AnimeSuki Forums

Sheba · 2016-07-09, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

By the way, I wonder what would that reverse of isekai be called? I agree that it sounds interesting, but I can only remember that McD maou. Yuushibu and other retiring hero type stories kind of fits as well, but they're both more comedy than anything. Which I guess is why it didn't gain as much traction, it's not as engaging as adventures into the unknown.

You know, reverse Isekai can be the perfect excuse to revive the Magical Girlfriend subgenre with titles like My Girlfriend Is An Elven Princess Who Escaped An Assassination Plot And Is Now Working In A Meido Cafe.

With That title you know who is your target audience.

Sixth · 2016-07-09, 12:37

The problem with the long title usually only relevant to volume 1.

Just like something; "I became adventure so I can meet a girl in dungeon" and the issue was resolved in volume 1 because now he had met a girl in dungeon, become friend, and go adventure together, and the volume 2-10 will about how he became a god.

DustHalls · 2016-07-10, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixth

The problem with the long title usually only relevant to volume 1.

Just like something; "I became adventure so I can meet a girl in dungeon" and the issue was resolved in volume 1 because now he had met a girl in dungeon, become friend, and go adventure together, and the volume 2-10 will about how he became a god.

Agreed. Though I guess that's more an issue with the serial nature of LNs. When they're pitched, the author only knows where he's going for the first volume, and then is forced to come up with more content for the next volumes.

The most preposterous example of this I can think of is To Aru Majutsu NO Index.

That's why the first volume of long LN series is usually the most compelling and thematically tight one, only to devolve into trite, recycled crap that doesn't seem to know what to do with itself as the series goes on, I believe.

Wandering Soul · 2016-07-10, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Why didn't the Quest for Fluffy Things win?

I probably would have chosen that as the winner based on just the title.

felix · 2016-07-10, 19:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by bakato

Light Novel Contest Overwhelmed with Alternate World Entries

Quote:

In fact, the 1st place Grand Prix prize, which included publication of the story and 1,000,000 yen (about $9925.80 USD), was won by a story about traveling to an alternate world titled, "The Chronicle of the Male Virgin Who Travels to the Alternate World Chiirem [cheat + harem] and Gains Healing Magic."

Ugh. Lame.

That actually sounds awesome. It smells of sweet sweet parody and sarcasm.

Anyone know if it's translated anywhere?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Oh good. Get rekt. It was like a clogged toilet overflowing with shit.

It does feel like it's the only type of fantasy we get these days doesn't it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

I'm of the opinion that a lot of 'isekai' works could be reworked with minimal effort into a non-isekai work, and very little would have changed in the overall plot.

At a fundamental level isekai solves a few very difficult problems:

First, it avoids any exposition and introductions by boiling it down to just "Virgin from Japan desu!" and "drop in from the sky" effect. This saves a lot of headache since you can just do a virgin drop right in the middle of the plot with out much worry of it not making sense. In addition..
two, allows the author to just dive right into his harem fantasy shit -err I mean main plot.
Three, it cleverly hides the entire character background though indirection by waving "male virgin" a few times in our faces (sometimes NEET and otaku too). It's a bit like "amnesia", "summoning", and the "lone orphan" pitch in that the character has no family business, no relatives, no friends he needs to worry about, no future plans he needs to worry about, nobody to worry about him and nobody for him to worry about. This mostly helps in him having very clear cut decision making which makes for interesting reading.... but in this case it's probably more useful for the author so he doesn't have to give a shit about all of that rather then a narrative tool.

So in summary, yes of course, it can "trivially" be changed to non isekai (maybe that's part of what motivated the ban?) but, it implies a bit more work. It's not too much more work, at most the character might need to lose a few relatives (maybe even a few secondary characters need to be sacrifices in a first few chapters) and depending on how badly you want to wrap his entire backstory up you might need to do at most a story loop. By loop I mean where he goes back to where he started after some development and decides to move forward with whatever "decitions" you want him to move forward with. Then you're basically in the same boat as a isekai, only the isekai takes two sentences to do all that (that's the magic of male virgins for you

).

