2012-08-08, 11:22 | Link #19301 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
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Cauee its too dangerous to even let her use magic thus they didn't care much as long as the magic library is still functioning. Index herself is the hidden ace of Necesarius thus the magic controller exist and maybe the defense system is different from pendex. The defense system only activates pendex when the owner is in trouble but the pendex program itself is entirely different thus when imagine breaker destroy the defense system that cost pain to index they didn't care much about her being able to use magic or not cause if she can freely use magic then her standing in the field is almost victory on her side.
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2012-08-08, 11:38 | Link #19302 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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But that is the point, no one cares if she is able to use magic or not.
I mean, it would be really dangerous if she could, but I don't think Kamijou is the kind of guy that cares at all. If she was being restricted by something he would fight for her right to have something. It's just like everyone wants her to be the cute pet and stay there looking good.
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2012-08-08, 11:39 | Link #19303 |
Death to the infidels!
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: in a world of pain!
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If I remember correctly, it says in volume 18 that if the Index had not these defense systems, it would have to have limbs hacked off and eyes sealed to ensure that she got out of hand, I think what was said by the queen when Styil is almost attacking Laura.
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2012-08-08, 12:41 | Link #19306 |
We're Back
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Redgrave City
Age: 35
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If Index can use magic freely then she would be treated as a living weapon. For now her main role is to support them by analysis of the enemy's magic as well as providing information. If she can use magic freely she would become a living weapon in the eyes of the church, as well as one of the most dangerous entities to all the other churches.
Hell, I'm betting that's one of the conditions that allows Necessarius to gain access to the Vatican's libraries for their books, is that they 'swear' she wouldn't be able to use their magic. But more importantly, does Index herself want to use magic? Does she particular care if she doesn't become this ultimate weapon? I know Touma certainly wouldn't want that for her, especially since it would mean Necessarius would keep her on a far tighter leash and put her in the path of danger more often.
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Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2012-08-08 at 12:54. |
2012-08-08, 14:05 | Link #19307 | ||
Nympholept
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wonderland.
Age: 31
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There's nothing like "discovered another module" anywhere in that volume but more like Pendex is composed of many devices. Also, that auto-defense system is essentially just "Pendex using magic" ... and Pendex could use magic in vol 18 = it wasn't destroyed but just damaged, it's just as simple as that. ... ok, I'm sure you're going to quote me with the epilogue of Vol 1 about that and I'll just answer by saying : "you're taking subjective comments from the characters too highly : just because Styil thought Johan's Pen was destroyed doesn't mean it was actually the case (it was just damage, sir), ... also he never said it was "completely destroyed but just "destroyed" ". Oh, damn I'll do it myself Quote:
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2012-08-08, 15:08 | Link #19308 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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I don't even know what you are saying and rambling about.
Halfway through your post (halfway? At the begin actually) you assumed what I would say and started discussing alone against someone that does not exist :2 I never said pendex was destroyed, I said the defensive mechanism was destroyed, and it was. You could say it was "damaged" but it was "damaged beyond repair and losing the ability to function" which is actually the same thing as "destroyed". I said they assumed the defensive mechanism was using the mana, therefore not letting anything left to Index and once it was destroyed they assumed she would get her mana back. Which wasn't the case. They know she still have the John Pen mode, they know they only destroyed the defensive collar. I was just wondering why they never thought she must have something else that is able to use magic because indeed her mana wasn't coming back. I would guess that having something that allows her to use magic, regardless if only the church has access or not, IS pretty dangerous. Which turns to be true when Fiamma steals the controller and everyone is like "fuck fuck fuck fuck" Nutshell: My point is, they shouldn't be surprised when Fiamma got the pen controller because it was obvious she still had something controlling her.
