edited by Simon; 2006-10-12 at 23:16. |
2006-10-13, 18:20 | Link #2116 |
Yuuki Aoi
Join Date: Jul 2004
|
I've posted some general thoughts about Simoun in the hashihime blog. Just to make my point of view clear, I called the piece: "Simoun -- One of the Greatest Anime Ever Made." Feel free to comment here or there, if anything strikes you.
__________________
Last edited by Kaoru Chujo; 2006-10-14 at 16:27. |
2006-10-13, 18:23 | Link #2117 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Brighton, UK.
Age: 61
|
A newbie's thoughts
Hello everyone, I've been reading some of the recent discussion and thought I'd add my views on why Simoun may put some people off.
As someone who has only recently started watching it I can give an impression of the first ten episodes that's not coloured by knowing what happens later. During the first five episodes I felt inclined to drop Simoun several times; only the enthusiastic reports by people whose opinions I respect made me persist. Fortunately I started to enjoyed it consistently from episode six.. However I still think it has problems that stop me rating it as highly as most people here; and if I can see them others probably can too. (Maybe stuff will happen later in the story that will nullify some of the criticisms I'm about to make - but if someone's really bugged by what seems bad in the early episodes are they going to keep watching?) Spoiler for long rant:
Despite all that I do enjoy Simoun so it must have some good points as well! I did think it was time someone played devil's advocate, though. Quick question, is the title "Simoun" an oblique reference to the pilot and writer Saint-Exupéry? Seems to fit in a number of ways. Oh and a big thanks to the kind people who put the effort into subbing this show. |
2006-10-13, 18:39 | Link #2118 | |
CA
|
Quote:
It is super nonsensical and vociferous comedy. After the war, the next attempt of Chor Tempest is establishing a company in Tokyo. What will become of Simoun Co. set up by the girls with no working experience? And how will the girls deal with living in the metropolitan city, Tokyo? The CD including 6 eps will let us know the new attractiveness of Simoun!! Haha,,, quite inflammatory copy.... |
|
2006-10-13, 18:55 | Link #2119 | |
Senior Member
|
009-1 has good succeer of Simoun taste....
Quote:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=35756 The long 140 years continue "Cold -War" world , Mylene Hoffman who has codenamed "009-1" full-physics mechanicalized cyborg has more good mood serious anime . At first grance, many of fan-woman and guys think "Najica Blitz" or "Female James Bond who has sexal and tough style Pants and spy action anime ", but if you continue to watched, you seek important story and plot essence of "Simoun"..... Last edited by Yui from Okinawa; 2006-10-13 at 21:06. |
|
2006-10-13, 19:12 | Link #2120 | ||
Naysayer?Fanboy?Wiseacre?
Join Date: Dec 2005
|
Quote:
As for Mamiina - true, the characters who were introduced earlier could have caused the downfall of Chor tempest on their own but Mamiina's role in the story is a lot bigger than doing just that. Also, the Chor needed two new memmbers to get the optimal amoununt of twelve, so two new faces were going to be introduced anyway. I think the justification of Mamiina's "split personality" is her desire to have everything she wanted as soon as possible, after achieving her dream of being the pair of Sibylla Aurea she lsot sight of reality and thought that she could do anything. Once Neviril rejected her she assumed it was because of her lowly birth and as a result all hell broke loose. Quote:
__________________
|
||
Tags |
drama, science fiction, yuri |
|
|