To be fair I think most of the isekai effect of lets not give a shit and just get on with the main parts, is what the readers want too. It's just maybe this has been overdone now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixth

The problem with the long title usually only relevant to volume 1.

Just like something; "I became adventure so I can meet a girl in dungeon" and the issue was resolved in volume 1 because now he had met a girl in dungeon, become friend, and go adventure together, and the volume 2-10 will about how he became a god.

Dunno about the novel but funny you used that as an example. I think, at least for the manga, the later arcs all change the title accordingly. Touche?

Marcus H. · 2016-07-10, 21:02

By the way, manga is also getting more revenge series too.
I wonder why those concepts aren't controlled somehow.

RRW · 2016-07-11, 02:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

By the way, manga is also getting more revenge series too.
I wonder why those concepts aren't controlled somehow.

you don't compare "sudden increase of specific new entry in the market " with "domination of specific new entry in the market"

Obelisk ze Tormentor · 2016-07-11, 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Short Story Contest Bans 'Traveling to an Alternate World' Fantasy

Good. The next step should be to ban “harem magical school with an MC who has a hidden talent”. That theme has been overused to hell and back. If they want to make action-adventure, they can give us something more like Full Metal Panic!, Parasyte, Darker than Black or Terror in Resonance, etc. Yes, they are flawed works, but at the very least they don't have bland audience/self-insert characters as MCs (and many girls don't compete to win MCs' affection). We have actual characters in those works.

Cerilla · 2016-07-11, 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Good. The next step should be to ban “harem magical school with an MC who has a hidden talent”. That theme has been overused to hell and back. If they want to make action-adventure, they can give us something more like Full Metal Panic!, Parasyte, Darker than Black or Terror in Resonance, etc. Yes, they are flawed works, but at the very least they don't have bland audience/self-insert characters as MCs (and many girls don't compete to win MCs' affection). We have actual characters in those works.

Better yet, they should ban the "Ore tueee" thing both the Isekai and Battle-harem seems to have in common. It won't be easy to enforce, tho.

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix

Dunno about the novel but funny you used that as an example. I think, at least for the manga, the later arcs all change the title accordingly. Touche?

You mean Sword Oratoria? It is Railgun to Danmachi's Index.

---

Speaking of DanMachi and LN title, I would like to address this comment

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustHalls

Agreed. Though I guess that's more an issue with the serial nature of LNs. When they're pitched, the author only knows where he's going for the first volume, and then is forced to come up with more content for the next volumes.

Yeah, I agree that the editor and publisher is totally intentional with the the bad title. Danmachi has perfectly workable and narratively fitting original title of Familia Myth (see Wikipedia and actual Japanese source). But no! Use this tacky name that our audience will like and only relevant to beginning part of the piece instead! It's very appaling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustHalls

The most preposterous example of this I can think of is To Aru Majutsu NO Index.

Yeah, it is totally preposterous. That might be a roadblock to Kamachi in developing the story because he had to add Index in one way or another due to title. But I haven't read that far into Index novel, so I don't know if that is the case or not.

FateAnomaly · 2016-07-11, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Good. The next step should be to ban “harem magical school with an MC who has a hidden talent”. That theme has been overused to hell and back. If they want to make action-adventure, they can give us something more like Full Metal Panic!, Parasyte, Darker than Black or Terror in Resonance, etc. Yes, they are flawed works, but at the very least they don't have bland audience/self-insert characters as MCs (and many girls don't compete to win MCs' affection). We have actual characters in those works.

Totally agree with this.

Sixth · 2016-07-12, 09:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Good. The next step should be to ban “harem magical school with an MC who has a hidden talent”. That theme has been overused to hell and back. If they want to make action-adventure, they can give us something more like Full Metal Panic!, Parasyte, Darker than Black or Terror in Resonance, etc. Yes, they are flawed works, but at the very least they don't have bland audience/self-insert characters as MCs (and many girls don't compete to win MCs' affection). We have actual characters in those works.