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Last edited by Saishy; 2012-08-08 at 15:20. |
2012-08-08, 16:01 | Link #19309 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
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Quote:
Assuming that Styl and the others think that her mana will return but if it doesn't return then they will think its because she doesn't have mana (which is weird) but isn't that what she really is? a container for the magic library. She is not a weapon (in normal way) in the eyes of the church (for the lower guys) She is a treasure and a compilation of magical books thus she not being able to wield magic is a perfect thing for them because she won't be dangerous on her own. Thus Styl and the others (again) probably believe that its fine and alright or its rather normal and even if they assume that it should be returning but originally she was meant to not use mana. So why ask if she can use magic if she is meant not to use it? They probably think that the defense mechanism is the source of her mana that time or rather its the fault which she can use magic. They can think like that if she still can't use mana after removing it. Well that's what they probably want to believe. Specially the ones close to her. Thus they are surprised on what happen in vol 18 when she uses magic and turn into pendex again because they "thought" it was destroyed by imagine breaker which apparently not. Maybe IB destroyed the defense mechanism or probably a different set of mechanism at all or maybe its just safe setting for her memory or lock setting for the magic books, not sure on this one. Style and the lower guys probably can't read or even even know a thing of what transpires inside the head of the leaders of the factions. Like Laura and the royal bloods. They are just pawns and pawns are meant to be used and not think about it.
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Last edited by tsunade666; 2012-08-08 at 17:18. |
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2012-08-08, 16:21 | Link #19310 |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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As you said they know pendex is still working, kamijou destroyed two things according to the pendex, the collar which made the whole memory problem and the defensive mechanism.
Besides those two I only remember the remote control as another revealed mechanism of the pen mode. We can safely assume Pendex does not use mana, they knew about it and that she can't use mana and Styil is a specialist in mana flow as he say when they are inside Misawa cram school, it would be stupid to assume he did not notice an usage of mana by pendex. (By mana I'm assuming the refined life force, since all living beings have a kind of rough magic force that is their life as you can see besides the explanation of why imagine breaker don't kill people on touch. It could be possible to pendex to operate on pure life force) When the defensive mechanism is used she uses mana in large scales which to Kanzaki and Styil shock Kamijou replies that the fact Index can't use mana is a lie made by the church. Later on we see Stiyl got very upset when he find about the remote control thing, but if we see the fact that pendex alone is not blocking her mana it was obvious she still had more mechanisms inside pendex. I would guess Stiyl would like to find anything else the church might have done to her, but he was happy enough about the destruction of the first collar mechanism and never showed interest in researching further on.
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2012-08-08, 16:58 | Link #19311 | |
Nympholept
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wonderland.
Age: 31
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Ok, I'll calm down and think of the possibilities why you didn't get what I meant.
1- My apologies, I think I haven't explained my point well enough, but now I understand where the problem lies. That defensive system was just a part of Pendex that let her use magic/grimmoires to defend herself, and maintaining all those defensive layers is what kept her from using magic according to the 3rd person POV ... and that's how it is, the whole point of Pendex is about using the magic instead of Index. If Pendex is destroyed then any of those defensive layers won't exist anymore, it's just as simple as that. And no Styil really believed that Pendex was destroyed for good = no more Pendex => no more defensive layers to maintain => no more things that drained her mana. It was only the higher who knew that wasn't the case 2- ok quote me where they said : "the defensive system was destroyed" and not "Pendex was destroyed" or "the collar was destroyed" Quote:
1-Styil didn't know, so yes he'd go "WTH happened?! You damn Laura Why did you made her suffer?!" 2-Touma lost his memory so "HTW should he know what Pendex is in the first place" 3-Laura and Elizard knew AND they also remained stoic knowing about the thing 4-Carissa went "OH, crap he got the controller this is bad! Now he can control Pendex!" and not "WTH is going on?"
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2012-08-08, 17:23 | Link #19312 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In my room
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I think the people who know Pendex still exist is Laura and the royal bloods. Styl and the lower guys doesn't know about it. And I think Styl "probably" believe that its destroyed and thus Index was alright again and she is back to normal and probably can start using magic but her using magic is bad thus when she remains the same as can't use magic. All was fine for them as long as she's alright. The original objective of their suffering isn't really pendex but the pain that Index receive while nearing the end of the year and its still not pass a year so we can't confirm if the thing IB destroyed "the collar" is the source of Pendex or just her suffering or its probably one of the messed up mechanism the church installed on her. But for Styl, Kaori and Touma. Index is not suffering anymore of her memory being erased thus they are alright with it. They didn't actually care with Pendex because its not their objective. Their objective is to save Index. Pendex was just a defense mechanism activate to protect Index when the "collar" was threaten of being destroyed. It didn't confirmed that Pendex and Collar is the same thing.
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2012-08-08, 17:49 | Link #19313 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Ok this can get long so for simplicity sake let's assume a common point that we can both agree and go from there:
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So for simplicity sake let's focus on Styil. The facts: - Styil believed Pendex was using all of Index's mana. - Styil believed the destruction of Pendex would stop the mana drain. - Styil believed Pendex was no more. So what happens from here on is that Index's mana does not go back, yet Styil shows no sign of concern as if Pendex was still active or not. Before we had the Index's collar (the memory function) in her mouth at full view for anyone to see, the only reason nobody discovered was that nobody actually thought of looking for it. Nobody thought the church had done anything to her, everybody thought the memory problem was to blame. That is like If your wood table is being eaten by termites and I say the birds are pecking it, you will never be able to find the insects because you are simply not looking for them. You will only be able to try to scare any bird that approaches the table even if just a simply examination would be able to tell that the termites are to blame. But after the "supposed Pendex destruction" Styil knew the church had done something. Then the only and unique question I impose, based on those facts, is: "When even after Styil believed Pendex was gone, Index's mana wasn't coming back. Why he never tried a thoroughly examination of Index?" Edit: You made an answer regarding this in the previous post: Quote:
- Magicians are able to sense if another person is a magician just by sensing it's mana, because it is in greater amount than a normal person, even if slightly. - A normal person is able to use magic. - Index don't have mana, therefore is unable to perform magic. If her mana would go back to a normal person level, I'm absolutely sure Styil would be able to notice.
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2012-08-08, 18:11 | Link #19314 | ||
Nympholept
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Wonderland.
Age: 31
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oh well, I already posted the quote, this was in Styil's letter you know Quote:
: If you carefully read my post above you shouldn't have asked this -_- ... EDIT : oh ok that's what your edit was for, my bad again ...
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2012-08-08, 18:16 | Link #19315 |
Angelerator
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Canada
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I thought that mana had to be 'made' in a person. They have to go through all those rituals to refine it their life force into mana right? If that's the case then Index wouldn't have any mana simply because she hasn't gone through the process of making more.
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2012-08-08, 18:37 | Link #19316 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 34
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Also, Index knows the techniques and process on the body that needs to be done in order to perform magic thus she can execute Sheol Fear and Spell Intercept even if those requires no mana to be performed. |
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2012-08-08, 18:42 | Link #19318 | |
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Of course magicians can produce more mana and refine their life force better, but normal people also produce mana.
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2012-08-08, 21:10 | Link #19319 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Its like minerals that need to be mined but still needs refinement to be used. Now that makes me confused though the answer should be obvious that the church did something so she can't use magic because every living being should have that raw material that can be used for magic. And index being not been able to produce mana is a mystery indeed and she herself that knows everything about magic just believe that she can't produce it thus making her perfect container for magic books is absurd. I think not every magician can feel magical powers from the others. Styl is just sensitive or skilled about it but even if his skilled it doesn't mean he is sure on the cause of why Index can't use magic just like how they didn't know and believe the lie the church gave them as an explanation.
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2012-08-08, 21:19 | Link #19320 | |
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Join Date: Sep 2011
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It was one thing when he was slipped out by Birdway, but he'll be dam*ed before he lets an concerned mother interfere with his plans. Also, didn't Touma just destroy the reason the memory wipe occurs and not the safety mode itself?
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action, dengeki bunko, fantasy, light novels, science fiction, shounen |
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