Agreed with this. Kinda tired to see so-called untalented main character managed to make all girls wet their pants without doing anything.

felix · 2016-07-14, 18:34

If we're gonna go naming and shaming, I'll just add "stuck in VR MMO" nonsense to the list of things we could use less of.

I've yet to see one where the plot, aside from the first opening chapters doesn't just fall apart.

That said, worlds where they have "game-like" rules for comic reliaf or other purposes are generally interesting and nice.

Obelisk ze Tormentor · 2016-07-14, 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by felix

If we're gonna go naming and shaming, I'll just add "stuck in VR MMO" nonsense to the list of things we could use less of.

I've yet to see one where the plot, aside from the first opening chapters doesn't just fall apart.

I think Overlord actually got more and more interesting each chapter/episode. The author is actually smart enough to make the MC the "evil" non-human final boss with an army of colorful demonic characters under him from the get go. With that, other than presenting new conflict and new enemy, each new arc is also a ripe medium to flesh out certain characters, expand the new world they inhabit, build up the MC’s campaigning program to “rule” the said world slowly but surely, and deliver us more enjoyable character interactions and antics. After I watched the last episode of Overlord, I was left wanting to see a lot more from the characters and the world. Similar thing also applied to Log Horizon even though the MC is a bit more standard than Momonga. All that thanks to Log Horizon’s solid writing and endearing large cast. Oh, and .Hack/Sign is actually good if you’re not easily bored by characters having conversations.

Sadly, whenever people encounter "stuck in MMO"-theme, most of them will always be reminded of SAO. *sigh*

felix · 2016-07-15, 14:26

Overlord, Log Horizon, as well as No Game No Life, DanMachi, as well as various manga (eg. Not Lives) fall in the category of "worlds with game-like rules" for me. Because it's a case of aside from characters believing they are "maybe" in a VRMMO the world doesn't appear to be a VRMMO other then the rules it follows or presents to the characters (which are always inconsistent to mmo rules too).

This is kind of more clear in things like Upgrade Specialist in Another World, where the "protgonist" (if we can call him that) travels though the VRMMO to another dimension where he gets disintegrated and his soul along with the VRMMO tome of upgrading gets merged with another person of that world (allowing him to be subject to MMO upgrade rules). The world is not a VRMMO, the protagnist who dies is a VRMMO character and the real person at the same time, the rules of the world apply still to the new protagonist, but now there's also VRMMO rules that apply.

Series like Overlord, No Game No Life, Log Horizon and so forth are from my perspective part of that theme of Upgrade Specialist: "realworld merged with mmo" more so then "inside a VRMMO." But it's all very subjective, that just how I see it.

Akito Kinomoto · 2016-07-15, 17:16

I'm going to 2nd Overlord because it pretty much took the power fantasy to its logical conclusion. Also Momonga is the cutest Lich King ever

DevilHighDxD · 2016-07-16, 14:24

I wish they can ban "harem" as well but that will pretty much killed 99.99 percent of the entries.

Tempester · 2016-07-16, 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DevilHighDxD

I wish they can ban "harem" as well but that will pretty much killed 99.99 percent of the entries.

They're trying to promote more variety in the industry, not destroy it entirely.

Sheba · 2016-07-17, 01:37

Which is why cheap raildex infinite stratos knockoffs are unfortunately here to stay. And this is likely what the aspiring authors will turn to.

IceHism · 2016-07-17, 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

Which is why cheap raildex infinite stratos knockoffs are unfortunately here to stay. And this is likely what the aspiring authors will turn to.

I don't think it matters since they don't get popular anyways. Even the IS LNs aren't that popular.

Marcus H. · 2016-07-17, 03:16

The Raildex clone I know is Strike the Blood. Rental Magica is close to Index, but it came from roughly the same period.
As for IS, the series was hurt by the switch to a new illustrator and due to author-related issues.

2016-07-09, 12:37	Link #42
Sixth Hu Tao Join Date: Oct 2006	The problem with the long title usually only relevant to volume 1. Just like something; "I became adventure so I can meet a girl in dungeon" and the issue was resolved in volume 1 because now he had met a girl in dungeon, become friend, and go adventure together, and the volume 2-10 will about how he became a god. Last edited by Sixth; 2016-07-09 at 20:54.

2016-07-10, 21:02	Link #46
Marcus H. Princess or Plunderer? Join Date: May 2009 Location: the Philippines	By the way, manga is also getting more revenge series too. I wonder why those concepts aren't controlled somehow. __________________ Continuing: White Sand Aquatope (6/24) and Vanitas S2 (0/12), The Vampire Dies in No Time S2 and Bofuri S2 (3/12). 2021: Restaurant to Another World S2 (3/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/12) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12). 2022: Yuusha Yamemasu (1/12), Kaguya-sama S3, Mob Psycho 100 III (Oct06), Bleach: 1000 Year Blood War (2/13) and Chainsaw Man (6/12). Spring 2023: Yamada-kun to Lv999 no Koi wo Suru, Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear Punch! (4/12), Skip to Loafer, Tonikaku Kawaii S2 (1/12), Otonari ni Ginga (5/12) and Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia (3/13). Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList. Anime List Status ~ Watching: 33. Completed: 468. Plan to watch: 39.

2016-07-14, 18:34	Link #52
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	If we're gonna go naming and shaming, I'll just add "stuck in VR MMO" nonsense to the list of things we could use less of. I've yet to see one where the plot, aside from the first opening chapters doesn't just fall apart. That said, worlds where they have "game-like" rules for comic reliaf or other purposes are generally interesting and nice. __________________

2016-07-15, 14:26	Link #54
felix sleepyhead Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: event horizon	Overlord, Log Horizon, as well as No Game No Life, DanMachi, as well as various manga (eg. Not Lives) fall in the category of "worlds with game-like rules" for me. Because it's a case of aside from characters believing they are "maybe" in a VRMMO the world doesn't appear to be a VRMMO other then the rules it follows or presents to the characters (which are always inconsistent to mmo rules too). This is kind of more clear in things like Upgrade Specialist in Another World, where the "protgonist" (if we can call him that) travels though the VRMMO to another dimension where he gets disintegrated and his soul along with the VRMMO tome of upgrading gets merged with another person of that world (allowing him to be subject to MMO upgrade rules). The world is not a VRMMO, the protagnist who dies is a VRMMO character and the real person at the same time, the rules of the world apply still to the new protagonist, but now there's also VRMMO rules that apply. Series like Overlord, No Game No Life, Log Horizon and so forth are from my perspective part of that theme of Upgrade Specialist: "realworld merged with mmo" more so then "inside a VRMMO." But it's all very subjective, that just how I see it. __________________

2016-07-16, 14:24	Link #56
DevilHighDxD Zero Two Best waifu 2018 Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Living the NEET dream Age: 27	I wish they can ban "harem" as well but that will pretty much killed 99.99 percent of the entries. __________________

2016-07-17, 01:37	Link #58
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	Which is why cheap raildex infinite stratos knockoffs are unfortunately here to stay. And this is likely what the aspiring authors will turn to.

2016-07-17, 03:16	Link #60
Marcus H. Princess or Plunderer? Join Date: May 2009 Location: the Philippines	The Raildex clone I know is Strike the Blood. Rental Magica is close to Index, but it came from roughly the same period. As for IS, the series was hurt by the switch to a new illustrator and due to author-related issues. __________________ Continuing: White Sand Aquatope (6/24) and Vanitas S2 (0/12), The Vampire Dies in No Time S2 and Bofuri S2 (3/12). 2021: Restaurant to Another World S2 (3/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/12) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12). 2022: Yuusha Yamemasu (1/12), Kaguya-sama S3, Mob Psycho 100 III (Oct06), Bleach: 1000 Year Blood War (2/13) and Chainsaw Man (6/12). Spring 2023: Yamada-kun to Lv999 no Koi wo Suru, Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear Punch! (4/12), Skip to Loafer, Tonikaku Kawaii S2 (1/12), Otonari ni Ginga (5/12) and Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia (3/13). Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList. Anime List Status ~ Watching: 33. Completed: 468. Plan to watch: 39.